A discussion on this year's class of wide receivers

I feel you. The player that comes closest to doing what you want while still fitting Lazor's system in my opinion is Jaelen Strong.

There's a little bit of East Coast bias among Dolphins fans so not many of the people on this board acknowledge that he's got just as impressive if not more impressive catches in traffic as DeVante Parker. Yet he runs routes and looks compelling that way, creates separation that the defense didn't intend to give him.

 

I agree that the receiver unit is strong and deep..Just have Parker better than Strong..I see Strong as a 2nd rounder.

 

Yeah, I'd assume Hartline gone and don't think it's much to replace his skillset. Completely agree on Wallace if you cut him you better have a plan. IF we plan to draft a first round receiver I'd just prefer keep him for the year as he does offer a lot to the offense outside of his targeted passes. Not completely against doubling down on WR's in 1st or 3rd/4th.

I'm going to look more into Agholor.

Truthfully I just would like a phsyical receiver with size. I don't want a lumbering type of guy someone who can move. That is what is appealing about White and Strong. I see that making a big difference for our offense. Completely losing our speed element isn't a recipe for success.

I do think if you can address OG via FA (Boling/Franklin); resign Clay/Odrick; and a potential CB via FA it wouldn't be outrageous to address WR twice in draft.

 

Wheres Dorsett? No love?

 

Not in the top group. He's tiny and if I'm going with a size deficient guy that gets open and makes plays then I'm going with Tyler Lockett all day.

 

When I first saw Tyler Lockett play this year, I immediately thought what he did with his routes and how he plucked the ball was a great fit for the Dolphins. I don't know if they want a guy who is that small, but they have apparently shown some interest in him.

 

Miami will probably be looking at:

1) Trading up for Amari Cooper
2) Taking Kevin White or Devin Smith at 14
3) Taking Nelson Agholor in R2

Remember this is Mike Tannenbaum. Trading up to get a player they're convinced is awesome is right in his wheel house.

 

My 4 realistic options in the draft at WR (1st/2nd round):

1. DeVante Parker (reminds me of AJ Green)
2. Kevin White (reminds me of a taller Golden Tate. Phenomenal after the run)
3. Jaelen Strong (don't have a comparison yet, gotta watch more film but I like what I've seen so far)
4. Devin Smith (reminds me of a better, younger, cheaper Mike Wallace. I think hes a 2nd round grade and I see him as a great #2 deep threat, so I would still want a true #1 receiver ahead of him. But, I love the fact that he has ball skills on top of speed/route running. Something Mike Wallace lacks a lot of)

If I were the Fins GM, if we can bring back or core pieces (Odrick, Delmas, Satele, maybe D-Thomas/Shelby, etc...) and free up some more cap room by making some cuts (ie. Wallace, Hartline, Ellerbe) to add some more free agent depth...I would almost be tempted to take a WR back to back in rd1 and rd2. Could you imagine a WR corps that consisted of say DeVante Parker/Kevin White, Devin Smith, and Jarvis Landry...plus a few other guys as role players and a couple of solid TEs? Those would be 3 extremely young, talented studs, that could be here for 10+ years, obviously as long as they live up to the hype.

 

I agree with this except for the part about cutting Wallace. Ever since OJ McDuffie left we've been getting rid of "underperforming" number 1 WRs before we have a replacement ready (Chambers, Ginn, Boston, Booker, Marshall) . I know each decision can be justified, but I am sick of the phins being forced to rely on physically limited receivers (Gadsen, Hartline etc.) and then having to roll the dice on injury or character concers (eg Boston, Marshall) or to roll the dice on high draft picks (Y Green, Ginn).

Please can we try finding Wallace's replacement while Wallace is on the team. I would rather pay Wallace too much than to go into next season without a solid replacement that we know will actually replace his production.

 

i think that is a valid point. wallace makes the team better and without him, even if you replace him with a high draft pick the team may suffer greatly for it. i would keep wallace and if jaelen strong is sitting their in the 2nd i wouldn't hesitate to grab him.

 

If Devin Smith is already better than Wallace then he should be taken at 14, not a 2nd rounder

 

I thought in this offense all the WR's were supposed to be the same so that all of them could run any route at anytime. What happened to that?

 

Ideally, the coach adapts to the players as much as the other way around.

 

Damn Devin Smith is all the way up to 14 already?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article9335153.html

Right up Tanny's alley

 

I would think about Devin Smith at #14 overall as a replacement for Brian Hartline.

Based on some film study I'd say that position that Hartline plays is running a LOT of straight line routes where a guy has the chance to be compelling by virtue of his speed. Hartline also had a lot of one on one coverage with those straight line routes, but generally speaking he's just fast enough to stay covered in one-on-one on those routes.

Don't necessarily confuse straight line routes for vertical routes. Miami uses a lot of deep diagonals and shallow crosses as well. Those qualify as routes where you're running in a straight line at a good distance and so your speed has a chance to make you compelling on the route.

Other routes that Miami runs with Hartline involve speed outs and other high speed horizontal breaks, as opposed to Hartline's bread and butter under Mike Sherman which involved a lot of comebacks and curls, breaking back to the football underneath tight man coverage after Hartline gets the guy to turn his hips. Miami does that some but not much anymore. Now they need a guy to execute things at high speed because they're trying to get favorable spacing, trying to flood areas of the field or free up guys to come underneath, etc.

And then you have straight up RAC routes like screens and stuff.

Devin Smith is a hell of a compelling pure RUNNER. He can be compelling running high speeds all over the place, and he finishes catches. He looks pretty good on screens, too. So I do think Devin Smith would be really compelling in this system even if they keep Mike Wallace.

The other guy that would be compelling would be Nelson Agholor.

 

I think Cooper may turn in a "average" combine in the sense that he is not going to wow people with freakish athletic ability. If he starts to slide at all I could definitely see a move up for him.

Definitely agree on Agholor though…he is a great fit and a good player. I thought Hardy would have been a great fit system wise as well but he turned out to be quite a bit smaller than what he was listed as..enough to make me question his ability to play on the outside.

 

I know this is counter-intuitive based on the guy Miami drafted a year ago Jarvis Landry, but I think the remaining wide receiver spots in this offense really fit guys who are physically compelling as opposed to guys who show unusual polish in their route running and ability to separate versus man coverage.

That's just my sense from the tape watch of Miami's offense.

 

Trying to read reports about his Senior bowl, concerns about press coverage and route separation. Seeing anything about those? I have a feeling he will rise if he runs at the combine. I see your post about this offense not needing polished route running but hey, I'm thinking long term if Lazor were to leave

 

I read that some teams are liking Kevin White as the #1 WR in this draft over Amari Cooper.

 

How many chances have the positional assistants gotten? Most players we've had since Philbin took over that had a mind of their own have been jettisoned. Chris McCain had some off field issues in college. Only teams that offered him a UDFA contract were us and the Rams. Our defensive assistants seemed to handle him okay. He was just dinged up too much as a rookie. He sure flashed some good skills though when he was able to play.

 

I'd rather wait on a WR too. Man, why can teams like the Packers and Steelers consistently find good WRs from the 2nd round on, but we cannot? Other than Landry and possibly Matthews.

I agree, we should just go for the BPA regardless of position in the 1st. We know the BPA won't be a QB, which is the last position we'd need in the 1st anyway.

 

I think its because it may take some time or amari to adapt to the nfl level, and size speed ratio.

 

Doubt Amari is there When we pick but if by some miracle he is there and we pass.. I will cry.. This guy is Julio Jones 2.0. Bring Amari back to Miami!

 

He's always been a guy that stands out in that unit for the pure fact that he's physically very gifted. Big, big-framed, explosive, fast. What also stands out to me after Justin Holman started throwing the football is that he can catch an NFL ball with NFL velocity. Holman has zero touch, zero faculty over how much zip he puts on the football. He rockets everything at 100 mph and his pure velocity and throwing ability are actually impressive, more so than Blake Bortles. With that kind of ball, you start to see which of the guys can catch a pro football and which might have trouble. Rannell Hall is going to have trouble. Breshad Perriman looks up to the task.

That said the talk lately has been of Perriman going mid-1st round and I just don't know that I see that. I see him more or less part of the swarm of receivers once you get beyond the likes of Dorial Green-Beckham, Amari Cooper and Kevin White. And from that swarm I think I would tend to favor Devin Smith, Jaelen Strong and Nelson Agholor. I kind of suspect one of the reasons Perriman is getting a lot of airplay recently is because of his dad, Brett Perriman. But Breshad is physically very gifted so he deserves praise.

I'm probably being a little hard on DeVante Parker because the foot injury probably did have an effect on the way he looks on film. I don't have DeVante in that group with DGB, White and Cooper...but he belongs up there probably with Smith, Strong and Agholor. Reality is Parker and Strong are slightly different flavors of the same drink and instead of differentiating them to the point of making one look much worse than the other, they're probably just both pretty good.

I would not compare Amari Cooper to Julio Jones.

 

Another thing about Breshad Perriman. He's always been on radar for people that pay attention to what's going on down at UCF. Here's what I wrote about him on October 10th, 2014.

http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...cts-for-2015&p=2431416&viewfull=1#post2431416

Considering the aesthetic positives you see on a Breshad Perriman in terms of his being cut from stone to look like a receiver (tall AND thick, long arms, big hands, etc), having body language like a receiver, having explosiveness and some speed...the only thing holding back his grade to me is you'd like to see him actually make good on that potential more often. Physically he probably does stack up to a little bit of a poor man's Julio Jones. But you want to see him literally do more. You know, break that tackle, make that guy miss, outrun that 4.6 guy, adjust to that football, don't step out of bounds on your route, finish that easy catch, finish that challenging catch, come back to that football, etc. There's so much potential there, you just want to see him execute better.

Some of that isn't his fault because Holman really isn't very accurate or a great decision-maker, and the offense itself wasn't exactly structured to feed him the ball. But some of it was his fault, too.

Personally I really wanted to see how Perriman was going to run in Indy before I could put him in the group of nine I already labeled. I have a feeling he'll do well but I don't have a sense for how well.

 

Like I said I really wanted to get hold of some Combine data before I did a re-shuffling of my receiver rankings. People can sh-t all over that if they want but the Combine is important, especially for folks who do not have access to a database of campus testing results fed to teams by strength and conditioning coaches around the FBS.

But Breshad definitely has the potential to get up into the middle of that top 10.

 

jmo, but folks who mock the combine process, are has beens, or never should of been's.

 

But I do want to reiterate something I've said many times.

If Dorial Green-Beckham is available at pick #14, your decision is whether you'd take him or not. He's the only elite talent that I think has a chance of making it to that pick. He's the best wide receiver prospect in this draft. His story is incredible, both good and bad.

So every time someone asks me who I take at pick #14, the first question I'm going to ask them is, "Is Dorial Green-Beckham available?"

That doesn't mean I definitely take him. I'm not 100% decided on that yet. But it is the first question I tackle.

 

Doubt Philbin takes DGB. He'll have to grow solid matter inside the fleshy pouch between his legs for that to happen. Might as well take DGB off the board for us.

CK what are your thoughts on our first round pick and WR? My opinion Keving White and Amari Cooper will be long gone before 14, Devante Parker too probably. Leaving Strong and Devin Smith as the other likely WR for that spot. Do you think those 2 players warrant that pick, or is the team better off going elsewhere here? I see you really like Agholor for the Phins, would you take him at 14?

 

Hopefully Hickey overrules him...I mean he is the GM.

 

Depending, this draft might be a good one to trade back if there is a chance.

 

Nelson Agholor growing on me FAST. Hadn't seen much USC this season. Definitely a fan of this kid though, enjoying the vids of him that are available. Sudden, sharp, long arms, snatches it, makes plays over the middle and over the top. Has that versatile, polished NFL look. Not sure who I prefer between him and Devin Smith. Curious to check out their measurables this week!

 

Really warming up to Green-Beckham at 14. There's a pretty big risk involved, but the reward is, IMO, way bigger. His ceiling is that of a top 5 WR in the league, that enough makes him worthy of being taken at 14. And if you compare the risk of taking him at that spot with Dion Jordan being taken third overall, it is much smaller. Jordan was a much rawer prospect who needed time to develop while DGB can already start from day 1 and produce right away. I think if he's available, it is possible we take a good hard look at him for a couple of reasons:

1) Philbin no doubt realizes he's on his last legs and needs some game-changing players to make a difference if we're going to make the playoffs. He might be willing to take more risks than he did in the past because of this.
2) Even if Philbin/Hickey do not like DGB, Tannenbaum looks like is here to stay and if he sees him as a can't-miss prospect, I doubt he'll let him pass just to please everyone else.

It is possible, though, that he'll be the first WR taken... but in that case, we'll likely have an Amari Cooper or Kevin White fall to us. I think WR will be the pick at 14, the talent at that position is just too good to pass up, and it is a big need so that the offense can take the next step.

 

I think you have to keep your options open because as you say Kevin White and Amari Cooper could be gone, the Dolphins could be turned off by Dorial Green-Beckham (which would be the wrong call, IMO) and they might not have a high enough grade on DeVante Parker to justify taking him (I currently do not).

I do really like Devin Smith and I really like Jaelen Strong. I think Strong is going to show up better at the Combine than people think. At 6'2" & 217 lbs, don't be surprised if he breaks into the 4.4's and has a 40 inch vertical. His sports performance coach at Arizona State swears he's in the 4.4's and said he did a 39 inch vertical and 10'7" broad jump with his legs deadened after a summer's worth of conditioning. He believes he could do more along the lines of a 42 inch vertical, but verticals at the Combine do have a way of ending up lower than at pro days for whatever reason. I think I saw Alen Dumonjic point out that Jaelen Strong would fit well in an offense where you throw to a spot because he's a reliable route runner, and you know he can go up and get the football. I think I would agree with that, and I do think Miami uses its outside receivers in that manner so it's a fit.

On the other hand, Devin Smith is a wonderful deep threat and he's definitely more than just a deep threat. I think he does compare to Odell Beckham. I think you get him thinking that he can replace Mike Wallace by 2016.

Nelson Agholor is a guy I love as well but you can get him in the 2nd round. Perfect fit for Miami's offense. And he's a very high character guy. Very high. Talent + character, hard to go wrong.

Miami's most immediate need is probably at corner though. Let's be truthful about that. Even if they cut Brian Hartline, he was no more than the #4 option in the passing offense this year after Wallace, Landry and Clay. Even if they cut Brandon Gibson as well, he was #5 and everyone's been waiting for Rishard Matthews to get more chances anyway.

But at corner you have Cortland Finnegan old, hasn't been able to stay healthy for a few years, hasn't played particularly well in more than a few years, set to make $5.5 million which is way too much. The Dolphins are probably going to have to cut him. That's a 1000 snap, every down player at corner. He could play on the perimeter and he could also move inside and play slot. Jimmy Wilson is a UFA and they should let him walk because he's really not very good. He's a nickel player, a 500 snap type. So they're set to lose a LOT of snaps at corner, and they have NO idea if Jamar Taylor and/or Will Davis can step up and take some of those snaps. Jamar Taylor hasn't been able to stay healthy in the two years he's been here, and he hasn't played very well even when he does get on the field. And the only person on the team that seems to think Will Davis can play is Kevin Coyle. Nobody else does (I have that on pretty good authority).

So if Miami is staring at a Trae Waynes, they have to STRONGLY consider it. He's 6'1" and has long arms which he uses VERY well to annoy the hell out of receivers physically, not just at the jam either. He can run like the wind and will test well at the Combine. He's strong. He's got that rare ability to stay in phase with the receiver while he either looks at the quarterback to read his drop or looks up for the football. He keep his hip on the receiver's hip while locating the football and often engages with his hands while doing so. It's usually not going to be called pass interference if you're looking up for the ball. People think he's just a press-man corner but that's such a misperception. He's a Cover 4 corner, which translates really well to Miami's system. He excels in off or press or bail, because he has the kind of understanding of what offenses are going to run at him that you need in a Cover 4. Overall he's just a really good corner. I love that he annoys the sh-t out of receivers to the point they either get flagged for offensive pass interference, or should have been flagged for it.

So you have to keep him in mind even if you're a little focused on the receivers.