Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

so didn't Bill Cowher

 

What Cowher said though, was that stealing signals was an active sport but not the videotaping part. What Cowher is doing is downplaying it, but the video does add a significant advantage (you can go back and sync the plays and review etc.) that Cowher wants to downplay.

 

Jerry Rice, in a video released the day before Deflategate (and Rice is very vocal about the Pats cheating) admits to cheating.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/06/rice-admits-to-illegal-use-of-stickum/


So, asterisk next to your own records, then, Jerruh?

 

NFL may have less competitive integrity than the NCAA. They lose more credibility by the day.

 

The argument is now: everyone else was cheating, therefore Belichick is innocent?

 

No. It's about the asterisks and all that crap. He's guilty, and paid the price (lost a draft pick, $500k). It's okay to acknowledge he was a cheater, and that others were too. It's singling them out. Again, BB's biggest sin was not stopping when the league told all teams to stop. It was arrogant. And he paid the price.

But if we want to talk about asterisks, we now need them on Jerry's records too. Terrell Owens, best WR ever! :P

 

See Meisty, it's like that time that Todd got in trouble for making valentines day cards for kids on the photocopier at work. Sure, they let him get away with it for years but he kept doing it after they him to stop, and that he was too old to be in elementary school on valentines day.

 

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand that and you play by different rules you're not playing the same game as everybody else so the asterisk is warranted

 

They were all doing the same stuff, dude. That's the point. It's not that BB is innocent, it's that everyone is guilty. If BB needs an asterisk, then everyone else does too.

 

I think that's the point JJ was making. Everyone was doing it, not just the Patriots. JJ said it was rampant. Calls out specific names of people who did it that he saw do it. If these deserve an asterisk doesn't Jerry Rice's records now all deserve asterisks too?

Not directed at you lmeister, but I think the asterisk argument is the dumbest thing in sports by the way. Steroids in baseball etc. It's silly. Asterisks for records in 16 games vs. 12 game seasons, etc. etc. Records are what they are, and you take them with whatever happened.

 

I'm still not sure which part of that exonerates Bill Belichick

 

So what's the problem?

 

Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, and Barry Bonds approve this message.


But they ain't getting in anyway.

 

Sad thing about this is there were a lot of cheaters & other bad stuff going on in baseball even before the steroid era and no one made a big deal out of it. Why not then but now? Bunch of hypocrites. The steroid era (Sammy vs Mark HR race) saved baseball in which many people forget.

 

Huge giants fan, I will ride with BB to the ground. But I enjoy him not being in the HOF. I want all the all-time greats to be out of the HOF like Rose, and BB. Baseball rode the steroids to the peak and hugely benefited from it. They were on the death throes until that HR race came into play.

 

It's not a problem for me, because I don't think there should be an asterisk.

It's a problem for those who want to hate on the Patriots, and their accomplishments, when the league was full of teams doing it. If you're going to hate on the Patriots, be prepared to hate on everybody, don't be a hypocrite. So sick of people acting like the Patriots have been so dominant because they cheat. It's stupid, and makes us seem like poor losers.

 

The "everybody does/did it" BS is starting to get old. Yeah everyone did it, Who GAF? Where is the proof that everyone other than the Patriots did it AFTER the NFL said not to do it anymore? (Which would now be cheating.) 99% of the people claiming they did it was when it was said to be "widespread" and assumed "common practice". Well, Unfortunately for the pats, it was against the rules when they got caught doing it. So... It doesn't matter if every single team in the history of the NFL did it, it is still cheating any way you slice it.

"Oh but JJ did it"
That's nice but even he himself said that was before it was cracked down on, and he also frowns upon BB for doing it when it is now considered cheating and stated it was wrong to do so.

People can argue all they want. Cheating is cheating. The pats won't ever get the asterisk they deserve, but that's just how it is. I would be beyond ashamed of my team if they were caught cheating 3+ times. I'd possibly just stop following them all together, at least until the suspects were booted. Some people don't care. That's fine, but It would bother me.

Also, It really is absolutely comedic how the deflategate thing is getting swept under the rug. GG, Goodell and his BFF Kraft get what they want. The NFL in its entirety becomes more of a joke by the minute.

 

Hard to sweep things under the rug when there's nothing to sweep. Every piece of information that comes out further exonerates them of wrongdoing.

 

In your opinion. And there are plenty of people that disagree with you. There are plenty "pieces of information" that I disagree with as well. The pats are pretty much lucky there was just no video taken, and that was about it. I'm sure they thought of that though. Tom brady helping lead the crusade to make sure teams control/provide their own footballs was all I needed to hear. That and 11 out of 12 on one side and 0 out of 12 on the other as initially reported. His presser was probably the most incriminating thing out of everything that could be considered 'evidence'. A ton of QBs TORCHED him and his 'play stupid' responses. Embarrassing.

And for the record, the fact that the numbers continually changed multiple times until it was in favor of the pats side, is "sweeping it under the rug" to me. It's all blatantly in the best interest of the NFL.

Because hey, Getting caught cheating multiple times before this happened gives them the benefit of the doubt right? Because:weather

 

Enjoy your tainted championship. The nfl has no credibility on this.

 

Biletnikoff

 

Haha. In my opinion? The latest report is that the only ball that was 2psi under was the one that was intercepted. That's interesting. All the rest were barely under.

"Enjoy your tainted championship"?? I'm no Pats fan, I just wasn't on board with the ridiculous witchhunt that all the jealous fans wanted to go on. At this point, it's looking more and more like I was correct, and those calling for suspensions of BB/TB were fools.

 

but they stop reading and grab their pitchforks at the mere mention of anything and refuse to throw them down.


it's kinda like when everyone though cogs went all KKK but in the end he didn't. people just let it go and said, oh, well, i guess he didn't do it.


this whole thing fits into the whole, "they haven't won anything since they cheated in spygate narrative" a little too well to not have stink on it.

 

To praphrase Mr Wolf I might suggest that fellating each other because an anonymous report said the balls were only slightly underinflated is a bit premature.

Other reports have said the balls were significantly underinflated. Lets just wait and see what facts come out.

 

My favorite Pats apologist, justification, rationalization or minimization of all this dirty, rotten, Patriots cheating is, "everyone does this"... "all teams do this", etc. If so, why haven't any of the other 31 teams been caught? Why hasn't one of the former video employees of the other 31 teams come forward?

Most low information fans think Spygate was only about taping signals.

"Every now and then I'd get a sheet, one hour before the game, with a list of audibles for our opponent," former Pats linebacker Ted Johnson said in November 2005. "I don't know how, but they just showed up."

It's easy to see how this "dynasty", even in the world of salary caps and free agency, can thrive...they know the offensive plays ahead of time.

How does a mediocre 6th rd QB, who barely started in college, win 4 Superbowls? It's easy, let him know the defenses ahead of time.

The allegation most avoided by the Patriots and the NFL was the one regarding the Patriots use of an alternative radio frequency (compared to the one specified by the NFL) to communicate between the coaches and the quarterback. The Patriots were communicating on another frequency and where doing so longer than the NFL allows. (both unauthorized by the NFL) It was key to the concealment of their scheme for stealing the other teams defensive signals AND communicating them to their QB. Chris Mortensen reported on this PRIOR to Spygate.

I'm sure their impossible turnover ratio is a fluke too, right?

 

If there is nothing to hide then why is the nfl keeping the investigation so secretive? They should lay it all out in the open and release the findings as they discover them. They are not doing that though. They will fluff and buff the public tell everyone it was thouroughly investigated and there is nothing to see and then deystroy any evidence associated with it. Sound familiar?

release whatever evidence there is and let everyone decide for themselves if they intentionally cheated the system. Enough with the cloak and dagger crap!

 

Hell I'm surprised any of the Pats cheating instances were even made public!

 

The league sent a league-wide memo to tell teams to stop it. They stopped except the Patriots, which is why they were caught and punished. I mean, this has been said over and over again. When asked, Bill Belichick told Goodell he had been videotaping since 2000 or 2001 and didn't even try to hide it. How many former employees had left the Patriots and could have told other teams what Bill was doing.

This doesn't absolve the Patriots from what they did, but it's pretty foolish to sit here and think this practice wasn't an open secret or widespread. Bill Belichick's biggest sin wasn't videotaping. His biggest sin was disobeying Goodell's word. Why wasn't BB suspended? They suspended Payton for a whole year. They didn't suspend BB for a single game. Again, BB effed up, by not heeding the memo Goodell sent out.

But why didn't the other 31 teams get caught? Because they all listened to Goodell. Belichick didn't.

JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/s...23/jimmy-johnson-thinks-spygate-is-overblown/

"I don’t know if everyone was doing it, but everyone might’ve had a method of trying to do it. Maybe he did it better than everyone else. OK? And I’ll tell you this: In all honesty, I’ve coached as a head coach 15 years and an assistant four years, I know some things that have been done in the National Football League and I could document them, if I wanted to, that are far worse than that ever came close to being." - Dick Vermiel
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/s...ides-todays-spygate-update-what-is-this-2007/

“One of the coaches was actually waving at the camera, so it’s clear that teams, to me, recognize that taking signals from another team is something that they do, so they have very complex systems to make sure that they don’t allow their plays to be intercepted.” - Herm Edwards
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2008-03-02/sports/29433517_1_defensive-signals-bill-belichick-jets/2

I forgot about the waving to the camera thing. Again, it was an open secret. You don't wave to the camera guy if this is the first time they've ever heard of it.

The only reason it blew up was because of the memo, and Mangini deciding that day he didn't want Bill to film them in their stadium that day. Goodell was the new sheriff in town, and BB vioalted his ordinance so he made an example out of him. Stealing signals is okay, just couldn't use a video camera.

 

Now I got it, the Colts - in all their cheating glory- let air out of the ball after it was intercepted and presented it to the refs to be tested. So THATS a possibility now, but the idea the Patriots let air out of 11 balls is strictly unheard of. No way no how could the "strictly by the books" Patriots even consider such a thing. Colts found a way to cheat, Patriots would never do such a thing. Got it.

 

What if they let a little air out to guarantee it was below? How is that any less legit of a theory than the Patriots let air out?

We had an initial report, released by a guy Kravitz who writes for the Colts. Every report since has weakened the information he dropped, to the point it looks like he blatantly made stuff up.

 

It just amuses me that now its VERY conceivable that the Colts tampered with a football but its beyond comprehension that the Patriots would do such a thing. The non believers are taking this story and running with it and conveniently squashing the idea that the Patriots could very well be LIARS.

 

This happens far too often on this site...people restate the argument into something it's not, to try and make someone else's position seem completely ridiculous and untenable. The argument is, there is seemingly zero proof that the Patriots let any air out. There are reports that have been coming out after the initial report, that keep dropping the number of balls that were deflated. Boomer Esiason came out and said he believes it was trumped up by the Colts and Ravens. Without any evidence, what you have is people who hate the Patriots grasping at increasingly lower number of straws to try to convict them.

 

Well then there you have it. If Boomer said it, then cased closed ,nothing to see here move along now.


You just solidified my point. When something comes out that supports your opinion its gospel and written in stone and the individual saying it is very credible. All the other stories, that could very well condemn the Patriots, are made up conspiracies by nobodies.

Furthermore, Walter Thompson stated that he feels strongly that the Patriots are liars in all this.

 

if thats true then why isnt the nfl out in front squashing the allegations? Why is the investigation behind closed doors. They should be vocal about squashing the idea that the superbowl winners did not cheat their way in. They should be doing everything they can to make sure the perception is that the the patriots are legitimate.

It seems like they are unsure about how it looks and are doing thier best to control the flow of information so they can do damage control on their image.

 

No, but that's the whole point, isn't it? My opinion is that the most recent reports have disagreed with the initial report. We don't know what happened. So, all the knee-jerk reactions in regards to the initial report seem incredibly silly. It also seems silly to maintain the same position that you took after hearing the initial report. IF indeed the only ball that was drastically below the limit was the one in possession the Colts for 20 minutes, and the other balls were only "a tick below", it certainly changes the outlook on the whole thing.

 

That's exactly right. None of us know the real story but if there was absolutely no merit to the whole possibility of the Patriots cheating again then the league would have closed the door on this in the beginning.

 

That isn't proof of anything, though, RGF. I'm simply saying that people should stop saying ridiculous things...If it turns out that, indeed, only one ball that was in Colts possession, was drastically under, people will probably still cling to their conspiracy theories, since they have painted themselves into a corner. People want to believe the Patriots cheated, as an excuse for them being so dominant for so long, instead of it being that they are really just that good.

 

And if a new story comes out tomorrow that theres seemingly more proof of the Patriots possibly tampering with the balls are you going to dismiss what you recently read about he Colts being devious? No, because you need more proof, but what you heard recently is all the proof you need to exonerate the Patriots and put the blame elsewhere.

 

Again, how do we know the people saying that the Colts are devious aren't ridiculous.?