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Deep Ball Frustration! Heres how Aaron Rogers fixed it....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by vt_dolfan, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    "In a high school practice, Aaron Rodgers once threw a ball 75 yards. Mastering the precision of his deep ball, however, was a different story. As he says: "It's something I struggled with. I always had a strong arm and just wanted to zip everything." He has no such problems now. Here, the QB takes us inside the art of throwing a bomb. By ROB DEMOVSKY"



    http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-talks-art-deep-ball


    Some really good reading here
     
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  2. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    And what's also interesting in relation to this is that Rodgers didn't throw significantly more passes of this kind than Ryan Tannehill, for example, in 2014.

    His QB rating on such passes was much, much higher than Tannehill's, however.

    So, when the Packers went downfield in 2014, it was much more likely to result in the kinds of plays that help teams win than when the Dolphins did, despite that the Packers didn't run those plays significantly more than the Dolphins.

    Rodgers has efficiency downfield, whereas the Dolphins in 2014 did not.
     
    vt_dolfan likes this.
  3. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I wouldn't mind seeing, for these long passes from Rodgers, the breakdown of how much of it is YAC for Cobb and Nelson. i.e. is it a long bomb, or is he hitting these guys 20 yards downfield perfectly and they are running for another 30+ yards. You know Hartline is going to do that, I don't see Landry breaking away either.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The most important part is how much the receiver has to adjust to the ball.

    I think most people think accurate deep ball passing is the QB drops the ball right over the receivers shoulder without breaking stride, right into the breadbasket. Those are rare, that's why they make the highlight reals.

    A deep ball is accurate if its catchable. If its in a reasonable distance from the WR, that's all the QB can do and from there its all on the receiver.
     
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  5. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Landry will run away from people but he does a pretty good job in the return game of eluding and running over people so I can see him putting up decent YAC numbers.
     
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  6. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Right...if you really read the article, theres alot more to throwing a deep ball then what people usually consider.

    "When I'm out there, you just have to react. That's why you work on those throws. When you're in the moment, you can't think to yourself, 'How do I get this to go 47 yards and be 2 yards inside the sideline?' You just have to listen to your body and remember what the elements are and what your wrist snap does to the football."

    Thats where I believe Ryan has his biggest issue. You just have to react. CK has even mentioned this, to the extent that all of the media and all of the fans have turned this into SUCH A HUGE DEAL. I think its very possible its playing with his head. He isnt reacting, hes going..ok..wheres Wallace, wheres the DB...**** by that time hes about to get hit.
     
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  7. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    This is another very important piece:


    "I've spent years trying to time up my drops with my throws. You learn to listen to your feet and trust your positions. On a deep throw, you're going to have more weight on your back leg because you're lifting your shoulder up to get some arc on the throw. You're picking a spot and letting your muscle memory take over."

    Ryan played 1 and a half years being a Div 1 QB. Three years now in the NFL. Aaron Rogers spend YEARS timing his drops with his throws. IT TAKES TIME. Time is what creates muscle memory. You just have to know what it feels like. I fly fish...and there is so much muscle memory used in that, its not funny. But it takes ALONG time to get the timing down on casting a fly rod, and then learning the different kinds of casts you need to make. But when you get to a point, where your not thinking in your head....hauling, back casting, is my rod loaded, yada yada yada, now I just know what it feels like. Its gotta be the same way with this.
     
  8. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    OK...heres something else. And this I pin on Philben.


    The Packers Invented A Giant Metal Contraption For Aaron Rodgers To Practice With Because The Other Target Was Too Easy

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/packers-invented-giant-metal-contraption-205244272.html

    Packers coach Mike McCarthy decided that the traditional targets that Rodgers was using in deep-ball drills — "50-gallon-sized receptacles lined up on the goal line" — were no longer effective.

    So, he and equipment manager Red Batty built a six-foot-tall metal ring with a net attached, tilted it at a 60-degree angle, and placed it in the end zone. Rodgers throws from 50 yards out and tries to bury the ball into the net.



    "They used to line up garbage cans -- the 50-gallon-sized receptacles -- on the goal line, and let their quarterbacks take aim.

    But that wasn't precise enough for Green Bay Packers coach Mike McCarthy, not if he wanted Aaron Rodgers to be the best deep-ball thrower in football.

    So McCarthy and Packers equipment manager Red Batty came up with something better: A net attached to a metal ring positioned at a 60-degree angle and raised approximately 6 feet off the ground.

    Rodgers
    Come to a training camp practice, and you'll likely see Rodgers bury a ball in the bottom of the net from some 50 yards away.

    "We felt like we needed to throw it with more of an arc," McCarthy said, explaining why he wanted something more than garbage cans.

    When Rodgers came into the NFL, he knew he had the arm to throw it deep. But he admitted he had much to learn about the deep ball.

    "You really need to work on that touch," Rodgers said."


    Why havent the Dolphins done anything like this to improve Tannehill's deep ball accuracy?
     
  9. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Coaching.
     
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  10. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It's mostly about feel. Practice and repetition is part of it, but for some the "calculation" that goes into distance and trajectory comes more naturally than others. Like in basketball, some guys come out of high school as great 3 pt shooters. They have certainly practiced it a lot, but for some that "calculation" of distance and trajectory and converting it to muscle memory comes very naturally and for others it doesn't. Some guys, even after tens of thousands of practice reps never really get good at it. Others may finally get there but only after 8-10 years in the NBA. Jason Kidd, for example, had amazing basketball instincts in most ways but was never a great or natural shooter. He came into the NBA as a 27% 3pt shooter and slowly evolved, with some ups and downs, to become a 40+% guy after 14 years in the NBA. But even then, he was really a spot up, wide open shooter and not a guy who could catch on the move and rise up and hit the shot with regularity (like a Ray Allen). to some extent, I think Tannehill is a little like that, although I don't think he's as bad as many make him out to be. Part of the problem is that with Wallace we keep trying the 40+ past the LOS deep pass as opposed to the 25-25 yarder. Ryan attempted 9 of those 40+ passes last year -- Aaron Rodgers attempted only 5. In 2012, without Wallace, Tannehill completed 15 of 42 (35.7%) of his 21-40 yard deep passes, which really wasn't far off from Rodgers (20-47 -- 42.5%). Rodgers was better last year, but with small sample sizes like these you can expect significant variance from year to year.
     
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  11. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    I think fineas is correct. This is such a massive over reaction to a part.of his game. Does this issue really warrant the amount of message board space and back and forth it gets? Would we be better focusing on the things he does well and building around those other larger aspects of his game?
     
  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Another thing watching the Packers, Rodgers so often throws a pass thats NOT on the path that the WR and DB are heading, and the reciever adjusts, sometimes to the side, sometimes coming back or slowing down, and catches the pass away from the DB. That never, ever happens with Miami, and I think that everyone involved is partially at fault.
     
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  14. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I agree.. But what I think is important to discuss is what can they do to improve on that area of his game. Obviously deep passing has an impact. When you read articles like above, you see that it's not just a matter of.. Can he throw it down the field and score. What it also shows is.. With the right coaching and work, it can very much be improved. I don't want to hear, he can't throw the deep pass and will always suck at it. It just takes work, and creative ways to address the issue. Clearly, Aaron Rogers wasn't always so good at throwing a deep ball. But he fixed it...
     
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  16. atomdomb

    atomdomb Banned

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    How do you fix your deep ball? Throw to Randy Moss. Worked wonders for Brady.
     
  17. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

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    This is the contraption mentioned in the article that was made specifically for Rodgers:

    [​IMG]

    Here is a picture of a garbage can for reference:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    It really is an issue. Rogers is extremely accurate for the most part. RT simply is not. I think it is coaching / fundamentals; hard work; and then trusting the throws.

    RT does not throw the deep pass with very good mechanics, imo. Certainly not the mechanics that you see in Brees or Rogers. I don't think he gets air under the ball with any accuracy. He does need some better drills and practice. He should be working extra hard on this (probably right now as he's had over a month off). Start drilling and throwing a ton of deep ball just working on fundamental mechanics.

    If RT develops an accurate deep pass - he will move up in the echelon of QBs. If he develops a better pocket presence and feel for the pocket to go with that, he could become a truly elite QB.
     
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  19. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You sir....are awesome!!!
     
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  20. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Spot on Da' Fins.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    part of the reason why he struggles with the deep pass is because he struggles with touch, thats why you see him throw it on a line more times than not, however, I'm fine with his trajectory as long as he trusts it, and just throws it early..
     
  22. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Which is why he needs to work on it in practice, alot. That contraption the Packers made up would be perfect, to hit the net the ball needs to come in at 60 degrees....
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sure, if I'm him I'm into my offseason workout routine full metal jacket.
     

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