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N Suh..would you go for it?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Mar 2, 2015.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think I'm gonna fold on this one. I don't think this is Reggie White.

    They're talking about paying him as much as a franchise quarterback. He's not that valuable.

    The Gerald McCoy deal was $95.2 million over 7 new years, contrary to what people say about it being 6 years. That's only $13.6 million per year. This deal if it's Watt's contract at 6 years and $100 million is $16.7 million a year, which is 23% more than Gerald McCoy is paid.

    I mean, at what point does a deal's price tag go up so much it becomes a bad deal?

    I'm seeing too many arguments that remind me of the Mike Wallace signing...arguments that gloss over the details in favor of this vague idea that it's just something Miami "has" to do, to make a splash or whatever. It's scaring me off it. The McCoy numbers were already scary enough for me.
     
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  2. Zach13

    Zach13 Season Ticket Holder

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    No, too much money and we aren't just one DT away.
     
  3. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    Yeah I would. Yes he wants a big contract but we can structure his contract so he isn't getting paid 15mil this year and bump it next year when the cap will have a much bigger jump because of the new TV deals. Its not that bad as everyone thinks. This guy would change our defense. I'd let Wheeler, Ellerbe, Starks and not re-sign Odrick. Odrick is going to get probably 8mil a year, so get the best defensive player not named JJ in the league for double that. We can lose Wallace's contract next year which opens up lots of space as well. We can also restructure Pouncey to give us more cap room. Wallace, Mitchell, Francis and Johnson. as the rotation with Shelby moving inside on passing downs. Jenkins, Misi and Jordan as our lbs. Then we'd have to go grab another corner like the kid from the Texans and maybe Delmas comes back. I'd like that defense a lot. All three of our LBs would be good blitzers. Then you draft Offense.
     
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  4. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    I actually think he could have a White like effect on our Defense. Just adding him changes the entire complexion of our D. Vernon and Wake have single blocking on every play now. Mitchell getting single blocked would be good as well. Our LBs being Misi, Jenkins, and Jordan all are effective blitzers and now would have even more space to operate. Helps the back end especially where we have talent back there. The nu8mbers are big but with a big jump in cap next year plus paying him less this year I think we could fit him in and still add some good pieces in the defense. Then concentrate the draft on offense.
     
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  5. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    What would help is if we had a study that showed that the insertion of such a player actually did create more bang for your buck out of all those other players.

    In other words, if you can insert Suh at a premium price, and then suddenly get a greater "play-to-salary ratio" out of a significant number of players around him, even as far away as the offensive side of the ball, perhaps, then the money might be worth it.
     
  6. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    That's not accurate. He was given a tender, he hasn't signed anything yet. To assume that's what he will cost is just not sensible IMHO.
     
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  7. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    we could assign 2 players as june 1st cuts and get the money immediatly no ?
     
  8. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    I agree, that would be awesome but we really haven't seen a player of his caliber come into FA for a while. I would argue adding Revis allowed the Pats to become a much better defense even though the pieces from the year before were pretty much the same. It helped them drop 2pts/gm allowed with him on the team. Browner was also added but I think he might have been their worst player.

    For me, Suh allows more room to roam for our other players. I think also moving Jordan to LB is going to help our D immensely. I could be wrong and usually am as my wife tells me. I wouldn't be heartbroken if we didn't sign him either. Adding a 28 year old stud DT is always enticing regardless of the price. My question always is, if we had drafted Suh, would you let him walk or pay him?? I think most of us would be wanting to pay him like many Lions fans right now.
     
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  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Straight up? Yes, I'd sign Suh. It's risky, but this is a more calculated risk than say Jonathan Martin at LT, Ellerbe & Wheeler replacing Danbsy & Burnett, Mike Wallace, etc.
     
  10. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    One other thing, If we did sign Suh, the cap grows next year. You can cut Wallace or Wake and create lots of space by both moves. If we Get Suh, the other moves needed would be another corner like Jackson from the Texans for say 6mil/yr and then a FS like Rolle or Delmas while Aikens learns the defense for one more year or maybe he just takes over this year. If this happened we could pretty much concentrate on offense for the entire draft and surround Ryan with talent and the biggest hole on the team would be a guard spot. Could we sign one to come in and play, sure we could or we could draft one. I like the idea of going big in FA on defense and giving the offense lots of young pieces.
     
  11. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Suh wont be around come June 1
     
  12. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    No way, Not for what hes going to get in FA.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    no reason to cut wake, he makes peanuts for an elite player, which is all the more reason to go after Suh.
     
  14. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Finnegan was considered one of the dirtiest players in the game as well and Philbin had no problems with signing him or coaching him.
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    BTW, there's nothing "proven" about Philbin not being able to handle "personalities." It's a bunch of conjecture based on players who he's jettisoned. On another note, why do people insist on referring to players with issues as players with "personalities"? As if every other player who doesn't cause unnecessary drama is some sort of personality-missing robot...
     
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  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Doesn't matter, designations count as money saved this month.
     
  17. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I'm so sour on the coaching staff, I don't care who we sign. I don't think it would matter.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The moment they tendered him that $7 million counts against 2015's salary cap. They'd have to withdraw the tender to get it back. And I don't believe they can sign him to a longer term deal now until July at the earliest.
     
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  19. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I would go after Suh, I think that would be a great move. Of course one could argue did the get the Lions to the Super Bowl?
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree on the latter point you make, labeling guys with a flowery word like "personalities".

    I don't at all agree with the former. Joe Philbin has shown that he absolutely cannot, and has zero desire to handle players that are overly vocal, that cause problems in the locker room, or that get into trouble.

    I think all the evidence is just being conveniently forgotten. Philbin was instrumental in the decision to trade Brandon Marshall. He cut Chad Ochocinco and it was not on the basis of the latest incident but instead he cited a string of incidents that involved things like using foul language during a press conference and having an awkward tweet. He was part of the decision making to serve Karlos Dansby his walking papers because he was too vocal with the press with his opinions. Talk to those around the team situation and Kevin Burnett also felt he was on his way out long before he was let go, and it was because he was too vocal as well. Reggie Bush was the man that asked to start the leadership council because they all felt Philbin had wronged Ochocinco, and a year later Reggie is let go after a successful season. He had Vontae benched because he didn't like him asking for a potty break. Then he gave Ireland the thumbs up on trading him.

    Philbin had no ability, none whatsoever, to speak to players involved in the Incognito/Martin/Pouncey affair and soothe things out. He had no idea anything was even brewing and Martin was NOT the only guy that was being bullied, not even the worst one (that honor belongs to Nate Garner).

    This situation between Wallace, Tannehill and Hartline has been brewing all year. All. Damn. Year. I know that for a fact. I'd been warned over a month in advance that Wallace was going to explode on the sidelines pretty soon. Was Philbin able to do anything to handle that situation and prevent it from turning into a four alarm fire? No. Of course not. And now what's happening? Philbin wants Wallace gone. Hickey wants him to stay. Lazor wants him to stay. But Philbin refuses to budge, refuses to admit that any part of the miscommunication on the sidelines that resulted in Philbin deciding to sit Wallace for the second half of the Jets game was on Joe or that he could have done any of it differently. All other parties have admitted their faults this way, but not him. He wants Wallace gone.

    And then there's Philbin's direct words about what he wants. He's flat out SAID that he wants guys that just shut up and go to work. Direct quote. Asked why he liked Koa Misi so much and he said Koa keeps his mouth shut and just works. He had to correct himself when he'd realized he gave too much of what he was really thinking away.

    You act like people are just making all this stuff up but it's simply not the case.
     
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  21. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what you are saying here. It is really sad.
     
  22. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I don't like Suh the man. He's a dirty player and pushes the envelope of legality on nearly every play. That said, he's still a great player... I certainly be happy as a Dolphin fan as the football goes, but the price we'd pay is the probability that we'd lose him at some point because he went all "stomp happy" on Brady and we lose another close game to them because of the penalty yardage and then he'd be suspended for the next 4 games... The thing is, if we should acquire him, that latter scenario is likely to happen at some point while he's here... Is that worth it ?? Well, maybe just to see Brady get stomped....nah, seriously I'm very torn on that side of Suh.... On the football side, it's a no brainer to be in on getting him...
     
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  23. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    We could cut Tannehill and save 15 mill right there......................noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
     
  24. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    another excellent post :theman:
     
  25. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Signing Suh has its pros and cons, and I think the pros can outweigh the cons IF and ONLY IF we draft well the next couple of years. We'll likely be cash-strapped the next few years and basically the only way to fill our other needs is if we draft well and develop talent... if we can do this, then I'm for Suh... if not, I don't think he'll be worth it.
     
  26. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    No when you cut a player with a Jun 1 designation their contract remains on the books until Jun 1.
     
  27. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    What's the point of having June 1st designations then? Why not just wait until June 1st to cut the player? Honest question.
     
  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Theoretical question: What if Ellerbe and Wheeler both meet an untimely and saddening demise before the season starts via brake failure or carbon monoxide leak, ect. Do they still count against the cap? How much could we theoretically save?

    -Not D. Hickey
     
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  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Clemons not Misi but the point remains.
     
  30. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You mean like an explosion at a gas station? Dolphins have experience w/ that.
     
  31. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    I've thought about it and was never big on signing Wallace just never seen him as a game changer but jumped on board all the excitement which never has panned out. Suh scares me as far as keeping under control but he is with out a doubt to me a game changer type player and would bring the defense to the next level.

    So because I think it would be good don't worry we won't get him.
     
  32. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Would love Suh. But I don't want to pay any player 100 million that isn't a QB. And I'd rather get some lineman to protect Tannehill...
     
  33. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I have read the term "Personalities" when referring to the players Philbie has jettisoned for one reason or another

    Isn't Suh and his "Personality" just a pipe dream in reality? Is, or more correctly, would Philbie put up with a guy like that? Pretty obvious the answer I think. But like Wallace it would not surprise me that the front office tries to make a big splash and we sign Suh, then try next year or the year after to get rid of him and his giant contract cementing the Dolphins to 6 more years of Philbie ball......yeaaaaaaa
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lots of creative ways to make contract, player has to be intelligent enough to work with a team when player is this great.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'd like to see the numbers. I've said before I top out around the Gerald McCoy deal which was 7 years, $95.2 million. Significantly higher than that and we're just venturing into madness.
     
  36. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Can't see how Philbin would be on board w this.
     
  37. Killer Carlson

    Killer Carlson New Member

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    Regardless of which top players you go after, it's gonna be an "overpay". At least Suh is a hall of fame type talent. Sign him and let's see how good the Dolphins can be.
     
  38. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Who cares what he thinks, Tannebaum is calling the shots now, if Philbin wants to make the playoffs and keep his job, then he needs to get on board
     
  39. magicap

    magicap Shonuff

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    It basically comes down to who would you want more, Wallace or Suh?Give me Suh.
     
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  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The first thing I said ties directly into the second. He doesn't simply dislike "personalities." Certain people want to label problem players as players with "personalities." I agree that Philbin doesn't want problems on his team. I just don't think that "problem" = "personality." So, it's become commonplace for fans to accuse Joe of getting rid of "personalities," but I think, in his mind, he's getting rid of "problems."
     

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