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Tannehill gunna get PAIDDDDDDDDDDD

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SICK, Mar 23, 2015.


  1. he plays nothing like Brady get over it
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I just proved he produces almost EXACTLY like Brady.

    Your biased opinion means dick in light of actual, honest to god facts.

    Essentially you are flat out wrong, but you keep pretending you're not, perhaps its you who should get over it.
     
  3. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    I love Tannehill but hopefully he doesn't get anything more than $15 million a year.
     
  4. You cherry pick some stats that are similar and then proclaim they are equal.... congrats!

    The fact is they play entirely different styles. Brady game is heady and Tannehill plays a more physical game.
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Cherry picked stats? Really? Wow. lol. Lemme guess, you didn't actually read what stats I "cherry picked", you just saw it was me and wanted to argue.
     
  6. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    you're bsing yourself if you think the colts aren't going to pay luck a lot of money.
     
  7. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Don't count on it. We see $15M and see Tannehilll, and then compare that amount to other positions and what other elite players playing those positions make and say "well Tannehill cannot possibly make more than that" but in reality it is not like that at all.

    Consider the other QBs around the league that are making in that same range of salary, and then consider their production, age and upside with respects to Tannehill.

    Sam Bradford - $13M
    Phillip Rivers - $15.3M
    Andy Dalton - $16M
    Eli Manning - $16.25M
    Carson Palmer - $16.5M
    Alex Smith - $17M
    Matthew Stafford - $17.6M
    Colin Kaepernick - $19M

    $15M is a good price for Tannehill NOW. A bargain if he continues to improve.
     
  8. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Some serious holes in that.

    Indy can get off cheaper for a year by waiting...a LOT cheaper. Miami's closer to a wash, why not get a team-friendly long-term deal done NOW since you think he's probably the guy.

    Luck is a generation player, elite before taking a snap...no 2 ways about it. Comparing RT to Luck is just like comparing every other NFL QB to Luck, save a very few in the 5 years and under experience range...it makes no damn sense whatsoever.

    Two different teams...two different situations...because Indy's doing something has ZERO impact on what Miami should do. Sign him to a long-term deal now with some escapability built-in just in case, makes sense.

    This is not to say you don't draft a guy every year, because they should, but luckily we're not in the situation where we have to trade multi-years' picks to reach for the next Ryan Leaf.
     
  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I NEVER stated they weren't going to pay Luck a lot of money. All I stated is they are in no hurry to start paying him that large amount of money.

    They seem to be content with letting him play the 2015 season for the contract he signed for when he was drafted and will opt to pick up his 2016 contract at a much higher dollar figure.

    I believe the Dolphins should do the same thing with Tannehill and see how he plays this coming season before deciding if he is worth all the money it will require to sign him to a new long term contract.

    In Luck's case, he has already proved he deserves to be one of the highest paid QB's in the NFL, but the Colts are being smart with their cap money for 2015 by having him play at a much lower dollar amount than he will be playing for in future seasons.
     
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  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Those aren't "cherry-picked" stats. They're the basic stats tracked for all QBs.

    And according to then, he plays very much like Brady.
     
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  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Tannehill already produced Brady numbers. Every season he's played he's improved. At this point, its more likely he'll make another jump forward and cost even more next year. There's really no signs pointing to him being worse or leveling off other than fan grumpiness.
     
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  12. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I'm with ya...looking at that list, my guess was pretty decent (15 to 18)...but that's a pretty big range, also. Phillip Rivers missed the boat...Dalton's overpaid...CKap holy hell is he overpaid...to fine tune my guess, it looks like the team would do well up to 16.5M a year right now, 'cuz if he gets further around the corner this year, it could be a good bit more if they did the contract after this season.
     
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  13. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    And those Brady stats are with how many years experience in the system they run? 15? RT has had 1? Take away half of the sack differential and RT's numbers would demolish those...yet NE won a Super Bowl with that level QB play. Takes a team...I don't know why that's so hard for some to understand...must be their PMS (Post-Marino Syndrome).

    Pay 'da man!
     
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  14. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Yup. If he improves again in the coming season, the team is going to be in a really tough position because Tannehill and his people could very well be in their rights to ask for Kaepernick money and very well deserve it.

    Won't bother me as much. If Tannehill continues to improve, that is reward enough to compensate for any increased money he'll demand, but it does reflect the slippery position the team is in now.
     
  15. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I just mentioned what the Colts are doing with Luck, but it has been my view all along that the Dolphins should not sign Tannehill to a new contract until possibly after the 2015 season.

    While he had decent passing stats last year, I am still not as convinced as many others on this forum that Tannehill is the long term answer at the QB position. I would like to see him at least lead this team to one winning season before signing him to a contract which will pay him a lot of money against the cap.

    If he was going into his free agent year, maybe I would feel different. But the Dolphins can opt to pick up his contract for 2016 and by doing so, they will have at least one more season to see if he can continue to develop or if he has plateaued in his development.

    I would love to see him take that next step up and become the type QB who can be counted on to lead his team to victories when the game is on the line in the closing minutes of the game. To me, the ability to drive the offense the length of the field in those situations is what separates the elite QB's from the mediocre QB's.

    So far in those situations, Tannehill has proved to be merely a mediocre QB. Perhaps he will make that leap this coming season, but to me a QB with a losing record after his first three years in the league is not yet worth the type of money it has been reported the Dolphins seem willing to pay him.
     
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  16. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    It's curious as to why the roles weren't reversed, though?
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Passing stats in today's game means very little compared to the game 20-30 years ago. It is a passing game today and almost every QB's stats are inflated today.

    I take nothing away from Tannehill in regards to his ability to hit the short and intermediate range passes. What separates Brady and the other elite QB's from Tannehill is their ability to consistently lead their teams to victory in the closing minutes of a game.

    I don't think Tannehill makes any opposing head coach feel queasey in the closing minutes of the game when he is attempting to lead his team down the field for a victory. To me this is a major weakness in his game and I would like to see him improve in this area of his game before I buy into him being the future of the Dolphins at the QB position.

    While the passing stats of Tannehill and Brady may be comparable in some respects. The fact remains that Brady is a proven Hall of Famer with four SB wins at the QB position and Tannehill is still looking for his first winning season after three years in the league.

    Put Brady or one of the other elite QB's on the Dolphins the past three years and I have no doubt the Dolphins would have made the playoffs in at least one, if not two of those three seasons.
     
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  18. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Ryan Tannehill plays like Tom Brady?? I've heard it all now. I can die laughing. LOL
     
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  19. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I'll agree to disagree I guess...because I saw better late game play out of him in 2014. He left the field with a lead in the 4th quarter several times...a lead the OFFENSE got...just for Coyle and the D to let it slip away...those losses can be placed squarely on shoulders other than his, if we're pointing fingers. Bottom line: the TEAM lost.

    Cam Wake has a losing record over the past 3 years too...so does Brent Grimes (actually Brent is .500, still)...and THEIR unit was more responsible for many of those 4th quarter losses in 2014 (especially GB / Detroit / Denver, also poor losses to Baltimore / NY Jets (Geno perfect QB rating what?)).

    RT did his part, and shows no signs of regressing...arrow is up...he's earned a contract IMHO.
     
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  20. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Who ever said RT was elite? We're not talking elite money either...some QBs have been overpaid that drives the market up for the position...it is what it is.

    And I'm not convinced they would have made the playoffs with Brady...unless he plays Defense also...last I checked, he didn't. Aaron Rodgers? Yep. Andrew Luck? Yep. Brady? Can't go there.

    You'd think since he's so elite and a HoF QB and 15 years experience in the SAME SYSTEM, his numbers would have blown RT's out the water...especially with less than half the sacks! So much for the resume...

    THE PATRIOTS won those Super Bowls...the first few when Brady was just another young developing QB that didn't scare anybody, riding on their Defense's jock, and he wasn't trusted to fully operate the offense. RT is being asked to do a helluva lot more, and he's handling it in stride. We don't have Belicheat to lean back on to get us the W when the QB is still developing...nor the DC while you're at it.

    Why does everybody continue to credit/blame an entire team's success/failure on ONE guy? In RT's case...a guy that did his fair share to get it done? Team concept that evasive?
     
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  21. PhinsMondayNitro

    PhinsMondayNitro Active Member

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    The stats are very similar but under clutch situations & carrying the team on his back Tannehill isn't there yet.
     
  22. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to speculate so heavily to make your point, I'll go ahead and speculate equally and say that few QBs, certainly not Tom Brady, would have finished the last 2 seasons of Dolphins QB under the pummeling and pressure onslaught Tannehill suffered. Tom Brady gets protected very well so he can play like he plays, and when he isn't, at the very least his play suffers significantly. Would have liked to see Tom Brady remain healthy and finish both season's getting pummeled and stuffed the way Tannehill got pummeled and stuffed.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    People keep talking about "inflated stats", yet there were only 11 QBs to throw for 4k yards last season, and Tannehill was the only one people are questioning as being below average. He had a two to one td/int ratio. I guess QBR might be inflated today, just stop dissing his overall numbers. Average QBs aren't throwing for 4k yards and 2:1 td/int in their first year in a new system.

    Oh, and there's far more to wins than simply the QB.
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    THill is a GOOD Qb, not a great one.

    In some ways think of him the way I think of Jay Cutler, a GOOD Qb not a great one.

    Here is the problem all of that cap room to sign Wallace, Suh etc, is about to say "Geronimo!" out the door of the salary cap airplane.

    That works when you have a great Qb who can cover up young players failings, with Cautious Coach Joe he hasn't tossed the younger, cheaper guys into the fire of playing time and even then THill is not good enough yet to cover up for mediocre Vets failings esp on D and ST.

    Pay THill, unless ol Joe finds a way to avoid a December slump we will be on the 8-8 train again and outside the playoffs.
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    4th qtr is where the rubber meets the road, THill is not exactly Captain Comeback.

    15 mil seems like a good deal, just realize we will be hamstrung moving forward.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If you wait a year it might be 20-25. Wilson and Luck are going to explode what quarterbacks make. Heck, there is talk in Seattle that Wilson is going to sign for $30 million a year.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The major difference between Tannehill and Brady's performances is what the rest of the team is doing. You are looking at victories and nothing else and putting the onus of winning solely on the QB.

    Performance wise, they are producing nearly identically, which means the problem with Dolphins lies somewhere other than the QB position. This proves that.

    Read the numbers, what do they say?

    That's not true.

    Tannehill sat down for the day with the lead a few times the past two years only to have his defense screw the pooch. If the defense hadn't of done that, we'd have been in the playoffs the past two years and no one would be questioning Tannehill.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    People forget that making the playoffs is a team accomplishment. The Patriots, for instance, allowed 19.6ppg during the regular season, good for 7th in the league. They gave up 20.7ppg in the postseason, good for 1st. Compare to the Dolphins, who gave up 23.3ppg, and their average was boosted by that outlier of a game where they shut out San Diego. Factor in the five games (I believe it was five) where they gave up more than than 25, and it's not hard to come to conclusions about why they didn't make the playoffs.

    EDIT: 8 games giving up more than 25, with 5 games giving up 30 or more. That's why we didn't make the playoffs.
     
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  29. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    46 sacks vs 21 sacks. Tannehill's pocket presence sucks. I like him a lot as a player, but to compare him to Tom Brady is asinine.
     
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  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol. Yeah, since apparently sacks are the result of "bad pocket presence" why even have an offensive line in your world? Or are you willing to admit that all of those sacks were not Tannehill's fault? However, even with more than double the amount of sacks, Tannehill STILL produced nearly identical to Brady. And if the line had allowed less sacks, Tannehill's numbers would have likely exceeded Brady's.

    You are saying I can't compare the two yet their numbers are nearly identical. That means I can compare the two and you telling me I can't is based on zero facts, just the notion that "Brady is great!!!!!!!", and nothing more.

    You, like everyone else, is basing your opinion on wins and nothing else, completely neglecting the other 52 players on a team.
     
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  31. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Hes not going to get Flacco money. That's one of the reasons why we're trying to lock him up now...
     
  32. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I'd pay him $12 mil per year with a boost for playoffs. $1 mil more for each playoff win.
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, imagine if Tannehill gets comfortable in a pocket? Imagine if his line gets it's **** together and can hold a block for more than two seconds? Imagine if he didn't have to worry about his ends getting beat while pressure comes quick up the middle? He put up Brady numbers while dealing with all that garbage last season. Oh yeah, it was his first year in a new system.

    But yes, by all means, let's question Tannehill's ability.
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You should incentivize the defense in a similar, yet even stronger, way.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Tannehill will either regress, plateau or improve.

    What evidence specific to Tannehlll says he will regress or plateau? (By evidence specific to Tannehill, I mean I don't want anecdotes about QBs in general or nebulous things about the team, like, "well, we're the Dolphins, so of course he'll suck". I also don't want non evidence like "I'll believe when it I see it".)

    The reason I'm asking, is because if you think he'll regress or plateau there's no reason to pay him now. However, if he progresses like he has every year, then it would cost us a lot more money to wait.

    So go ahead, naysayers, what's your evidence..........?
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I agree with jw and PhinsMondayNitro on this one.. Tannehill isn't at Brady's level when it comes to leading the team from behind to close out the game. Yes, Tannehill was let down by the defense a few times, but opposing coaches I doubt are as afraid of Tannehill leading a comeback in the 4th quarter than Brady.

    Since you want stats, keep in mind that Brady had 4 4th quarter comebacks + 4 game-winning drives last year as opposed to Tannehill, who had 2 4th quarter comebacks + 1 game-winning drive in 2014. Brady also beat Tannehill in these categories each of the last 3 years.
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=BradTo00
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=TannRy00

    Also, while the sack differential is important, and all other things being equal says Tannehill put up similar stats in a worse situation, I think it is true that some of those sacks are attributable to Tannehill's worse pocket presence. As you point out though, that won't explain the entire difference because Brady's offensive line was far better.

    However, there is one thing working for Brady when looking at the stats: he worked with a far lesser group of WR's than Tannehill did. That's as important a difference as the offensive line IMO.

    Anyway, I still don't consider Tannehill as good a QB as Brady, and I think the great majority of coaches in the NFL wouldn't either. This is a case where you need to supplement the stats with some "eyeball" arguments because the stats are the result of not just the QB, but also the OL and WR etc.. and they don't separate out the effect of each contributor.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Much easier to lead 4th quarter comebacks when your defense isn't letting the other team hang 30+ on you.

    I'm not sure I agree with the receiver argument, either. Wallace/Hartline/Landry/Clay vs Edelman/Amendola/LaFell/Gronk.
     
  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Point is.. either you go the route of saying stats are superior, or you argue based on what you see. If you say stats are superior, then the stats show Brady > Tannehill at 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives. If not, then fine but don't dismiss "eyeball" arguments.

    And yes, I'd say that while Gronk is better than any of our WR/TE's, Wallace, Landry and Clay together form a more formidable group than NE's group. That's obviously just opinion, but I think Brady made his group of WR look better than they were.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The comebacks issue:
    Tannehill sat down with the lead in 2 games last year, the defense losing both those games while he's off the field. That would have given him 4 just like Brady.

    The WR talent:
    I don't see how that's true actually. That's essentially not backed up by anything. Its even less true when you factor in Gronkowski. In just yards alone for example, Gronk, Edelman & LaFell all outproduced Wallace. With TDs it gets even uglier for us.

    The eyeball test:
    That is effected by record. Production is production. As far production, they produced similarly.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't think that's true. Tannehill put up stats on par with Brady. However, the statistics defensively, also tell a story about 4th quarter comebacks. Unless your position is that it's just as easy to overcome your defense letting up 30+ points as it is to overcome your defense allowing 20. See, the eyeball test also takes that into consideration.
     
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