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Stats! Qbr 2014

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

    1,818
    572
    0
    Dec 23, 2014
    The relevant questions are: 1) how much variation there is in offensive line play throughout the league, which tells us how much of an improvement can reasonably be expected by any team, 2) where the Dolphins are currently in that distribution of offensive line play, which tells us how much improvement can reasonably be expected on their part specifically, and 3) the degree to which variation in QB play is associated with variation in offensive line play.

    Any one of those three issues can limit the degree to which improvement in Tannehill's play should be expected on the basis of improvement in the Dolphins' offensive line play, and it just so happens to be the case that all three argue against significant improvement.
     
  2. GrimeyGrimes

    GrimeyGrimes New Member

    13
    1
    0
    Apr 1, 2015
    Tannehills placement on that list is no surprise to me. He doesn't stretch the field, can't look off defenders, low ypa.
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    I've taken the table from the OP, removed the irrelevant QB's and I've added three columns to the right. Sack and QB Hits taken from the NFL.com stats for each team's Offensive Line (which means the Sacks figure sometimes varies if a different QB took the sack). I've then combined total number of sack and hits and called it QB contacts. I've then taken that data and entered it into a scatter graph for easier comparison.

    Yes, I know this is simplistic, but it'll tell us exactly how much contact the teams' QBs took - whether that's the fault of the offensive line or the QB isn't demonstrated.


    [TABLE="class: cms_table_data-table1, width: 782"]
    [TR]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Rk[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Player[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Team[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Pos[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Comp[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Att[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Pct[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Att/G[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Yds[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Avg[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Yds/G[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]TD[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Int[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]1st[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]1st%[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Lng[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]20+[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]40+[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: center"]Sck[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable cms_table_sorted cms_table_order1, bgcolor: #DDDDDD, align: center"]Rate[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable cms_table_sorted cms_table_order1, bgcolor: #DDDDDD, align: center"]Sacks[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable cms_table_sorted cms_table_order1, bgcolor: #DDDDDD, align: center"]QB Hits[/TH]
    [TH="class: cms_table_thd2 cms_table_right cms_table_sortable cms_table_sorted cms_table_order1, bgcolor: #DDDDDD, align: center"]QB Contacts (Sacks + Hits)[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_even"]
    [TD]2[/TD]
    [TD]Tony Romo[/TD]
    [TD]DAL[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]304[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]435[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]69.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]29.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3,705[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]247.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]34[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]189[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]43.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]68T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]49[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]29[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]113.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]30[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]53[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]83[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [TD]Aaron Rodgers[/TD]
    [TD]GB[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]341[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]520[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]65.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]32.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,381[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]273.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]38[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]219[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]42.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]80T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]59[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]15[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]28[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]112.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]30[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]64[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]94[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]Ben Roethlisberger[/TD]
    [TD]PIT[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]408[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]608[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]67.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]38.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,952[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]309.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]32[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]240[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]94T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]55[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]15[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]33[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]103.3[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]33[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]62[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]95[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_even"]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD]Peyton Manning[/TD]
    [TD]DEN[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]395[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]597[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]66.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.3[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,727[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]295.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]15[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]225[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]86T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]66[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]11[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]17[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]101.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]17[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]42[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]59[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]11[/TD]
    [TD]Tom Brady[/TD]
    [TD]NE[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]373[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]582[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]64.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]36.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,109[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]256.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]33[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]220[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]69T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]44[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]21[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]97.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]26[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]82[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]108[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_even"]
    [TD]12[/TD]
    [TD]Drew Brees[/TD]
    [TD]NO[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]456[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]659[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]69.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]41.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,952[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]309.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]33[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]17[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]258[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]69T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]52[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]29[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]97.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]30[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]81[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]111[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]13[/TD]
    [TD]Andrew Luck[/TD]
    [TD]IND[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]380[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]616[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]61.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]38.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,761[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]297.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]40[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]16[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]234[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]38.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]80[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]73[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]15[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]27[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]96.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]29[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]107[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]136[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]17[/TD]
    [TD]Russell Wilson[/TD]
    [TD]SEA[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]285[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]452[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]63.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]28.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3,475[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]217.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]20[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]159[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]35.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]80T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]54[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]42[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]95.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]42[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]91[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]131[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_even"]
    [TD]18[/TD]
    [TD]Matt Ryan[/TD]
    [TD]ATL[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]415[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]628[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]66.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,694[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]293.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]28[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]14[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]230[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]36.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]79[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]60[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]31[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]93.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]31[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]89[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]120[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]19[/TD]
    [TD]Philip Rivers[/TD]
    [TD]SD[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]379[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]570[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]66.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]35.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,286[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]267.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]31[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]18[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]213[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]59[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]57[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]36[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]93.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]75[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]112[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_even"]
    [TD]20[/TD]
    [TD]Alex Smith[/TD]
    [TD]KC[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]303[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]464[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]65.3[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]30.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3,265[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]217.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]18[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]175[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]70T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]40[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]45[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]93.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]49[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]78[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]127[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]21[/TD]
    [TD]Ryan Tannehill[/TD]
    [TD]MIA[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]392[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]590[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]66.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]36.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,045[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]6.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]252.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]27[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]12[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]224[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]38.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]50[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]41[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]46[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]92.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]46[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]98[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]144[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_even"]
    [TD]22[/TD]
    [TD]Eli Manning[/TD]
    [TD]NYG[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]379[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]601[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]63.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]4,410[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.3[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]275.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]30[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]14[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]216[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]35.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]80T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]52[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]28[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]92.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]30[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]73[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]103[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]23[/TD]
    [TD]Joe Flacco[/TD]
    [TD]BAL[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]344[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]554[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]62.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]34.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3,986[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]249.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]27[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]12[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]194[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]35.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]80T[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]50[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]19[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]91.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]19[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]56[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]75[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]25[/TD]
    [TD]Jay Cutler[/TD]
    [TD]CHI[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]370[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]561[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]66.0[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3,812[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]6.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]254.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]28[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]18[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]181[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]32.3[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]74[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]38[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]88.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]41[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]82[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]123[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: cms_table_odd"]
    [TD]27[/TD]
    [TD]Kyle Orton[/TD]
    [TD]BUF[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]287[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]447[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]64.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]37.2[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]3,018[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]6.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]251.5[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]18[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]147[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]32.9[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]84[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]33[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]87.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]39[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]85[/TD]
    [TD="class: cms_table_right, align: right"]124[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    [​IMG]

    There are no guarantees that great OL play = great QB play or the opposite, however, I think it's a definite that bad OL play will = worse QB play, the only question is where the ceiling is. i.e. more time and space for a QB is always a good thing.

    As for the QB's responsibility, you definitely have QB's who are better than other in avoiding/dealing with contact, and learning to be better at it will make a QB better and more valuable. Pragmatically speaking though, this means that OL play becomes much more important for teams whose QB isn't good at evading pressure/hits. One can argue that it's the QB's fault, but at the end of the day, you deal with what you've got, and if it just means that one team needs to ensure that they've got an incredible OL to compensate and ensure they get the most out of their QB, then that's what they should do, unless they feel they can swap the QB.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What a surprise. When combining sacks AND hits, Tannehill is in the lead. The average in that modified list is 109 QB Contacts. So, Tannehill is significantly above that.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    We've been saying it for awhile.
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's too bad that we can't be accurate in our assessment, since we're just "Tannehill lovers."
     
    Fin D likes this.
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    At one point i was told that the problem was Tannehill and not Hartline, Bess & Nananee. I was told TDs are not on the receiver but the QB. I was told timing doesn't matter. I was told pressures don't correlate to success positively or negatively. Hell, I've been told that all those sacks are more because of him and not the oline, because after all PFF rated Wilson's line the same or worse.
     
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  8. SilverZ

    SilverZ New Member

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    I think an aspect that needs to be discussed in addition to hits/sacks is how long the QB takes to release the ball. A bad O-line can be accounted for by a QB who can read the defense and make a quick read, although it will still prevent slower developing routes etc.

    This is a very interesting breakdown of QB throw times and production from prior to last season (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/16/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw/)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2016
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Ah yes, remember the Hartline and Bess are the best receiving duo in the league argument? AHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA
     
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  10. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    In terms of Tannehill's improvement in performance from 2013 to 2014, what do you make of the fact that the numbers you added (bolded above) were even worse for the Dolphins in 2014 than they were in 2013?
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Look, you can't say that because Tannehill improved, that it means that the oline performance is meaningless. Can you give me that actual numbers that Tannehill would have had with a good oline? Since you can't, your whole argument is based around theory. You can't actually prove your theory, because you can never have what his numbers would have been. Without those tangible numbers, you can't compare his increase with a bad oline to what his increase would have been with a good oline.

    This discussion is like trying to prove God is real.
     
  12. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    My argument is simply that Tannehill's improvement from 2013 to 2014 didn't depend completely on the offensive line, and that's undebatable.
     
  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    In 2013 Tannehill's QBR was 81.7.

    [TABLE="class: data-table1, width: 782"]
    [TR]
    [TH="class: thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6"]Rk[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6"]Player[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6"]Team[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6"]Pos[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Comp[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Att[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Pct[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Att/G[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 order1 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Yds[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Avg[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Yds/G[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]TD[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Int[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]1st[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]1st%[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Lng[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]20+[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]40+[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Sck[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Rate[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [TABLE="class: data-table1, width: 782"]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]10[/TD]
    [TD]Ryan Tannehill[/TD]
    [TD]MIA[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]355[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]588[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]60.4[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]36.8[/TD]
    [TD="class: sorted right, align: right"]3,913[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]6.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]244.6[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]24[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]17[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]204[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]34.7[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]67[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]46[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]58[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]81.7[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Meanwhile, for the OL:

    [TABLE="class: data-table1, width: 782"]
    [TR]
    [TH="class: thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6"]Rk[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2, bgcolor: #EFF2F6"]Team[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"] Exp[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"] Att[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"] Yds[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"] Avg[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]TDs[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]1st[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Neg[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]+10Y[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Pwr[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]1st[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Neg[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]+10Y[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Pwr[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]1st[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Neg[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]+10Y[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Pwr[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 order2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]Sacks[/TH]
    [TH="class: thd2 right sortable, bgcolor: #EFF2F6, align: right"]QB Hits[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [TABLE="class: data-table1, width: 782"]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]32[/TD]
    [TD]Miami Dolphins[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]471[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]349[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]1,440[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]4.1[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]32[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]22[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]17[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]40[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]16[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]78[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]13[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]11[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]50[/TD]
    [TD="class: sorted right, align: right"]58[/TD]
    [TD="class: right, align: right"]100[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    That's 158 contacts.

    In 2013 it was 58 sacks and 100 hits = 158 contacts. QBR 81.7
    In 2014 it was 46 sacks and 98 hits = 144 contacts. QBR 92.8

    So that's more QB contact and a worse QB Rating, or, conversely, less QB contact and a better QB rating. Am I missing something?
     
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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Once again, you're arguing something that no one else is arguing. You go from a statement like the one I quoted, and extrapolate to something along the lines of "the impact of offensive lines on QB play throughout the league is negligible." So, you go from a reasonable stance, that improvement of QBs is not completely dependent on the oline, to a line of thinking where you essentially have said many times that oline play is so meaningless to be insignificant in how far (or how much) a QB can improve. Those two concepts are not the same.
     
  15. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    This is what I'm getting from Pro Football Focus for 2013:

    [TABLE="width: 336"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Team
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Passing Plays
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Sacks Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Hits Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Hurries Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Total Pressure Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]PBE
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]MIA
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]667
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]41
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]39
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]114
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]194
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]76.6
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    ...and for 2014:

    [TABLE="width: 336"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Team
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Passing Plays
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Sacks Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Hits Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Hurries Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Total Pressure Allowed
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]PBE
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]MIA
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]649
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]31
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]46
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]133
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]210
    [/TD]
    [TD="class: xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]74.5
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
     
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  16. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    I raised the question hypothetically of whether it's negligible in post #81. I never said it was in fact negligible.
     
  17. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    So in looking at the stat differences we see that from 2013 to 2014 Tannehill was pressured more in 2014 but was hit less.

    I stuck to physical contact hits & sacks since that's a palpable thing. Pressures and hurries are far less measurable.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That was simply the closest thing I could find. I'd rather not go searching for the other times we've discussed it, but you've made it pretty clear that you believe the statistics point to QBs playing no worse and no better, depending on the oline. You've said it many times. I think it's safe to say that your position is that the oline is statistically meaningless in QB performance. Would you agree with that statement?
     
  19. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    My position on it is summed up in post #83.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So yes, you believe that the oline is insignificant to QB development/improvement? I mean, if that is truly your stance, then there is no point in continuing to debate, because we will simply never agree on this.
     
  21. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    I think its influence pales in comparison to that of other variables.

    The issue here is that Ryan Tannehill was the first, first-round QB selected by the team since Dan Marino, and of course the hope was that he'd become a very good QB and make the team much better.

    When he didn't perform in that manner right off the bat (and when Russell Wilson and RGIII did), one way of maintaining hope in his career was to attribute his play primarily to his surroundings on the team rather than to him. That created a great deal of confirmation bias around the ideas that 1) the Dolphins' offensive line was far worse than any other team's, and 2) quarterbacks' performances in the NFL hinge on offensive line play a great deal.

    Neither of those beliefs is true, however, and the fact that Tannehill has improved significantly, alongside no significant, measurable improvement in his offensive line, is a testament to it.

    There is still a "residue" of the belief, however, that Tannehill's performance hinges a great deal on the Dolphins' offensive line play.
     
  22. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    To answer those, based on the QB contacts stat:

    1) League variance in 2014: Best = 59 contacts. Worst = 144 contacts. That's 85 difference.
    2) Where do the Dolphins place? Dead last. 144 contacts. So that's a lot of room for improvement.
    3) Degree to which variation in QB play matches OL play. This one is massive. It's likely impossible to know since it will vary depending upon play-style, strategy, QB ability and habits etc. Essentially, OL play will affect different QB's differently. The only fully true statement is that poor OL play will have some kind of negative affect on QB play.

    Having said that, taking a very quick stab at establishing an interaction between OL and QB play, if we look at the scatter graph and the trend line, we can see that there's about a 5 point gain in QBR for every 30 QB contacts. With an 85 contact differential between Miami and the league-best Broncos that suggests Tannehill could improve by almost 15 points. That would take him from 92.8 to 107.8.

    Now, that's obviously a simplistic look at it, and as has been said it's impossible to determine how much of a QBR is affected by OL play, nor how much a QB's own movement helps reduce those hits and sacks (we might consider Peyton Manning's input into the Bronco's league best 59 contacts). It also doesn't take into consideration whether or not the league best Broncos is really good or bad. We'd have to look at similar stats over the years to know where they stand or what an average would be. It is, at least a real figure, though, so definitely attainable.
     
    resnor likes this.
  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I've noticed you've started introducing "confirmation bias" in a lot of arguments. I'd be careful about that because it's a double (or triple) edged sword.

    1) Confirmation bias exists regardless of whether you use "objective" or "subjective" evidence, so in no way can you say that by using stats you are not guilty of it yourself (just the type of stat you look for should be biased towards something that confirms your view, at least according to the theory).

    2) There are so many viewpoints people held before new information came to light that you really can't show which one they are biased towards. To the specific example you gave, I remember a LOT of fans saying Tannehill should sit for a year, or that if he doesn't sit we shouldn't expect him to perform well. So, why did they not continue to believe that instead of what RG3/Luck/Wilson did? Obviously, there are many other beliefs people had other than that one, but you're really just guilty of "confirmation bias" yourself in selecting the one that helps your argument.

    3) (this is the triple-edged sword part).. Seriously, a TON of experiments in that area of psychology are just not trustworthy. I mean, a study might show that if you ask people which of two options is "better" or which is "worse", they might choose the same option in both cases. Clearly, the question itself influenced the result. No doubt about that. But the interpretation is that the information in both cases was the same => people were biased towards some initial impression given by the question. Except that often you can argue the information is NOT the same. I can go into a lot of examples if you want. Point is.. "confirmation bias" isn't really helping your argument.
     
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  24. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Dec 23, 2014
    This (the bolded portion above) is why I think the best and purest measure of offensive line play is the frequency of pressure surrendered on pass dropbacks.

    If you look at both 2013 and 2014, you'll see that Tannehill was pressured more frequently in 2014 (38.4%, 2014, to 33.6% in 2013), but that he was sacked far less frequently when pressured (18.2% in 2014, to 26.1% in 2013, when he was the worst in the league in that regard). His completion percentage while under pressure also rose from 57.7% in 2013, to 64.4% in 2014.

    So, what you see there in my opinion is an offensive line that's allowing him to be pressured slightly more from one year to the next, but a QB who's becoming far more adept at managing pressure, both in terms of avoiding sacks and in how he passes the ball under those conditions.

    Again, all arguments in favor of the belief that intra-QB variables are much more influential than surrounding ones.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I don't think reasonable fans were expecting Ryan Tannehill to hit the league the way RGIII or Russell Wilson did. I think reasonable fans expected what we got. A guy who in his first season showed flashes, but struggled. A guy who in his second year showed more flashes, and not as many struggles. A guy who in his third year (even with a new offense), showed significant improvement, and played like a top 10 QB for 2/3 of the season. The problem was that some very vocal fans kept pushing this narrative that Tannehill was somehow garbage because he wasn't playing as well as Wilson/RGIII/Luck/etc, and IN RESPONSE to those posters, many of these arguments were used: poor oline play, defensive letdowns, poor receiver fits, etc, as a way of adding context to what Tannehill was doing. Don't forget, many posters, myself included, have CONSTANTLY reminded everyone that Tannehill was extremely raw coming in, and that it would take time to develop him to where he needs to be. Some vocal posters couldn't get over the fact that we didn't "Suck for Luck," and were disappointed that we didn't get him.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How about the argument that having to constantly deal with adversity has allowed Tannehill to become adept at playing in adverse conditions? It's kind of a double-edged sword: you have to play in adversity to be able to get good at handling it. If you played behind a great oline, he would probably have better statistics, but not have gained the skills at dealing with pressure that he has gained.
     
  27. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    With regard to confirmation bias among people who are deeply emotionally invested in something, as we are here, I think we should simply acknolwedge that we're all prone to it.

    The best way to balance that here is by using quantitative information and calcuations. The use of quantitative information can be itself biased, and it may not always provide the correct conclusion, but we're going to be wrong far less often going that route than we are in simply using our subjective observations and conclusions in my opinion, in an area this rife with the potential for subjective bias.

    If we were discussing subject matter about which we had far less an emotional investment, we could probably get by much better with only our subjective perceptions.
     
  28. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    That isn't a good argument because, by NFL standards, the frequency of pressure Tannehill has experienced isn't "adverse." It isn't significantly higher than the league norm.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You say that like being at average is good. He was dead last in the amount of pressures. He was almost double the guy in first place. It is significant, whether you want to say it is or not.
     
  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well, we're back to which is better: statistical analysis on poor input data or subjective analysis of richer input data. You can't a priori claim the best approach is stats.

    And while we're talking psychology.. there is actually some evidence that negative emotions enhances accuracy of judgment. So, there's actually evidence that the type of emotional investment matters in terms of judgment of accuracy. Those studies have similar problems to the "confirmation bias" ones, but in both cases there's no question there's something that needs to be explained.
     
  31. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    It isn't necessarily good or bad. It's simply the norm.

    You're not looking at the percentage of pressured pass dropbacks there.
     
  32. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The problem here is the idea that more pressure is somehow worse than more hits. I disagree. I think hits and sacks are far worse than pressures and hurries - pretty much by definition. It can be seen as simply as saying which OL would you prefer, one that lets the QB get sacked and hit more or one that converts hits and sacks into pressures and hurries?

    For me, less hits and less sacks means a better OL, and, generally speaking, I think it's logical to expect that a single, improving OL will see pressures and hurries increase as hits and sacks go down unless they transform themselves into a great OL very quickly.

    I'm fine with saying that any given QB, even Tannehill himself, can be responsible for how he handles pressure and hits. I'm not fine with saying that an OL isn't responsible for allowing that pressure to get to the QB in the first place, or that it isn't the job of the OL to find ways to keep pressure off a QB who struggles with evading it. The whole job of the OL on passing plays is to keep pressure of the QB. That's it. It's what they're there for. If they were irrelevant then they wouldn't be on the field. Bad OL play, by definition, means more pressure on the QB. More pressure on the QB almost always means worse results.
     
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  33. GrimeyGrimes

    GrimeyGrimes New Member

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    Almost half of Tannehills sacks are his fault.
     
  34. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Glad you've been counting. Do you have the exact number?
     
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  35. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    I think you can when no one is providing the sort of subjective analysis that can counter what almost all of us, while watching the Dolphins' games on TV, would've likely assumed to have been the cause of the sacks in this video (starting at the 2:50 mark):

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/0ap2000000269528/Playbook-Dolphins-vs-Patriots

    Again, a statistical analysis won't always be right, but when the "competition" in the form of subjective analysis falls so far short of what we'd need to incorporate what we're seeing in that video, I think it's safe to say the stats will prevail a far greater percentage of the time.
     
  36. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    I didn't say it was worse. I said it was a better and purer measure of offensive line play.

    You sound as if you're agreeing with me there, that pressure is the better way of measuring the play of the offensive line, divorced as much as possible from what the QB is responsible for.
     
  37. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    What's interesting about these discussions about "sacks" is that Tannehill wasn't even sacked a significantly greater number of times than the average team in the league in 2014.
     
  38. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    #3 in the league isn't significantly greater than the average team?????

    He was literally the most sacked in 2013 at #1 and he is #3 most sacked in 2014. both together are #1 over the last 2 years by RIDICULOUS margin.... that's not more than the average team? LOL

    So to recap

    #1 sacked in 2013
    #3 sacked in 2014
    =
    Not worse than the average teams in a 32 team league.

    I'm sure your spin will be "oh I was just saying the NUMBER wasnt THAT MUCH GREATER than the other numbers of teams sacks". Well, It's still an absolutely ridiculous notion.
     
  39. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    We will patiently wait for your proof.
     
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  40. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    The Dolphins were 10th in the league in sacks in 2014.
     

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