Practice report: Highlights from Dolphins rookie camp (Day 2)

Irving Fryar

 

Irving Fryar was very good, a good #1 WR, but I'm not sure I'd call him elite.

 

i agree and its why you pay suh the extra money..plus i didn't see him dog it in games, i think what he did got misconstrued as giving up on plays when he was merely judging when he was out of a play and letting up.

 

forget it, I've tried to explain.

i guess I'm using the word incorrectly..im talking about natural gifts for the position including size speed coordination ratio.

 

forget it, I've tried to explain.

i guess I'm using the word incorrectly..im talking about natural gifts for the position including size speed coordination ratio..

 

we got irving past his prime..still parkers wins.

 

what I define as talent is the ability to do ones position as smoothly and gracefully as possible, position specific movement and coordination skills, plus added size speed ratio in this case.


for example, even though tryonne mathieu wasn't the biggest strongest and fastest I still had him as the most talented defensive back coming out of the draft..his movement skills for the position were the most talented id seen in that draft..

 

DeVante Parker hasn't even caught a single pass in a NFL game yet.

I mean, when we drafted Dion Jordan, some fin fans were ready to anoint him the next Jason Taylor. How did that work out?

 

You guys are not taking about what DJ is taking about.

 

I think the phrase "naturally gifted" fits better with what you mean. Talents can be developed and when I see "most talented wr", I read "wr with the most ability".

 

Calm down lol. Paul Warfield, mark duper, Clayton. Remember them?

 

emoticon with point going over head placed here.

 

Deej... was not the great Juan Huron as gifted as Parker?

 

lol. yes, parker has the most ability, or he's the most naturally gifted, same thing to me, does that mean automatic best production?..no..

 

i forgot the goat.

 

I never compared dion to jason but I certainly thought he was gonna be a great player, unfortunately the mind and heart is hard to judge from our pov.

 

Oh, then I'm back to saying it's ridiculous to say he has the most ability based off of college and a rookie camp.

 

The you need to look at Yatil Green, who before shredding his knees was looking a lot like Parker is now, except maybe even faster.

At a different level is Ted Ginn, who I would say has superior physical talent, Naybe not as good in the air, bit superior speed acceleration and agility. If you remember that 200+ yard receiving game he had against Buffalo, that was Ted Ginn's ceiling and he touched a few times. I still support drafting Ted Ginn because damn if the lights had stayed on at that level he'd have 2000 yard receiving seasons. Ultimately Ted Ginn failed because he was afraid of contact, not for lack of physical talent.

 

He's saying no rookie receiver for us has had the talent and potential that Parker has had.

Now, you may disagree and think Player X has had more talent/potential and that would be valid, but saying its ridiculous based off college and rookie camp doesn't actually make sense compared to his point. He is not saying Parker will end up the best or anything like that, which is what your point would deal with.

 

For the record, talent can not be developed ... Skills and Attitude are the only things you can change or develop.

Talent you are born with ....

 

I get exactly what DJ is saying, the way it makes sense for me, is to watch someone do something where the result is almost an art form. I could watch Ken Griffey Jr swing bat all day, because it was perfect form in motion. Alot of us remember watching Dan Marino throw. Now, there been alot if great QBs, but how many could you just sit and watch them throw, over and over and just be in awe. Watch a figure skater who does a perfect routine, and theres just something different in how they move. Watching DeVante go up and high point a ball ...is like that. There are so many aspects of a WRs game that is far beyond that, so production wise who knows how good he is. But just the perfect form of catching a ball, simple yet elegant. The last small extension of his body, eyes perfect hands perfect, legs perfect. Thats what DJ is talking about and that you are born with, thats god given.

 

Not sure you can really evaluate "talent" based on camp performance alone. For example.. do you guys think one could teach any running back the vision that Barry Sanders had? Suppose you answer no. OK, then that goes under "talent". Do you think you can evaluate that vision from training camp, especially rookie camp? I'd say no. You have to see how they perform in games.

In Parker's case, how does his relative inability to get separation trade off against his massive catch radius in the NFL? Hard to evaluate so far.

 

But thats where your missing what he is saying...all that is still to be decided. Just talking about raw natural catching and playing ability. Not projecting production or anything, just him as an athlete.

 

Natural catching yes, playing no. Do you think the separation issue is correctable to the point he can get as good separation as the best WR's out there? I don't think so (meaning this is part of "talent"). You can look at raw speed, but not how "quick" he is until you look at game tape. All I'm saying is some of his talent can be evaluated now, yes, but some of it cannot. And since people were talking about the overall talent of Parker (not restricting it to just catching ability), then I think you need to wait until he plays to properly evaluate his overall "talent". And yes, I agree "talent" is different than production, because production will depend on his motivation and on the team/scheme etc..

 

Yeah, I think I get what DJ is trying to say. The guy appears to have a stunning combination of gracefulness, balance, awareness and ball-handling skills about him. And FTR, I REALLY was against going WR in the first. I'm happy the Phins took this guy. He really looks special.

Edited to add the following: More to DJ's point, I don't recall seeing a MIA receiver that just looked THAT natural. As to separation, two things: Parker appears to be very focused and humble and I have no doubt he will work on it diligently. Second, he's got plenty of vertical separation. Just throw it over everyone's head and let him go up and get it.

 

I know yatil greens game very well..still, nope, parker is more gifted.

 

lol.. how is it ridiculous to say that based on natural ability/size/speed ratio Parker is the most gifted receiver we've had on our roster?

go ahead and give me your examples of who's more naturally gifted?

 

yes thats exactly what I mean.

 

tedd ginn was faster...


as far as position specific talent, theres no competition..

also..ginn was a buck 75 wet..

 

I'm not basing it on camp performance, I'm basing it on studying the payers movement and size relative to his position, his separation issues are mental.

 

your talking about comparisons to other payers in the league, i said as a dolphin..

how bout this...hes the best receiver prospect we've had in our uniform.

 

yes sir, now just add size/speed ratio to this observation.

 

i think CK has pointed out his weakness as it pertains to his separation issues during the whole draft process, and that is, he doesn't run full speed in route all the time, which allows the defender to stay close to his body...thats a mental thing.

 

Well, that's where we disagree. I don't think he will ever be great at separation (in other words, I doubt he can learn that as well as those who are naturally good at it, meaning it's part of his "talent"). His massive reach should compensate for it to a good degree, but how much? Can't determine that until we see it in NFL games.

I'll agree he's the best natural ball catcher we've had in Dolphins uniform, but overall talent I think still can't be assessed until we see how he does against NFL DB's.

 

No. That is complete BS. Separation has more to do with skill than it does with talent. Well a huge set of skills, but a skill none the less.

If you want to talk about talent alone, Parker has the quickness to use that to gain separation and he has enough speed to also use it with the skill of separating.

 

Well we'll see.. like I said, I doubt he'll ever be great at it.

 

"Size"... that's the thing the other's are missing I think. Warfield, Clayton, Duper, Ginn, Fryar, etc... were all 6-0 or less in height. The relied on savvy and speed mostly. Warfield is probably the closest in natural all-around ability, but he was barely 6-0 and 188 lbs soaking wet. He also started and finished his career with the Browns. Fryar was biggest among those names, but he was at the tail end of his career with us and he didn't have the all around combo you're describing, nor the natural ability that Parker has displayed.

This doesn't diminish them at all, it's just that Parker has natural attributes they didn't and vs versa. If Parker can eventually become a bigger, stronger version of Warfield, then I'm ecstatic. I have no doubt that he'll be just as dynamic when the pads come on.

 

Pretty safe. Most players don't turn out great.

Honestly I don't care if he is great. I just want him to be productive.

 

You added "rookie reciever" and "potential" making that a very different statement then his was.

 

For the record, from Webster's

Talent:

: a special ability that allows someone to do something well
: a person or group of people with a special ability to do something well : a talented person or group


Abilities can absolutely be learned.


How else could talent devolopment be a thing?