I've been a sports' fan since way before you guys were born, and I've never seen this rule anywhere. As I said before, a pretty major rule in society, is don't effect other people adversely with your behavior.....That's called selfishness. So, do you think there should be any limits on "fan" behavior?? Should the guy behind you be able to spill his beer on you all game? Blow smoke in you face? Urinate on you? Pick a fight?
Wow, I should have read this post before I even bothered to respond to you.... I'm not wasting any more time on somebody who thinks like this.
[video=youtube;s3FptLdKo2g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3FptLdKo2g[/video] I believe that was week 15 we were 0-13 We've also had 2 playoff appearance since 2001. And lost both games to Baltimore badly. This team is lucky to have the fan base it does have as far as I'm concerned.
building it correctly means you build the venue with the purpose of putting the stands the absolute closest to the field as possible, both levels....once you do that, just sit back and let it do its thing..its as simple as that. the new upgrades will help relative to what we've had because were moving about 25 thousand seats 20 feet closer, so it will be better..but not to the point of causing what I know is enough of a difference to make a real difference in performance and adrenaline.
listen, if someone is truly disabled, then I'm not going to stand in front of him, i will forgo my right for that, but thats the only excuse...are you disabled?
Dj, I really don't see how the stadium is the root of the attendance problem, as you insist it is. I remember sitting in the stadium during the Marino years, and for several years after his retirement and the vast majority of the seats were full of fans. Those seats were in the exact same position they were in last season and they were as far away from the action as they have been since the stadium was first built. The main difference between then and in recent years is that the Dolphins were a competitive and exciting team in the first 15 years the Dolphins played in the stadium. It was only when they turned into a mediocre franchise, fans started staying away from the games. Hey, the old Orange Bowl was probably the worst stadium in the nation. It had fiberglass seats and the fiberglass was so old, it would peel off and it would stick in your butt and the upper part of your legs. The bathrooms were a joke and the food was terrible. Unless you you were fortunate to find a parking spot in a secure location, you had to park in someone's yard and you were usually blocked in for at least a half hour after the game had ended. Yet with a terrible stadium and lousy parking, the stadium was filled during the glory years of the Dolphins and Hurricanes, because both those teams were winning. You can continue to blame the lack of fan attendance at games on the present stadium, but that doesn't change the fact it is all about putting a winning team in Miami if you want to increase attendance. The Dolphins could have had a stadium built exactly like the stadium in Seattle the last five years and I don't think it would have increased attendance one bit. The fact is there just aren't a lot of die hard Dolphin fans left in the South Florida area. Most of those have moved away or are no longer living. South Florida is a big event type area. People in South Florida show up, whether they are fans or not for big events just so they can be noticed. Going to Dolphin games in recent years is just not a big event to these individuals and with the major influx of new arrivals in South Florida being from others countries or from the Northeast, this certainly hasn't increased the fan base for the Dolphins. In the last few years I attended games, the games with the largest attendance were against the Jets and Patriots. Unfortunately it seemed as if half the stadium was filled with fans of these two teams. With a much smaller fan base than they once had. The Dolphins will only be able to attract new locale fans by becoming the type of team they were during the Shula years. They have to become a consistent winner to attract new fans to the stadium. It is nice that Ross is investing his own money to upgrade the stadium. But it won't make any difference in the number of fans attending games unless the improved stadium is also matched with a much improved team on the field.
yes of course if miami had seattles stadium it would of had the same affect on our fanbase as it has seattles.. sunlife in its original state keeps fans away because it doesn't engage the fan, what don't you understand?, people choose to stay home or sell their tickets because there is not real home field advantage..now if the team gets on a real run and goes on a winning streak then you will see a decent sell out, but the issues with the stadium are consistent so it cant draw on its own, settles venue is the draw don't ya see, the fans have carved their niche into the culture, and now its become a frenzy to go participate..the venue allows them to make a real difference in the outcome of the game and how it affects their players demeanor and performance on the field, they see it in their personality, they see their players acknowledge them, talk about them..its an event there because of the participation of the fans with the players, its a must see type feeling, and the proximity of the stands to the field is the whole reason why.. the dolphin teams never got over the hump that was sun life...but thats over now, new concrete changes things..they actually made a big adjustment, something I've been talking about for decades, and they actually did something, I'm grateful for that...
So it's your opinion that those without disabilities should be forced to change how they enjoy the game, so that someone else can enjoy the game? Why do you feel that a disabled persons right to enjoy the game exceeds the right of a non-disabled person?
Funny,but the exact same things were said about why the Marlins couldn't draw fans to Sun Life Stadium. We were told it wasn't a fan friendly stadium and all that was needed to bring the fans was a modern stadium in the heart of Miami. So the politicians sold out the taxpayers and built the Marlins that brand new stadium on the site of the old Orange Bowl. The result has been that with the same owner and a losing team, the Marlins continue to lead the major leagues in empty seats during home games. Yet when they won their two World Series championships, fans eventually started to fill the seats at Sun Life Stadium during the latter part of each of those seasons, because the team was winning. The fact the stadium was not a good baseball venue was irrelevant, as long as the team was winning games. You will of course argue that the Dolphins are a far more popular professional sports team than the Marlins. While I won't argue with you on that point, you fail to realize that the fan base of the Dolphins today in South Florida is much smaller than it used to be. While the population may be larger today. Most of the new individuals who have relocated to the area were not Dolphin fans when they moved there and the Dolphins have done nothing over the past decade to make these new residents want to become fans of the team. Mediocrity on the field has turned off many would be fans over the last decade. The cost to go to games has become beyond the affordability of many families. I grew up going to games and that is how I learned to love the atmosphere at the stadium and why I was a season ticket holder for as many years as I was. With the blackout no longer an issue. Why should the average fan want to spent several hundred dollars to attend a game, when they can sit at home and watch it in the comfort of their own home? You and I, along with other long time Dolphin fans might love the atmosphere of being at the stadium, but the younger fans just don't feel that way about going to the stadium. I think there will probably be more fans in the stadium early in the 2015 season. They will go because the team looks like it should be better and provide more excitement. I doubt the vast majority of the fans will be there because of the changes to the stadium. If the team has success on the field as the year goes along, fans will continue to go to the games throughout the season. If on the otherhand, they are once again a mediocre team as the season goes along, I expect to see more and more empty seats as the season progresses. I know we will never agree on this issue. Because to me, the product on the field is all that matters and where they play or what condition the stadium might be in is irrelevant. I know you think it is all about atmosphere, but if that were true, the Chiefs would be one of the best teams in the NFL, year in and year out. The Seahawks are a great team because they have a quality HC and great players at several positions. They would have been the NFC representative in the NFL the last two years, no matter where they played their home games. I agree, as a fan having a great atmosphere is exciting and makes for a better feeling inside the stadium. I just think that for the players, talent is far more important, along with a quality HC, than the atmosphere inside the stadium.
your wrong imo. do me one favor..I want you to watch a preseason game in seattle...doesnt matter who's playing, doesn't matter what quarter, doesn't matter the score. last year in the fourth quarter of a blow out game, score was 34 to 3 I believe, with 3rd and 4th stringers taking the field, eery seat was filled, and every fan was standing..absolutely no exaggeration. if you don't think thats venue related then please stop discussing this with me.
Dj, you keep assuming it is the stadium which creates the excitement. Perhaps if you take the time to look at the history of the Seahawks, you will notice that Seahawk fans have always been loud and stood throughout games, even when the games were played in the old Kingdom stadium. A stadium which was a multipurpose stadium, similar to what Sun Life Stadium was built to be. While their new stadium brings the fans closer to the action. It is the support of the fans, through good years and bad years which separates their fan base from the Dolphins fan base. I don't care what stadium you have in South Florida. Dolphin fans are not going to show up and stay to watch 3rd and 4th string players in the preseason. In fact the Dolphins are lucky when they have a third of the stadium filled during preseason games during the hot month of August. As I noted earlier. The Chiefs have what is considered the loudest fan base in the AFC. Yet they really haven't had much success based on the the support they get from their fan base. In fact the most successful organization in the NFL, the Patriots, play in a very standard football stadium. While their fans can get loud on occasion. I really don't think it is the atmosphere in the Patriots stadium which is the reason the team is so successful. It is the fact they have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. So you can have your new and improved stadium in Miami, if that is what you think will improve the product on the field and get more fans in the stadium. As for me, give me a Belichick clone and a second coming of Brady at the QB position and I guarantee you I will put more fans in those seats than any new stadium would ever be able to do with the product the Dolphins have been putting on the field for the past decade.
I was not responding to you on that one. I am not, for me it is personal preference, but I try to think of others who might have other reasons as well...
Lloyd, what I'm getting at, is that either way you fall on the issue, someone's right to enjoy the game the way they want is being infringed. I'm certainly not arguing that we shouldn't be thoughtful of others. I am pointing out, that someone with a disability shouldn't be upset, however, if other fans want to stand and cheer. Perhaps stadiums could have certain sections where fans who are disabled or older could specifically sit, with there being specific rules around standing/blocking others views, in that section.
Which also supports the claim that losing leads to lower attendance. Or is it the other way around? Did the Raiders get bad because the fans suddenly stopped going to games and supporting their team, or did the fans stop supporting them because they got bad? I think the latter makes more sense, don't know about you guys...
Of course it makes sense. Pump up the crowd all you want,any way you want, it wont make any difference whatsoever, if the team doesn't win. Rebuilt stadium, new stadium, strippers, makes no difference.
I obviously think the fans can impact the outgame of games as well, but not to the extent that DJ is saying. You can sell out the stadiums and have everyone cheering their asses off, at the end of the day the players and coaches have to do their jobs... the ones they get paid millions to do. And if the team consistently fails to produce, the fans will turn away. They get conditioned to not cheer, support and spend their money on the teams. It's like you're teaching your dog to sit and half of the time he does sit, you reward him with a treat but the other half you hit him on the snout. He will eventually stop sitting when you tell him to because the risk of getting hurt outweighs the benefits of eating a treat.
Do me a favor, quit using Seattle as a part of your argument. They lost a professional sports franchise right after drafting a franchise changing player in Durant and the fans still harbour a lot of resentment because of that. Their rabid fan base has nothing to do with the stadium, but more about winning and not losing another franchise. Why aren't the Mariners selling out every game at the same stadium?
Not sure how you can argue winning % doesn't generally put more fans in seats. In MLB, the correlation between winning % and home attendance was 0.464 (which is pretty big considering all the variables) between 1973 and 2002 according to this: http://cupola.gettysburg.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=mathfac It's also that high in the NBA: http://letsnba.com/nba-bandwagon-fans/correlation-nba-home-attendance-winning-percentage-since-2000/ And also high in college football: https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordp...contribute-to-attendance-in-college-football/ The NFL won't produce as strong a correlation because attendance is already so high, but check out the attendance figures from 2014: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_attendance_figures Just look at the list of teams that get less than 90% capacity attendance: Oakland (worst at 80%), Washington, Miami, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay. Other than Miami and Pittsburgh, those are many of the worst teams in the NFL in 2014. And look at the list of teams that got at least 100% capacity attendance in 2014: Dallas (best at 110.1%), Green Bay, Indy, Philly, Seahawks, Chicago, Denver, Houston, Baltimore, NE, Tennessee. Other than Chicago and Tennessee, all those had winning records and include many of the best teams in the NFL. Yes, winning generally brings fans to the stadium, and yes the effect tends to be pretty big. So.. what about the effect of a new stadium on attendance? Here's a study that looked at such a "novelty effect" for teams in professional baseball, basketball and football between 1969-2001: http://economics.umbc.edu/files/2014/09/wp_03_1011.pdf Conclusion (quote): "Our results indicate a strong, persistent novelty effect in baseball and basketball and little to no novelty effect in football"
I have been saying that for the past several seasons as attendance keeps declining, but some people think a new stadium will solve the low attendance issue for the Dolphins. The Raiders were always thought of as having one of the biggest fan bases in the NFL. When they were one of the better teams in the league, year after year, their stadium was always full. Yet in recent years, with them turning into one of the worst teams in the league, they only lead the league in the number of times their games have been blacked out on local TV. I have no doubt that once the Raiders turn it around and start winning again, the fans will start showing up at their games again. It always surprises me when the venue is seen as more important than the teams record when it comes to explaining why fans decide not to attend games. As I have stated numerous times, the fans will show up again in mass at Dolphin games once the Dolphins become a consistent winner again. Until then, no matter how much money Ross spends to upgrade the stadium, fans will continue to be replaced by empty seats unless fans observe a significant improvement by the product on the field. The appearance, comfort, and atmosphere of the stadium is merely a secondary issue when it comes to fans deciding to attend a game in person or not.
and like i said Loyd, if you aint disabled then {not at you} then piss off..its a football game not a movie theatre.
your points prove my points..of course I'm gonna use seattle because their stadium is the right model, just like I have been talking about and they are reaping the benefits because of it.. their rabid fanbase has nothing to do with their stadium... ok man, holy sh&6 dude do you have some thick blinders on lol. btw, the mariners do not play at the link... i have no idea of your point about losing their basketball team..
this might be the silliest crusade you've ever been on DJ. The Seattle crowd goes crazy regardless of the circumstance because the team is a perennial winner and superbowl champ in recent history. If you think it's because of the venue..well, then you're hopeless on this particular cause.
Correct, they play right next (literally) to Century Link at Safeco Field. The stadium can have a small (when counting everything involved in a sporting event) effect to the game being played. But to take it to the "build it and they will come level" is a stretch. Fans spend money to see a winning product first and foremost and you're the one with blinders if you do not see that.
G On one hand...it's kinda pathetic the team and crowd got THAT hyped over one win... On the other...what does that say about the fans in attendance, to watch a team who hasn't won a game ALL year? Those are some awesome fkn fans. If we manage to start this year like I think, that place will be packed and rockin'!
I think everyone is right. I think a winning team is the first thing that gets fans in the stadium. HOWEVER, I think a venue like Seattle gets fans crazy in the stadium. They're a part of the team, not simply a spectator. That feeling, of being a part of the team, I think will keep those fans going, even in down years, as the fans truly believe they can affect the game. But, I do think it starts with a winning culture. It's a symbiotic relationship.
Always happy to have a mature discussion. I love people who think their opinions are facts, and have to resort to insults because they can't handle people questioning them.....
Nobody got time to watch a baseball team that can barely score 3 runs per game.. boringgggggggggggggg they got some nice pitching though.
I remember celebrating like we won the superbowl. I had sat through all 13 losses. It was such a relief not only to finally win a game but to not go winless. Thinking back that is pretty embarrassing. That's why I say... The Dolphins are lucky to have such a big fan base.
give me some logical reasons why I should sit down for a person when the point of a home field advantage is to help my team win?...besides being disabled.
And where does the disability argument end? What if someone is hard of hearing? Should I not yell and cheer at the game? At some point, people need to realize, that when you go to a public place, not only should people be cognizant of you, but you need to be cognizant of others. As soon as you argue that someone else should do something differently because they are affecting you, you are now affecting them.
Attending a public sporting event isn't an individual going into a public place? I mean, actually, if you're arguing that a professional sports team's stadium is essentially a private club, then you'd be ok with them excluding whoever they want. Since it's private, and all. The reality is, it's a public event. Of course, you also are failing to add anything to the discussion, which is about where individual rights come into play, and why preferring the rights of one individual over another is ok at a public event.
