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Brady destroyed his phone, suspension will be upheld

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by RickyNeverInhaled, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    We'll never know for sure...or even at a highly suggestive rate...particularly since their legacy of cheating has completely clouded the issue...and now if BB cheats again, he's banned from the NFL, so he's either going to have to stop or be REEEEEALLY careful of his cheating. Additionally, I don't think they win 4 super bowls and go on to 6 without fkng cheating...so it's moot.

    Edit: Brady was just another guy for many years...everybody forgets that 'cuz they get jewelry blinded. He didn't lose the super bowls for them...I guess there's that.
     
  2. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    Tom Brady - QB - Patriots

    PFT's Mike Florio reports the NFL offered suspended QB Tom Brady a two-game reduction on his four-game suspension in exchange for a guilty admission.

    Per Florio's source, Brady had to admit to admit to having knowledge of whatever ball men John Jastremski and Jim McNally were doing to the footballs, admit to failing to cooperate with the Ted Wells investigation and the apologize. Brady's ban would have then dropped to at least two games and possibly one. It appears Brady is dead-set on taking the NFL to court to get his suspension wiped out completely or he's going to take the heat and sit the four games.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football
     
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  3. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Bull****

    -Yale graduate
     
  4. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    What a maroon.
     
  5. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Wow if true Brady really is a moron.
     
  6. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a moron with a vagina.
     
  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Maybe it's just genius. He's gonna do the Roger Clemens thing. Got nothing to lose at this point.
     
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  8. PhinsMondayNitro

    PhinsMondayNitro Active Member

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    With our luck they'll start 4-0 & we'll start 0-4
     
  9. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Lmao this does show that Brady cares more about his legacy than the Patriots. How do you not accept a reduced punishment and suit up for Week 3? You may have costed your team four losses instead of possibly just two. Pathetic.

    And funny how you mention Clemens, I mentioned Tonya Harding. Thats the group Brady is in now. Alex Rodriguez is a cheater, but he atleast admitted to lying and cheating. Cheating and still lying about your innocense after the fact is dispicable.
     
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  10. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    There's no long term damage done.

    1). At this point, nobody cares about deflate gate except Bills, Jets, and Dolphins fans. I think most NFL fans are sick of hearing about it tbh.
    2). The NFL still doesn't have hard evidence, even though he did...
    3). With properly inflated footballs, he kicked Seattle's ***. Deflate gate won't have a long half-life like steroids in baseball. And if he has a strong 12/16 games (assuming his suspension holds up in court), that will erase any doubt that Tom Brady is one of the GOATs.
    4). Tom Brady claims he wants to play till his mid-40's. I don't know if that happens, but he'll likely play a few more years. Enough time for everyone to forget and move on. Especially if wins a 5th ring.


    This too shall pass.
     
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  11. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    That's not at all accurate . Several owners/teams were adamant that the suspension not be reduced and that was before the news of the phone being destroyed became public knowledge.

    The Patriots don't have only friends amongst other teams , owners and management , let alone fan bases .
     
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  12. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Fantasy owners too. They care...

    We're talking about legacy. Do the NFL fans want some blood? Sure. Do they REALLY care about deflate gate? Not really, outside of the AFC East. Maybe some Colts fans too. Like us, they hate Brady for a number of reasons and this is just another to add to the list. Deflate gate has become over saturated in the sports world and NFL fans are ready to move on by in large.
     
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  13. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    You may be right. Honestly, if it had gone the "expected" route and Brady's suspension had been completely overturned, I wouldn't have batted an eye.

    Since it wasn't, I'm reveling in the dismay of Pats' fans. lol
     
  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  15. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  16. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    In reality, I think "Deflate-gate" is an extraordinarily minor issue. It's cheating but less than scuffing a baseball. And, I don't think it changes how good a QB Brady has been. Further, I think the NFL mishandled this as well - as well as their rules about the footballs and handling of them prior to games throughout the seasons (if it's that big of a deal, then why do you allow teams to handle the footballs?). In fact, if Brady had handled things even the slightest bit differently (even with his having skirting the rules), his case and the NFLPA's case would have been much tougher and Goodell would have had to significantly reduce the suspension.

    However, Brady has just absolutely killed himself as far as integrity and credibility throughout. It's certainly not the level of steroids, but there are some astounding parallels between Brady and Clemens as lmeister mentions. First thing I thought about as well. I mean, there were a number of chances for Brady to come out much better on this and he just choked it away with arrogance. Unbelievable. But, this is what athletes seem to do - Still, did Brady not watch Roger Clemens destroy himself completely in the public eye for over a year? And, regardless of how small the issue is (and it is small, and fans do want it to go away, imo, other than AFCE rivals of the Pats), Brady continually is playing a card that's a loser.

    Brady is on the river card trying to tell everyone he's got two aces and everyone at the table knows he's got a 2 and 7 in different suits. He should have folded a long time ago. Brady had so many chances but it's simple: Don't freak out with his ball guy - calling him; texting him; etc. Just plan to text or call and meet once and put it on himself. He could have told the league after the SB simply, "Yeah, I pushed those guys to get the ball as low as possible and if it happened to accidentally drop on the edge or slightly below 12.5, no one would complain. I shouldn't have pushed it that and I take responsibility." If he had said that, he'd probably get one game, and people would appreciate some level of culpability.

    Wonder how many millions he will have lost in endorsements into the future?

    And, I think at this point, the best thing he can do is to do a mea culpa. Actually, just make the above statement. He could come up with all sorts of excuses - "I didn't want to let my team down and miss any games so I fought that ... etc." But, the lawsuit is a loser at this point. Especially after the destroyed cell phone.
     
  17. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Looks like the Patriots got some leaks of their own...


    Patriots Hit Piece
     
  18. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Saw that. At this point it's difficult to know who is spinning things more.

    Apparently what they gave the NFL was a manually created spreadsheet of numbers Brady supposedly contacted. Not sure how they could prove they didn't miss anyone off. Even if they did, the NFL would have to approach every single individual to ask permission to access their phone and look at their text messages, which, of course, they could refuse. Now, the League could have ruled out any numbers/individuals not connected with the Patriots or without access to the footballs or directly linked to people who did have such access. Presumably, though, the League would already have spoken with those individuals, like the ball boys, and got that information. Not sure what that grand offer of a spreadsheet really would have done. One might wonder what, exactly they wanted from Brady's phone, since any conversation in text messages would have been on any of the involved phones. Most likely it was just to compare those conversations and see if everything matched up?

    One would guess that at this point it isn't so much about the content of the texts but that Brady not only refused to grant access to the messages but destroyed a requested phone after he had been asked for it. Why would anyone do that? That's the question. It could be a ridiculously dumb move by an innocent man not thinking clearly. It could be to cover up guilt. It could be because of other unrelated but confidential or embarrassing information on that phone that he wouldn't want to risk exposing. Then again, when will people learn that phones are not secure devices and one shouldn't put or keep anything confidential or sensitive on them? At this point, no-one knows and will know, unless (and I'm not sure this is legally possible or likely) a legal court case ends up pulling the phone records. The case wouldn't be about his guilt or innocence though, it would be about whether the NFL got the ruling right based on what has already transpired and known.
     
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  19. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I honestly don't understand how its less than scuffing a baseball, when the fumble numbers prove how much of an advantage it gives.

    I truly think some just can't except the Pats reign has been a lie.
     
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  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Remove Brady from the equation. Let's pretend it's Ryan Tannehill here. Nobody takes issue with how the NFL has handled this? First, the information directly from the NFL that was 100% wrong about the level of deflation. Once that leaked everyone assumed the deflation must have occurred. Saying 11 out of 12 footballs were 2 pounds under. Turned out to be false but the damage was done and more importantly for the NFL, the narrative set.

    Same with the cell phone. All we hear is, he destroyed it. If Brady retrieves his phone bill from the carrier, it will list all the numbers he sent text messages to. The NFL said it was impractical to chase the messages down. You just spent millions paying Ted Wells. No, it's not impractical, it's quite easy if Brady was cooperating. A paralegal could do it within a matter of a few thousand billable hours.

    For some reason here, the NFL is indeed destroying one of its greatest all time players over a minor offense, guilty or not. It's terribly odd. Then popularity of the NFL isn't going to last forever, and things like Ray Rice, suspensions, and this, while not bringing down the NFL all at once, do chip at it.
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tom's rebuttal about the cell phone:

    If Tom's lawyers can produce that documentation the NFL is acting quite shady with that release. The language used here is very calculated. As a member of the union, demand for the cell phone must be allowed under the CBA.

    Also claims it was broken, not destroyed.

    This will be interesting in Federal Court.
     
  23. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the NFL will counter argue by saying that Brady had a duty to preserve his cell phone based on impending litigation, which is an easy hurdle to clear if Brady ever made the threat to take the NFL to court if they didn't vacate his suspension. The phone would have been given over in discovery. "Sorry, I didn't know I couldn't do that" and/or bad legal advise are not valid forms of defense here.
     
  24. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    cognitive dissonance.
     
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  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    He's alluded to it before.
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The identify of the texts and calls isn't in question. They received those from the equipment manager. They followed up with the equipment manager, asked for the contents of the messages, and the equipment manager refused. That is why they asked Brady for them.
     
  27. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    wow. kraft is making this out to be a witch hunt from the league office. poor Patriots. and, on top of that I just her Baldinger and Billick just have a conversation about the best QB in the AFCE during Brady's suspension, "Garopalo is possibly the best QB in the AFCE..." "that would be comical if it wasn't true..." smh
     
  28. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    They didn't know they were gonna win that game like they did, in retrospect it isnt the reason they won but they cheated before the game started to give them an advantage, if it was a close game it would have been the reason they won.
     
  29. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget how the patriots hardly ever fumble and players that use to play for the pats magically have problems fumbling when they play for another team. They have been doing this for years
     
  30. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Well now this is just becoming extremely messy. Think I'm just going to tune out this whole story until the result is done.

    Pats anyway. Worse case scenario it's Pats as usual.

    Come on Dolphins!
     
  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    there is no evidence that psi affects fumble rate.

    Anyways this guy said it on SC, if Brady had just said from the start that he likes the balls on the low end of psi and the equipment guys made a mistake, then this would have been over long ago.
     
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  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I just know that personally when I played with a slightly deflated ball it was far easier to catch and hold onto while taking a hit. I can't speak to passing personally, but it seems obvious that it would easier to grip for anybody with smaller hands as well. And knowing how big of a factor TOs are in relation to winning, it's ridiculous to claim this is minor.
     
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  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The thing is that the first investigator didn't even demand to see the cell phone. All he asked was that Brady's lawyer read him the messages that the equipment guy was responding to and Brady's response back. The investigator said he would trust Brady's lawyer to read the truth. Brady refused. So there was no concern about other info on the phone, about him cheating on Giselle or any thing else. There may be other incriminating stuff on the phone of course, but at that point that was the only text and phone info they were seeking. The natural inference is that that info proved his guilt. And I don't know about NY or what ever jurisdiction will hear this, but when evidence is destroyed many if not most jurisdictions will automatically make the inference that the evidence was damaging to the spoliating (destroying) party. When I listened to the investigator being interviewed, my impression was that was the investigator's inference although he carefully avoided saying it. So I don't buy these claims that "there is no evidence". There is considerable circumstantial evidence and direct evidence was most likely destroyed by Brady.
     
  34. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    A lot of different excuses/reasons have been put out there about the phone. Some may not have come from Brady or Brady's camp, but many of them are inconsistent. The first I heard was that it was Brady's routine and policy to destroy his phone every few months, which simply sounds bizarre, but. . . Now the story is that the phone was broken, and it was not routine destruction. Of course, the timing is extremely suspicious either way, especially since it took Brady and his people many months to even disclose that the phone was destroyed. Some have suggested he was unwilling to turn it over from privacy concerns, but those can easily and adequately be dealt with by entering into a confidentiality agreement. Sensitive documents about things much more important than this are exchanged in discovery all the time subject to confidentiality agreements. There's also the suggestion that he didn't turn it over because the CBA didn't require it or permit it (or because Brady's reps made clear his phone would not be available under any circumstances), which is entirely different than all of the other reasons/excuses. So which is it? If it was routine periodic destruction, it shouldn't matter if it was broken or not. And if it was, was that just a huge coincidence in addition to the coincidence that it happened right before the meeting with investigators? If it was broken and/or already routinely destroyed, then the privacy arguments are irrelevant and moot. Same for the CBA arguments. Seems like a lot of arguments in the alternative, which are often (but not always) suspect -- I wasn't there, but if I was there I didn't kill her, but if I did kill her it was self-defense, but if it wasn't self-defense, I was temporarily insane, but if I wasn't temporarily insane I am permanently insane, but if not legally insance, then simply not competent to sit for trial. . . .
     
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  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I agree, Tom Brady cheated. The fumble numbers are probably influenced by the deflated footballs and this is a serious issue. There's only one problem... We're the only ones who truly care.

    Outside of teams who might of been the most impacted by it (AFC East), fans don't give a ****. Which is why I don't think this will leave a black mark on Tom Brady's legacy. Should it? Probably, yes. But it won't because fans don't care. The fact that Brady showed he was capable of playing great with properly inflated footballs goes a long way in the average fans mind. It was an interesting story when it first broke, but has since become so over saturated, it's lost potency among the majority of fans.

    Think of this like spygate, which was arguably more serious of an offense... Spygate doesn't mean **** in 2015. Sure, we joke about it, stick in the pats fans faces, but at the end of the day, 4 rings. NE has 4 rings since 2001. The majority of fans don't give a rats *** if they're tainted or not. Hell, a majority of the fans don't even know about the radio device that was in TB12's helmet, illegally giving him contact w/staff. And the ones who do, don't care about that either.


    Bottom line, history is written by the winners. We love winners. Merica', home of the winners. Tom Brady is the ultimate winner in the NFL. Right now, he's eating ****. But it will pass. And if the Pats manage to win the division or make the playoffs, suddenly the narrative shifts from "those cheating bastards!" to "See, that's what happens when you piss off Bill Belichick and Tom Brady." NE can easily turn this negative into a positive by seasons end. Which is why I'm not sure why anyone thinks deflate gate really matters in regards to legacy. Tom Brady isn't Barry Bonds or Roger Clemons in this situation. As some have noted, "the cover up was far worse than the crime." I don't agree with that. The crime was pretty serious, if fumble numbers are any indication... But most people don't see it that way.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree that we're the only ones who care. This is a major topic on national sports talk. Sure, it's a a slow time in the news cycle, but it's still being discussed ad nauseam by fans of various NFL teams. Reality is that this created an asterisk. Brady will still be a first ballot HOFer, but his legacy is tarnished. It may or may not be worse than spygate, but it is additive. It's now this and spygate. And this may be worse than spygate for Brady personally. I think he's damaging his likeability among the fans of other teams who didn't already hate him. I get the sense that there's almost a sense of personal insult as more and more ridiculous explanations are put forth. Most people outside of Boston or his apologists recognize it's obvious that Brady is lying and nobody enjoys being lied to. Even the ones who don't take it personal still look at him as a liar and a poor one at that. Some of those think the cheating was a big deal and some don't, but regardless the term "cheatriots" has become more ubiquitous. It may be getting to the point that that is how this dynasty will be known. The "perfect Dolphins", the Steel Curtain Steelers", the "Doomsday Cowboys", the "Cheatriots".
     
  37. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think you are wrong. Pats fans don't care and want this whole thing to go away but by and large NFL fans in general are tired of the Pats and the favors they seems to have been getting for quite some time now. even the owners are tired of it. Kraft is making this an us against them issue now and I really think that is going to blow up in their faces just because fans are sick of this.
     
  38. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is just not true. Yes, NE is at the top but it's not so outrageous it's a res ipsa loquitur issue here (yeah I dropped a law school term on you).

    Once you isolate the QB which largely depends on how quick the QB gets rid of the ball, and how many times they scramble, (Patriots and Colts led the league in 2007-2014 in fumbles per play, due in large part to their quick to throw QBs) their numbers are at the top, but not outrageously so.

    This is their fumble rate per 100 carries:
    [​IMG]

    And this is their fumble rate per 100 catches:
    [​IMG]

    They're not even in first, when it comes to receptions. As for the fumbles on carries, their advantage amounts to an extra 1.5 fumbles a year on carries, to bring them into the average. I'm no statistician, but that doesn't sound statistically significant and is offset by the fact they're not even in first place on fumbles per reception.

    http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-...atriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710/1702950988

    Notice alot the teams with the least fumbles are out door, cold weather teams.
     
  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've already debunked the fumble issue in the past, but you guys keep bringing it up. Please, review the REAL numbers and see if it's true. The original analysis was this from Sharp:

    [​IMG]

    Did anyone stop to review the number? Look at Brandon Tate. 3 touches per fumble. Does that sound even remotely possible to anyone? 35 touches, 11 fumbles. How does that happen? The geniuses over at sharp analysis added in his special team fumbles, but not special team touches (ST's use the K balls).

    All 11 of Tate's fumbles came on ST which uses those K balls. So he had 35 touches, and 0 fumbles. If you subtract just this one mistake, patriot players fumbled once every 105 touches while with the Patriots, and once every 100 fumbles (1403 touches divided by 14 fumbles) while on other teams.

    So why does that false accusation keep getting regurgitated? LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!
     
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