Let's Discuss the Offensive Line -- 2015 Edition

I think a couple more practices they should have enough film to make an accurate eval..also if they know albert will be ready to go they might just stay put..but if they don't think he'll be ready their playing with fire not signing him before camp started..

 

With the rook beating Thomas out (according to reports anyway), and Thomas played that position decently last year, is this an indictment of Thomas' play or is the rook just ready to rock?

I'd like to think its the latter...but it I'm certainly no expert.

 

The OL and coaching are the two biggest questions marks. For all the 'change' mentioned on the OL, I don't see it yet. Turner and Douglas are unknown quantities, so I'd to see them step up and get strengthen the line, but, they might not. Albert is good, but he's not playing yet, and when he does, we better pray he's the same Albert and that he doesn't get re-injured. Just about the only bright spot on the unit is James at RT but that's the thing with the OL. Maybe more than any other unit they have to be able to work together, to work as a unit. With so many unknown quantities and new faces the OL might prove to be our achilles heel for the third straight year.

I really hope things turn out well, but if they don't, we might end seeing another 8-8 year, finishing 3rd in the division, and there will even be the risk of an injured Tannehill. This division is far too brutal in terms of defensive squads to have a sub-par OL. I think it's significant enough that I'd be willing to trade talent from elsewhere on the roster, maybe the DL, in order to try to strengthen the line - that is, if there were any viable trades.

 

You think we have it bad at OG? Patriots are starting 2 rookies at OG and they gotta go up against Suh and Wilkerson, Richardson, L Williams and K Williams, M Dareus. I expect those OGs to get eaten alive.

 

Kill

How about we try to work a trade with Dallas....trade them Matthews, Misi, plus maybe a fourth rounder for Zach Martin, and then we sign Mathis and maybe try and find a good LT prospect that another team tries to slip through the waiver wire..I am just not sure how much longer that Brandon Albert will be able to play so I want another LT and he may just be on our roster in Billy Turner...He was pretty good in college and if we could pull off a trade for Martin and sign Mathes then coach Benton should get Turner back to his natural LT position.

 

Hate to burst bubbles but you must value Matthews and Misi more then others cuz no way do those 2 guys and a 4th rounder get Zach Martin... Dallas looks like they know what they are doing nowadays and no way does an underwhelming Misi and a #4 WR Matthews get a All Pro OG. It is good to dream I guess though. We could maybe trade Jelani, Matthews and a 2nd Rounder might do the trick, but I rather not trade our only proven/good/high ceiling LB on the team.

 

The Dolphins right now have a big issue at Guard, and quietly hoping someone develops on the spot is irresponsible given how bad the position looks. You're looking at one, probably two gameplan damaging starters. Practicing against Suh isn't going to magically make them better, if anything it's going to destroy their confidence before games have even started.

If not Mathis, they need to call up Rob Sims or do something.

 

Every team has relied on players to develop at a given position. Not sure why the Dolphins are all of a sudden unique.

 

Not quite sure where the perception of Albert comes from that he is injury prone. I'll have to look up the numbers but I saw awhile back, either an article or posting here his games missed throughout his career and the long and short is he just hasn't missed many. Until he got caught up with that hit from behind last year he had never really missed any significant time nor had a major injury.

 

While I agree that we he have our biggest question marks at OG and coaching, I do think we can be competent in both areas. I'm not even looking for average. I just want competent. Reality is that no team is set everywhere. Miami is arguably better off than most. As long as your weak points are at least competent then your fortunes largely rest on your great players. That's what you see all over the league year after year. The Pats are far from a complete team almost every season, but they have been great at QB and coaching. Every team has weak points and they rely on their stars to carry them. In past seasons I don't believe we've had enough stars to carry our weak points. This year I think we have a few areas on our team that can be great. Our DL is obviously stacked and could potentially be one of if not the best in the league. More than a few SB winners have gotten there on the back of a great DL alone. I also believe our QB and receiving group should be no worse than top 10 this year and potentially even better than that. I'm also starting to think that our safety group can be very good. If those areas play like stars and our weak points are just competent then this could be a very good season. Like every other team in the FA era injuries could always derail us, but I don't see us as being anymore at risk for that than any other team.

 

The Dolphins have more than enough talent to compensate for bad guards.

 

I honestly think we should hold some judgement on the state of the OL at least until our first preseason game. We do have one of the best DL in the league after all and I'm certain most, if not all the OLs in the league would have trouble facing them. Heck, Suh dominated the interior of Dallas' OL, which is widely considered to be the best in the league.

 

They arent of course, and its the preferred way to go.

The issue is the guys they are developing "so far" do not appear to have separated them selves like I think they wanted them to. I think they were hoping by this time, Billy Turner would have locked up the right guard spot...leaving them with just the left guard position to figure out. When your line has been as abysmal as it has for the last few years, you start to wonder why we arent having some of these guards begin to distinguish themselves.

 

Probably because we have already tried this with this exact position and it's been an absolute failure.

The coaches are still hoping Thomas develops into something more worthwhile than "turnstyle".

 

It's not uncommon for teams to have unsettled positions, but it's a bad sign when you're basically forced to pull something out of your ***.

Even worse is when you have no reason to believe your coaches can tell a turd from anything else.

 

As much as I dislike Dallas Thomas, when he was at guard last year he wasn't really terrible. It was when they bounced him to the right tackle spot, and left him there far too long, that he really stunk up the joint. It is telling however, that he hasn't separated himself from a 4th round rookie in camp so far.

 

And for the most part I do agree with this, however I remember a few years back we thought we had a good o line and a great d line in camp. There were a number of reports, similar to this season, how the D line was having it's way with the o Line. At the time we all kind of thought it was just how great the D line was. It wasn't till the season started and we realized just how bad the o line was. So I would be very careful with seeing what we want to see.

 

I agree that Thomas wasn't terrible at G last year. In fact, I would say he was competent there (compared to how abysmal he was a T). But I don't see it as an indictment that he may be losing out to Douglas. As I've posted a few times, I believe that Douglas was the best possible G we could have drafted. I don't care whether he was a 4th round pick. For this team I would rather have Douglas than any of the 1st round guys we could have taken (Scherff was the only other OL I would have taken over him for this team). My hope is that Thomas can be a depth player for us behind Turner and Douglas. I do believe that all three should be at least competent. But even competent Gs will struggle against some of the stellar DLs we'll face this year so Miami will have to rely on Lazor and our other stars to compensate.

 

Well, correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Thomas gave up a sack last year when he was playing guard. He backed that up by giving up 7 at Right Tackle in 4 or 5 games and that is what most people remember.

Clearly he is NOT a Right Tackle.

 

Who cares that the Patriots have two rookie guards? They have shown over the past decade they can adapt to new players on both offense and defense. The Dolphins under Philbin have not shown this same ability.
The fact the Dolphins still have a huge question mark at both their guard positions and are iffy as to when Alberts will be 100%, is by far the biggest concern for this team heading into the regular season, IMO.

 

I agree 100%.

 

I agree, but I don't think its a bad thing. The fact that people's main concern is OG says that the rest of the team is in very good shape.

I see a handful of games where opposing D Lines will be able to hurt the offense. Meanwhile Suh and co will be wreaking havoc on opposing offensive lines virtually every week.

 

You bring that bolded point up a lot and yes, compared to having a problem elsewhere, I agree. But man, things would calm down a lot for some of us if we could just sign Mathis.

 

What helps too is I believe Lazor is actually a strength on the coaching side. While Philbin is weak, as long as he plays a hands-off role then I think our offense can flourish...pretty impressive the growth and upside I see in Lazor's scheme, passing and running both. So on the defense, let the DL dominate, on offense, Lazor + Tannehill stepping up with a well-matched WR corps....these are what allow us to be in that Super-Bowl 'sleeper' category ( which for me, to be realistic, still means a definite underdog )

 

Dallas Thomas not giving up a sack at Guard last year is small consolation, and more like a novel anomaly given how often he gave up pressure at the position.

He was pretty well trash there too and expecting him to be a viable starter is a mistake.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that. At OG he faced a disproportionately tough set of pass rushing DTs in a relatively small sample size. Going by Pass Rush Productivity (PRP) according to PFF, in the 6 games Thomas played OG the Dolphins faced the DTs with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 13th, 14th, 19th and 24th highest PRPs in the NFL last year. That is a tough lineup to face in one's first real NFL action. That he didn't give up a sack (and only 2 QB hits) shouldn't necessarily be chalked up as a novel anomaly and I don't think it's fair to say he was "trash." That said, I agree that it may be dangerous to count on him as a starter (which the Dolphins are not) and I would certainly bring in Mathis and let Douglas, Thomas and Turner battle for the other starting OG spot.

 

That's just not true. Look at the Pats oline.

Again, are major and really the only significant weakness is that the guard position isn't settled after the first 2 or 3 training camp sessions. That is incredible and a vast difference then years past....yet the negativity levels stay the same.

 

I was really hoping that the Cheatriots trading away their best lineman at the start of the season would end up biting them in the a$$.

 

That's the reality of having a bad player, though. You've got these potentially disastrous match-ups vs. marque players, and it's not really like you're suddenly free from them either. You've got two games a year vs. the Jets and Bills interiors which are a big party of it, and plenty of quality opponents that can line up over Guard this year.

It isn't really an elite player thing either. Dallas Thomas had **** games against pretty ordinary opponents too.

 

The Patriots are maybe the best in the league at doing that.

The Dolphins haven't shown an ability to figure out who their best five are appropriately, much less fill the gaps with acceptable players.

 

We really won’t know how much of an issue the O-line is until we get some real snaps which at the very least means preseason. The fact that preseason can still be soft on players and that match-ups can still be easy for linemen means I'd hesitate to really make a call on the guard situation until they start over- or under-performing during the regular season.

At this point, I think it’s safe to say Miami isn’t making any moves. My bet would be that it’s either going to be Thomas and Turner or Turner and Douglas.

When we face Jacksonville and Buffalo in weeks 2 and 3 we’ll be able to say how bad a shape we’re really in. If we look decent during that first month of the season, I won’t be too worried.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/01/08/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings/

Dead last in the league last year. A horrible,total horse crap,nauseating,^%$#, of an offensive line............and the response of the front office is to sign discarded weakest link players Walton and Linkenbach, and then a fourth round draft pick.

What is this wait and see bs?? Everyone saw what we had last year and they did little, almost nothing to improve. The Dolphin FO has been grossly negligent in their dealing with the OL.

Anyone who thinks Albert is going to return to last year's form when he was the healthiest he had been since college is going to be sadly disappointed. His injury was severe and he isn't young anymore.

Pouncey is a paper tiger and he showed that last year in a big way.

James isn't going to all of a sudden go from rock bottom in the league in tackle rankings to top ten just because he is staying at RT only. Of course he will be better, he can't get much worse than last year, but to expect him to grade in the top half of OT's in the league is unrealistic.

The Dolphins FO and a great deal of the fan base is delusional.

They don't realize just how desperate they are. They should sign Mathis yesterday and get down on their knees and pray they can put together a cohesive unit that will at least hold it's own.

 

I really think the injury to Albert should still be a major concern. He had a very serious knee injury and as we saw with Jake Long, once he started having knee issues, his play seemed to decline quite a bit.

While Albert is probably still the best option at LT. Expecting him to come back and play at the same level he did prior to the injury is probably just wishful thinking by the fan base. Hopefully he can return an play at close to the level he did last year, but after watching Pouncey play at a subpar level after returning from injury last year. It is probably safe to assume Albert is going to have several up and down games once he does get back into the starting rotation.

 

Of course they weren't really disastrous because he didn't give up any sacks at G and only 2 QB hits. Yeah, he gave up about 2 hurries a game to the likes of Suh, KWilliams, Dareus, etc. That's not disastrous either. And he really didn't have such **** games against ordinary opponents while at G. Which game(s) are you referring to?

But again, I'd still like to bring in Mathis.

 

I'm a Met fan also. They made an awesome trade at the deadline last week. Why? Because they knew they were close and that trade just may have put them over the top especially with their pitching staff. They traded away a pitching prospect, someone who may have counted in their future, BUT, they realized they are living in the now and went for it.

Same thing here with the Fins. We are in the now and on paper we can probably compete with anyone. Mathis may put us over the top offensively. Miami brass needs to worry about tomorrow....tomorrow. This needs to get done if we are gonna be taken seriously and if we really wanna win.

 

I def agree. Mathis would be a great addition. But if he goes elsewhere I still think we have the pieces in place to field a very effective offense.

IMO OG has about as much impact on wins and losses as kicker or punter. It's nice to have a great one but anything above terrible can be worked around provided the rest of the offense is in good shape, which I believe is the case in Miami. I'd worry about OG vs the Jets, Bills and maybe Houston. Other than those five games, Dolphins' opponents will have bigger problems at OG than the Dolphins will.