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Miami Dolphins Ryan Tannehill: Judge me on wins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    And you get rings by Just Winning!
     
  2. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You know better....these dorks want to string you up if you have even the slightest criticism of Tanny...where have you been all offseason!!
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's about average.

    I would like him to be the best.

    He wasn't so hot in the intermediate range either, if you follow PFF (and Philbin)
     
  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hartline was always a 15 ypc guy. The reason Hartline became a 1,000 yard receiver is because you subtracted Marshall and his targets, and all of a sudden Hartline is your #1. His ypc and catch rate were similar between his 2011 and 2012 season. Tannehill didn't make Hartline any better. He just threw it at him more.

    http://www.fftoday.com/stats/players/11108/Brian_Hartline

    Look at that. He's above 1,000 yards when he gets 130 targets. His YPC is actually lower under Tannehill. Which means on an efficiency basis he is WORSE under Tanny ;) That's because Tanny can't throw it past 12 yards ... ;)
     
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The stage is set for Tanny to take the next step. High 90s rating, couple signature wins, playoffs. No excuses at WR or TE (unless Cameron goes scrambled eggs on us). Unless the guard play really, really lets us down.

    But then we get to fire Philbin and that's a win.
     
  7. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    I have yet to see anyone defend Tannehill and say he's perfect. No one absolves him of any issues when it comes to his performance. What we get are clowns that want to sell us on Tannehill being a crap QB that can't hit the long ball, then give half baked stats and change standards to prove their points. It takes two to Tango. Tannehill had trouble connecting with Wallace's speed, he was so erratic and inconsistent, rarely making effort to get the ball. Tannehill could never seem to anticipate his speed correctly. They just never made that connection. I think both are going to be just fine now that the pressure for Tannehill to hit Wallace 60+ yards down the field in stride is gone.
     
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  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Crap QB ehhh? I think you have the discussion very twisted personally.

    What you ACTUALLY have is a handful of posters who like Ryan, are happy to have Ryan, who feel like he needs to improve on 'X'....then you have another handful who simply aren't capable of hearing he needs to improve on 'X'.
     
  9. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    ..and then there are those that hate and make it known and if you don't agree then you are the fool. discussions are discussions. no one expects to have everyone absolutely agree on everything, that's the idea of forums such as this. what gets old are the absolutes that are indignant that people actually have apposing views regardless of the crap they spew.
     
  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I will gladly accept some examples of people saying Ryan is crap etc. what you are doing is following the straw man argument that people dislike or even hate Ryan (or think he is crap) normally it is Dang, DJ or myself who have been critical in some regards and we all have also displayed our excitement to have him as a Dolphin.

    So again, I will wait for these examples of Ryan hate and crap being spewed.
     
  11. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO the criticism of Tannehill far outweighs the praise. You tend to hear far more skepticism than belief. I agree that nobody claims he's perfect or even elite, so I don't see any out of control praise. But there have been threads about replacing Tannehill, him being beat out by Freeman, several doubting that Tannehill is even in the top half of the league's starting QBs. I'm probably among the few that believe he's practically a lock to be among the top 10 QBs this coming season. Anybody who sees more praise than criticism on this site hasn't been paying attention.
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not sure if it's accurate, but my perception of how most on this site judge Tannehill is that he's somewhere between top 10-15 in the league, has demonstrated steady improvement, and can still improve a good deal. Of course there are a few that think he'll never be better than average, and a few who think he'll be elite, but by and large I think 10-15 now with top 10 realistic in the near future (remember, some QB's will retire too..) is what I remember reading.

    Is that accurate? Not sure.. maybe there should be a poll to find out.

    Either way, my view of Tannehill concurs with that 10-15 now with top 10 realistic in the near future (maybe this year!).
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I think that is easily the nominal opinion.
     
  14. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Disagree. Let me ask you this, if I tell you Ryan is a top 10-12 QB in the league but needs to improve on his improv in the pocket...would you consider that praise or criticism? You would call it criticism because you feel its a given if not a slight to call him top 10-12. How is that fair?
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The thing is, Fin-omenal, your tone on Tannehill has changed drastically since last season. You, and others, the last couple seasons, trotted out all these reasons why Tannehill wasn't good enough to be a franchise QB. Now, you want everyone to forget that stuff, since apparently, you like him now. For awhile it seemed that only FinD, Raf, myself, and one or two others, actually liked Tannehill, and didn't go through great lengths to drag him down. You guys used to post these stats, with crazy gymnastics to make him seem like Tim Tebow bad, and when I would argue, you labeled me a Tannehill lover, or a homer.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Weren't you arguing not long ago that Tannehill was no better than 15 or 16 in the league? That's when Raf argues with people.
     
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  17. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    as I will await examples of "these dorks want to string you up if you have even the slightest criticism of Tanny", that is a two way street. I'll also be waiting for example of all this excitement being displayed for having Tannehill alongside all of this critical criticism.
     
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  18. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Was I critical the first half of last season? Absolutely, and with good reason. Any criticism at the time was well deserved. My opinion changed when his performance did. I've called him a top 10-12 QB all offseason. I'm quite far from a Tanny "hater".
     
  19. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    So you don't have any? Got ya.
     
  20. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    No.
     
  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In my 2 keeper leagues, I have stashed Ryan. I've got $800 of my own hard cash on him every year. But I will criticize what I think is fair. Do I play devils advocate sometimes? Sure. But that's what this forum is here for.
     
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  22. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess I have been his biggest critic this offseason..I stand by everything I've said...and ftr, I've said that I'm not sure he has enough to win it all..but if we build a really good team around him then maybe so..

    The one thing I've been clear on is when I say a sense of consciousness and to know when to tuck and run and I will believe he can get it done, so far its been three years and haven't seen a inkling of consciousness about the element.

    now you keep telling me that its gonna come, and maybe so, maybe this is the year, but I just cant go there..none of this means I won't be rooting for him nor do I lack the vision of the things he does do well and how you all are accounting for projection and growth, but I think your still basing your things on his potential..which is cool, I just want him to realize that potential a little faster..I have said that I know for a fact that no other qb in history has ever made this type of transition, so maybe this slow process is a part of that.

    I have stated that I think he will improve this year, numbers and all, but my eval of him will take place in the playoffs..I know he's good enough to get us there.
     
  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Isn't that how any team wins the Super Bowl? By building a really good team around a QB though? Sure, you have the rare "pretty good" team that goes on a roll in the playoffs every so often, but how many of those end up as champions? Last one I can think of was the 2001 Pats (and many of us believe that they were up to no good even back then).

    IMO, there are about 20 teams in the league who would kill to have Tannehill at QB for them.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    hmmm, at some point your qb has to be good enough to win the game on his own.there are too many plays that await to be made to just rely on your skill players..I think it can only get you so far.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ryan did not have a good scrimmage tonite..showed poor touch, placement and anticipation on some throws..
     
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  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You're a dead man Deej!
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hope not, I think most folks would say the same, its not the end of the world by any means, but theres enough plays that we can see that were poor, the stats and rating kinda back it up.

    a perfect example of him not ever running on his own accord is the mccain int last nite, if you watch the play, ryan hesitates because mccain gets caught up for a second in the route, ryan pulls it back reloads then makes the mistake to just flick it up anyway, with no plan in mind, the ball was on our 3 yard line, after he hesitated and deciding to reload, there was absolutely no'one near him and the end zone, I mean it was as clear as it gets to just trot three yards and call it 6, wide open lane... it didn't even register in his brain...not only are you taking 6 off the board, your not getting the field goal either, and you gave the ball away on the 3 yard line..dissapointing that he didn't recognize it even though it was a scrimmage.
     
  29. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    And that is the "feel" i think he will develop this year. Despite the small sample size, from the little bit I have read/seen shows he is alot more comfortable in year 2 of Lazor Ball...

    The pressure of the deep ball is off and it appears he is "letting loose" much more here early. My biggest concern is that the OL gets pummeled early and often and Ryan develops the career altering happy feet in the pocket. If he can avoid that then this team will do great things. And by great things I mean get into the playoffs and win games.
     
  30. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That's a great article, and really, REALLY illustrates what many of us were saying last two seasons.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. That article highlights how accurate Tannehill is. That chart showing all the attempts regardless of result concludes that Tannehill was accurate on 83.2% of his passes. I don't know how that compares league-wide since I haven't the same chart for all QBs, but I can say that watching the full games of QBs like Luck, Peyton and Wilson my perception was that those great QBs threw a higher percentage of inaccurate passes than Tannehill. I do take issue with the statement that his accuracy was "bloated by throwing so many short passes". Reality is that Tannehill did not throw a particularly high percentage of short passes. He's just above the league average for passes from 1-10 yards (49.8% to 50.5%) and had a lower percentage of passes in that range than such notables as Brady, Peyton, Flacco, Brees and Matt Ryan.

    I wonder how things would be viewed differently if some of those spot on passes in the article had been completed. Maybe one or two of those games would have been wins instead of losses and Tannehill is suddenly a QB that lead his team to the playoff. And a few more long completions would dramatically change Tannehill's oft-criticized YPA. IMO it's pretty obvious that if his receivers catch a few of those passes Tannehill's yardage jumps by 300yds or 400yds and suddenly his YPA 7.3 - 7.5. He also has a few more TDs and his QB rating is about 97 arguably making him the most statistically impressive 3rd year QB and nobody is arguing about whether or not he's a top 10 guy. Obviously all QBs suffer some drops, but Tannehill suffered drops in a particular area of the field that skewed that segment of his stats. If Tannehill had done everything exactly the same (in other words he's the exact same QB he was last year), but had his receivers make a few more very easy plays and the perception is completely different.
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's nice that someone who actually has experience with evaluating sees stuff that I see also. I watch other games, and even posted some of the throws I saw guys like Peyton and Luck have completed, that Tannehill wouldn't have a chance to have had completed. People love to exaggerate the amount of throws in the 1-10 yard area that Tannehill throws, and I have pointed out many times, it's lower than the guys you listed. I really think that Tannehill could blow away people's expectations, even if he's the exact same QB as he was last year. I fully expect the receivers to make more plays, and as you pointed out, a couple perfect balls being caught will significantly elevate his stats, and completely change people's perceptions.
     
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  34. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Its actually interesting you bring this up rafael because Fahey has a twitter account that he was using as a medium to evaluate Tannehill as a leadup to this article over the weekend. Anyhow, he touched on this topic and I've copied the relevant tweets below:

    [video=twitter;630459407743250436]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/630459407743250436[/video]

    [video=twitter;630459746194182145]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/630459746194182145[/video]

    [video=twitter;630460348802433024]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/630460348802433024[/video]

    [video=twitter;630460837581426688]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/630460837581426688[/video]

    [video=twitter;630461736034914304]https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/630461736034914304[/video]
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. I had never seen this article or heard of this guy before you posted it.

    In terms of bad pass percentages I did see another site that addressed the issue:

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-bad-pass-percentage/2014/

    They had Tannehill as the 5th best in the league in this category in 2014 with 13.90% bad passes (or obviously 86.10% good passes). That's similar to Fahey's 83.2% number. And matches my stated perception that Peyton, Luck and Wilson threw a higher percentage of bad passes.
     
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  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    There was a contingent of us RT fans on this site last year who argued these same theories, analysis, whatever you wanna call it, so it's nice to see a piece supporting it.

    I've been really high on RT, particularly since Game 5 onward last season...I saw some special there, and it has stuck, and while it's only pre-season, it seems to be blossoming further with some of the play he's exhibiting.

    The potential exists for this to be a VERY good year for RT, the team, and us fans. I'm ready for the ride.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  38. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Meh...he's gone...his play will speak for itself in Minnesota. I didn't watch the HOF game, but I heard at work that he dropped a pass...and didn't feel any surprise.
     
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  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    did you know that ryan said that his deep ball needed to improve and that he needed to work on it this offseason?
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Did you know that football players don't generally throw their teammates under the bus?

    i mean seriously.
     
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