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Miami Dolphins Ryan Tannehill: Judge me on wins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The problem with using 1-10 yards, is, it includes 1-10 yards. QB throws 100 passes 1 yard each. QB2 throws 100 passes, 9.9 yards. Both have the same percentage of passes thrown 1-10 yards. Numbers show he's not the bottom of the league (Alex Smith is), but I think 29th or 28th (around there) in average yards traveled per pass. Ahead of Cutler, Wilson, and a few others I can't remember.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did you know that Philbin said he needed to improve his deep AND intermediate accuracy, which matched what PFF rated ;)
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I thought you believed Philbin is incompetent. Your fluid benchmarks return.
     
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  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He is an 8-8 type of guy. Wrong half the time.
     
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  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting to note in the comments, the author originally discussed Tanny's overthrows, and calls it the weakest part of the game (just not terrible). It was edited out.

    dj, you've been vindicated.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ....unless he agrees with you, then he's always right. Typical.

    Let's forget the fact that you've been given empirical data and video evidence clearly illustrating that Tannehill was not and is not the problem.....all you have now is what Philbin said. I mean we even know that Wallace was a diva with a fragile ego, so its likely that Philbin was trying to keep Wallace from tailspinning, but you're still gonna put all your eggs in a basket that up until this new "he's average" declaration, you said was terrible and not very good.

    Its a good thing backpedalling on a message board is not an actual physical maneuver else you'd likely give yourself whiplash.
     
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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    huh.. Lol, come on Fin, you act like he was perfect. Of course he has weaknesses, that was one of them and I'm pretty sure I know the others..
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I never said he was perfect. The deep ball was not one of his weaknesses.
     
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  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't think anyone thought he was perfect. It seemed to be between "terrible" to "not bad, but not great"
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he told you it was, his coach told you, i agree with both of those opinions..to blame it all on wallace wouldn't be fair..who cares though as long as he improves..

    heres the problem I have with some, some are saying and thinking that if we get the same play from ryan its all good just because of the better skill players..I just don't agree with that narrative, I think his numbers will improve, but we need him to improve so we can win it all.
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would call it a weakness regardless of wallace.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    DJ, the problem with your thought, is that last year, as illustrated in the article, had receivers caught several good balls, Tannehill looks significantly better, and we probably win several more games...yet Tannehill would literally have done nothing differently.
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Doesn't pretty much every professional player, who's not a diva, always talk about improving all parts of their game?
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sure, listen, to me and I've said this before, its not a big deal, its not that he doesn't have the ability, he does, ryan throwing the deep ball is not a concern of mine, never was, I just think up until this point he wasn't seeing the target very well, he was just throwing to a spot, and I don't think thats the way to be effective, I think you have to clearly settle, see your target and aim..also think sometimes he drops his arm slot on the deep ball, and I think that can take away accuracy.

    the weakness i think he has is way more important than this..im pretty confident as the game continues to slow for him, his deep ball will improve, its the other thing that concerns me.
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The kid in the blog did a good job of breaking down those plays, but ask yourself this.

    If some other blogger or you tuber broke down all the inaccurate throws once Wallace had beaten his man, would you coincide Ryan struggled with the deep ball?

    I'll take a shot....HELL NO YOU WOULDNT...but this blog fits your agenda so let's just let it be the final chapter of the saga and I will pretend I didn't see #11 beating DBs every Sunday and the issue can be put to rest.

    Ryan has always thrown a good deep ball, it's just that one of the best deep threats in football the last 5 years was screwing him up. I mean, that does make a lot of sense...
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    In timing based offenses, you do throw to a spot, not a receiver.
     
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  17. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Nope. Not at all. I'll take this bloggers opinion over a plethora of other analysts rather they have more credentials or not. Makes sense.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'd like to see someone do that, who also had access to know where Wallace was supposed to be vs where he actually was. Wallace being behind a DB is all well and good, but what if he's not where he's supposed to be? Also, you act like we've never, ever said that there were some throws by Tannehill that were bad. There were.
     
  19. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    That doesn't work with the kind of deep balls that have sparked this controversy.
     
  20. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    No he certainly missed some wide open opportunities because his throw was off...no arguing that at all, really.

    But his inaccuracy, as the guy refers in the article, wasn't as bad as the stigma. That's the whole point many of us argued, but the narrative stuck, so it was what it was.

    I'm very glad he's hitting them in practice with regularity...that's a step in the right direction. I'm not calling him 13 #2, but it's sure exciting to see. That stuff is already spreading throughout the players as well, and many have commented on it. ANYTHING that has a wide, motivating impact on the team, is a great thing, and I'm personally pretty damned happy to see it FINALLY...with Rocket Hamster gone.
     
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  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's been illustrated over and over again on this site how Wallace and his poor route running affected deep balls. Sure, not every, single, one, but on some of them.
     
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  22. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Just as nobody has ever claimed Mike Wallace was perfect either. And if it's a called deep ball then being behind the DB is EXACTLY where he is supposed to be.

    It matters not, this issue by all accounts should be a dead one. Ryan is balling in camp with all the throws...this could be the makings of a Top 5 QB we are looking at right here, I'd rather he master the back shoulder pass rather than the deep ball at this point because our WRs are perfect for that.
     
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  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't think Tannehill has any accuracy issues. His biggest problem IMO is that he can't generate enough time to hit the deep ball. He needs perfect protection to generate big plays. Until he can better extend plays I'm not sure there will be many big plays. I think we'll likely see more efficiency deep this season, because they won't force it like they did with Wallace, but I don't think you're going to see a big increase in big plays.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Very possible. I think one thing that we WILL see though, are short to mid range passes that become big gains due to Stills, Jennings and Parker being much better at that than the guys who they replaced, and Cameron likely being better than the injured 2014 version of Clay as well (Clay was pretty good at making things happen with the ball in his hand in 2013).
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think we will see an increase in big plays. IMO he was basically average at the deep throw to anybody not named Wallace, but he still didn't put enough arc on the ball. Putting more arc on the ball will make it easier for receivers to adjust and now he has receivers who can and will adjust to the ball in flight. But beyond that, I agree he doesn't have any accuracy issues. He's actually among the more accurate QBs in the league.
     
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  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, I think the YAC will improve over last year. I'm not sure about Cameron and the depth behind him though.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  27. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    You can look at individual plays like this with any QB and his ypa and stats are going to improve. Tannehill is not the only qb whose team lets him down; without context this isn't that convincing.

    The other issue is that his low ypa and poor big-play production in 2014...was exactly in step with his poor ypa and big-play production for the previous four years. None of this was new; he's been poor in these depts since he took over at A+M. I think it's totally understandable to say "I'll believe it's an issue until he ACTUALLY boosts his production in these areas." It's not like people are making excuses for one anomalous year; that's a much different discussion. This is who he's been since he began playing the position.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He played most of last year at above a 7ypa. It's disingenuous at best to act as if his ypa was poor all last season.
     
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  29. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Oye, another sample size discussion. It's not about "most." It's about an average over a substantial, honest sample size. Calculate his ypa over the last 8 games and you'll be disappointed.
     
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  30. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Careful what you wish for, Mr. Tannehill.
     
  31. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  32. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I'm chiming in late. I disagree somewhat with the accuracy thing. He's gotten better, for sure, but he did have a bit of an accuracy issue (which even he has acknowledged) which may have been more of a footwork/release point thing.

    I believe he has worked diligently to correct it. In college, you can be a little less accurate, but NFL accuracy is different. The windows are tighter, and you have to throw from different angles. I contest that he didn't have NFL accuracy when he came in, but has gotten better with each year in the league. You can look at highlights from each year and see how he has gotten better. To be a starting QB in the NFL, no doubt you have to be accurate. But to be upper echelon accurate, I don't think he was. This year, I think we see something different.

    But also, look at the draft picks: Landry, Parker. These are guys with great hands and a nice catch radius. Guys who win contested throws. Why pick these types of guys? Why the issues in the Red Zone last year when they were tops getting there? The throws have to be better, and I think Tannehill was a big part of the Red Zone issue.

    This year, I think he gets better. Much better. I think we are starting to see the a QB who can get over the hump and win games. Win them late. And I have to give it up to this coaching staff for having a vision for him and helping him get there. It's been a process, maybe slower than we'd like, but I think this staff and FO is building a winner. And hopefully, a winner who can sustain a streak for years. Let's keep this guy clean, because we need him.
     
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  33. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Ironically the most important issue Ryan has or has ever had is his play on 3rd downs and the 4th qtr were bottom level performances. Those are two of the most important situations in football and you can't struggle in that area and expect to be a playoff team.

    Hard to pinpoint the reasoning without more in depth analysis that we just aren't privy too. We can speculate but that's just another merry go round argument waiting to happen.

    Ryan is carrying himself more confidently and appears to have taken in a huge step mentally which hopefully leads to better situational performances. We won't know until he has been in that situation a few times in an actual game, I'm confident we won't see bottom level performances when we need him the most but you never really know.
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    not the deep ball..a true deep ball, you dont ever just throw to spot, lol, thats ridiculous...you need to see your target clearly and throw to him a place where it gives him a chance.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree that he has innate accuracy in his dna..
     
  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    CK pointed out in the last half of last season he still had one of the lowest YPA's in the league. And we all know what his first 3 games were. So he feasted on some teams game 4-8. Before and after that, his ypa was poor.

    EDIT: I just calculated. His YPA games 9-16, was ... 7.07. So yeah, above 7 .... but a whisker.
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The very article you cite as evidence this his deep ball is not a weakness, called his deep ball his weakest area.

    http://www.sportsonearth.com/articl...training-camp-reviews-true#comment-2184715364

    Anxiously waiting for you to spin how, the author of the article says the exact opposite of what you just argued they argued.
     
  38. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So did the authors of this article people are praising. But they edited it out.

    Between bad and good.
     
  39. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Here's a site that compares the accuracy of QBs:

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-bad-pass-percentage/2014/

    They have Tannehill as the 5th most accurate in the league last year and 10th most accurate in 2013. I watch a ton of different QBs and I can say that this roughly corresponds with what I have seen.
     
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  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Got better as his passes got shorter ;)
     

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