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Miami Dolphins Ryan Tannehill: Judge me on wins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the over 35/40 yards in the air variety are the only ones that over ever talked about needing to improve, just because thet're rare doesn't mean its not part of his game that needed to improve.

    35/40 yards is not far.
     
  2. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    It doesn't need to improve. He was fine with those passes last year. He just had a crappy wr and ol. You'll see this yr. He has wrs this yr. Even with a poor oline he will hit a lot of big plays just because he finally has wrs that can adjust and catch
     
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  3. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I do believe it needs to improve, but it's such a small subsection of the game that the attention paid to it far outstrips it's importance. We're not even talking about what is generally considered long passes for stat purposes, which are maybe <5% of the game. We're talking about a subset of that category, the smaller subset at that. Basically, we have pages and pages of people b*tching about what amounts to maybe 2% of a QB's game.

    Additionally, it's not all on the QB. Of all the passes a QB throws, deep passes are most dependent on the WR adjustments. Really all the QB has to do is learn to adjust his arc and let the receiver do his thing. That's it. It's a skill that most QBs pick up in time. Some QBs naturally throw a higher arc so they have an advantage coming in, but it's such an easy adjustment that almost all QBs that spend enough time in the league will end up at least average with most of the variation dependent on their WR's skills. Some QBs like Tannehill and Rodgers don't have a naturally high arc so their adjustment takes longer, but it's a simply fix. It's not usually addressed early on b/c it's such a small part of the game, but I've yet to see a QB who spent several years in the league and wasn't at least average at it. I never saw this as an "if" thing, but rather as a "when". IMO all this hand-wringing and doubt and blame being primarily focused on the QB has just been ridiculous.
     
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  4. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    For most QBs, you are talking about less than 10 35+ yd passes a season. The ones with the highest completion % on those (which may be due as much to luck as anything else) complete about 30% of those, while the ones on the lower end of the scale complete 10-15% of those. so we are talking about 1, maybe 2, completions a year. That difference may be luck, it may be a great WR going up and getting the ball, or it may be a WR that adjusts his route dramatically to get to it. As Rafael points out, the completion rate on those passes has more to do with the WR's adjustments than the QB.

    It has become a "thing" so people note every incomplete long pass by Tannehill and lament it without realizing that the vast majority of those passes by every QB fall incomplete.
     
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  5. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But then again checking it down to the RB with a perfect throw 20 times may not equal even 1 great deep throw.

    Downplaying the "2%" as you are implies that all passing plays are generally equal, which we know they aren't.

    It could be that small percentage actually has quite a bit to do with how good your offense is.

    I'm just making a point here, but clearly hitting Mike Wallace in stride 50 yards down the field is a much more lethal play than hitting Damien Williams in stride coming out of the back-field.


    Now, I'm not going to get into whose fault that was but clearly it was something that the Dolphins couldn't accomplish with the kind of regularity we all would've liked to have seen, so it's quite conceivable that a great many fans would consider it one the reasons Miami's offense is yet to really get to a level that scares people.

    If a defense knows that it's going to take 10-12 plays to march down the field, there's a lot less pressure than if you're playing the Steelers and you know that if either Bryant or Brown get behind you, you're screwed.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Obviously a long pass can have a big impact, even win you a few games, but it's still a small part of the season and far less impact than what your QB does the other 98% of the time. There are things I want Tannehill to improve on and better arc on the deep pass is on the list, but it's way down the list and it's arguably the most discussed part of his game. If we never mention it again it will still have been talked about too much relative to it's importance.
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    /end thread
    /end debate
     
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  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The reason it was frustrating Ryan struggled with the deep ball is because we signed a WR who specialized in getting deep. He's gone now...why does it matter anymore?
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Because its important to understand what caused that problem.
     
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  10. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Sadly he didn't specialize in catching which is why he was let go and our QB got an extension
     
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  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The thing I saw was he got in the area to be completed. But Wallace is one of the worst receivers I ever saw adjusting to a ball, getting body position to make the catch. Does he throw the soft high arc floater like Brees....no. He's more like Rodgers or Marino like you indicated. You watch this year though. He will throw the same passes and complete about six over 30 passes this yr just because we got guys who will adjust and position better
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i disagree, I saw tempo and basic fundamentls he needed to improve..whats the big deal of him needing him to improve in some areas...you think it was the receiver, i think the long ones was more on him..he thought that, his coaches thought that, and maybe as the speed continues to slow for him, he will set up and see things more quickly and clearly.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lets forget this stupid argument and talk about the best most important play of the night..the conversion on third and two deep in his territory, with his legs, non scripted improptu biggest impact of the night play...wow, things sure did seem to open up after that eh?, including the big miller run..

    now if he continues doing that stuff at critical times i will have to eat some crow.

    but I cant tell you how happy i was to see it for our team, I know how important it is to his and our teams success.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I like how quick the decision was made.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    hmmm, ill disagree with you there, there was hesittaion and a lil stutter step..Id like it to be more aggressive and confident, the lane was wide open, now i understand that he had some reads, but it was two yards, the odds of him running for 2 yards with an open lane are higher than sitting back and trying to convert thru the air..these plays are backbreakers for a defense, and has much residual affect on future reps.
     
  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    So because Mike was bad with the deep ball and Ryan was really good at it, is why Wallace was shipped Minnesota??? Man that's a solid theory.
     
  17. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It was a big play and it should be easy for him at this point. Those decisions should be close to instinctive/automatic for him now, and if he does that regularly this offense can be a lot more productive. In that 3rd down situation with just a few yards needed, he made the right call to just run. If it had been 3rd and 8, it might have been a good time to buy time with his feet and keep looking downfield for an open receiver. I could easily see plays like that being worth 4-6 pts a game, which would put this offense in the Top 5 even without any other real improvements.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    absolutely brings an entirely new dimension to the offense, critical imo.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept: Tannehill is not as bad at the deep ball as you seem to think, and Wallace is not as good at catching as you seem to think. But, yes, Wallace was shipped because he was a liability, both with his antics and his inability to be a good deep target in this offense.
     
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  20. Undisputed

    Undisputed Banned

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    I just can't understand why so many people can't grasp this? It's pretty straightforward logic.

    Or does hate just blind their eyes?
     
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  21. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Yaaawn. I don't think you are an idiot, but please show me ANY evidence of your matter of fact statement that Wallace was a liability as a "good deep target" and thats why he was traded.

    Please, dont just ignore this request...im looking forward to your reply.
     
  22. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    What site have you been posting on? If someone makes the slightest criticism of Ryan you two flock into the thread blaming everything from coaching, OL, Lazor, the defense, and ofcourse Wallace.

    But yea, you guys are objective. Nobody here who is nuetral is buying you two's phony BS that you give anything but a one sided pro Ryan stance. Being a mega homer is okay, many posters admidt thats just how they are...but when you are "stuck" on a player and are blatantly in defense mode the second anyone says ANYTHING about him then claim to be a reasonable objective poster, you just look ridiculous. SOME folks are just set in their ways and will always look bad, Res is new enough that maybe we can save him.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol. Tell me about your Wallace defense again....I'll wait...
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, are you serious? Or do you just troll, trying to see how much you can get me to post? There have been plenty of posts over the last two years, with pictures, and video, detailing how Wallace is a bad target to throw to. I mean, seriously, I gave one, maybe not in this thread, recounting Tannehill making a great play against the Panthers, and having the bomb fall harmlessly between Wallace's fingers. Or the balls that Wallace had bounce off chest our facemask. Or Wallace not being able to stay inbounds on catches. Or lackluster effort to go after balls (he got better at that). Or not being able to track balls well. Or not being able to do anything other than run full speed or stop.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You again confuse us arguing your ridiculous claims with blind homerism. You constantly overstate our position in an attempt to paint us as ridiculous. I've stated numerous times that Tannehill is not perfect, and that he shared sine blame in the deep ball issues WITH WALLACE. I've also stated that Tannehill has left plays on the field. However, I've also stated that Wallace was a big part of the problem.

    Not sure where I've ever said that Lazor was a problem.

    Yet you continue to try to paint me as if I've claimed that Tannehill was the most perfect QB ever to play the game.

    SMDH
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    By the way, I like this:

    I joined this site when it first opened. LOL
     
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  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Nice deflection.

    I get your position, and the fact I think alot of it is wrong that doesn't change what I originally asked you to do. Which is back up your statement that Wallace being a liability (in your eyes) with the deep ball was part of the reason he was traded. Did you word it wrong or do you have some sort of evidence that Hickey and Co. Believed this and traded him?
     
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  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    So you started posting regularly anout the same time someone said something youndidnt like about RT? Or what.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Nope. That's just when I drew your attention.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Your asking for something that can't be given. Although the fact that Wallace was traded says everything that you're asking.
     
  31. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You made the comment brother, not me. I will just assume you worded it wrong because I've never heard anyone with any real credentials state Mike is a bad deep target (check his stats) and Ryan was a good deep ball thrower.

    Although like I said before, his deep ball woes wont be an issue this year because A.) he is a young qb so you assume he will improve. B.) It's not a point of emphasis because his best WR isn't a known deep ball specialist.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not deflecting. I'm not defending Tannehill as much as I'm telling you, you were, are and have been wrong about Wallace. When people pointed out Wallace's flaws, you, not us, went into ballistic defense mode. Its you, not us that is the homer. That is easily proven by the following:

    Again, you don't criticize Wallace, only Tannehill.

    We only argue with your constant wrong defense of Wallace.

    We argued with your defense of him not fighting for the ball his first year here. You said that's not part of his game. Your defense was wrong. You cry that we're persecuting you.
    We argued with your defense of him not running crisp routes. Your defense was wrong. You cry that we're persecuting you.
    We argued with your defense of him not tracking the ball in the air well. Your defense was wrong. You cry that we're persecuting you.
    We argued with your defense of him having a small catch radius. Your defense was wrong. You cry that we're persecuting you.

    See a trend?

    Oh, and you deflected.
    In fact, I guarantee, you'll answer this with another deflection.

    And I'm done....again.
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not saying anyone has stated that. I'm saying it's a fact based on what I saw from in Miami. I thought you wanted a statement from someone in the organization that he was traded because of that. That is something I can't give you. However, if after watching Wallace for multiple seasons, you came away thinking, "Boy! That Wallace really does a lot for his QB! He's a great receiver!" Then I'd have to wonder what you were watching. Look, Wallace was really fast. He got behind the defense sometimes. Unfortunately, he couldn't seem to react well to balls in the air. Note: that does NOT mean that Tannehill didn't throw some bad balls to him. It means that when Tannehill didn't throw a perfect ball, it probably wouldn't be caught...and even sometimes perfect throws weren't caught.
     
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  34. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Truly didn't read, as entertaining as it likely was.
     
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  35. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Well yeah, you rehashing your opinion is a broken record. All these claims are merely opinions and not many people agree with you, and you just called it a fact. No. It's your opinion.

    If you want to put the bulk of the blame on Mike then by all means continue to do so, just understand that you are in the vast minority for a reason.

    Let's see if you are more of a man then Uncle fin-d...

    What do you say about Ryan's bottom teir "stats" on 3rd down and the 4th quarter? These situations are much more important than any deep ball, and he is bad at it. What is your thoughts on this?
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You can call it "my opinion" if that helps you dismiss it. Doesn't change the truth of it.

    My thought? He needs to be better. That being said, the oline and lack of run game was a big part of the problem there.
     
  37. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thanks. :up:
     
  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Nice attitude!

    [video=twitter;634021295093608448]https://twitter.com/AdamHBeasley/status/634021295093608448[/video]
     
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