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These are the players that need to go i.m.o.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Passrusher, Dec 26, 2007.

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  1. Passrusher

    Passrusher New Member

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    In the draft war room
    QB- Casey Bramlet ...... He's a camp body only. We need to look for more talented depth.
    QB- Trent Green ......... His age and concussion history along with his play declining means he has to go.
    QB- Cleo Lemon ......... He holds onto the ball far too long and doesn't look off receivers. He also makes too many mistakes. A major upgrade is needed for the starting job.
    RB- Patrick Cobbs ....... Has fallen off the radar at the RB position. Gado and Lo Booker both surpassed him on the depth chart. With Ricky possibly returning next season, along with Ronnie Brown and Jesse Chatman, there's no spot for Cobbs.
    WR- Marty Booker ....... His skills are obviously eroding. He's also due a big salary, is slow and drops too many passes. It's time for a major upgrade at one starting WR spot.
    TE- David Martin ......... A big disappointment as McMichael's replacement. He has really underachieved in pass catching and is a liability as a blocker. Again, a major upgrade is needed for the starting job.
    TE- Justin Peelle ......... Like Martin, Peelle is a poor blocker. Peelle also seems to be slow to gain any yards after he catches the ball. We should be able to find someone better.
    G- Chris Liwienski ....... Actually lost his starting job to Lekkerkerker for a couple of games and simply doesn't deserve to be a starter for any team in the league. Liwienski gets knocked backwards far too often and is one of the main reasons d-linemen get quick penetration into our backfield when they blow him up.
    G- Cory Lekkerkerker ... He beat out Liwienski for a couple games but then he loses his starting job to Liwienski. What does that say about him? The only reason he was signed is because he played for San Diego when Cam was there. He was a mediocre talent then. We can easily find better depth.
    T- L.J. Shelton ............ The former 1st round pick has been a career underachiever. The only reason he should remain is if we can't find someone clearly better. Again, he's an average talent at best so guys like him are not hard to replace.
    T- Anthony Alabi ........ He has been a big disappointment. He has had 3 seasons to show something and he could not crack the starting lineup with a group filled with average talent. He looked simply abysmal in the pre-season. He's had his chance, so it's time to move on.
    NT- Keith Traylor ....... He should retire. His knees and ankles have eroded and he turns 39years old in 2008.
    LB- Zach Thomas ...... I know he's the heart and soul of the Dolphins but he turns 35 years old when the 08' season rolls around and he's had some serious injury issues. Bill Parcells also likes much bigger linebackers. Also, Zach's wife wants him to retire.
    LB- Donnie Spragan .... Yet another mediocre talent who never makes big plays.
    CB- Travis Daniels ...... Liability against quicker receivers. Gives up too much ground.
    S- Lance Schulters ..... Not fast enough. Pretty much a stop-gap player that was signed off the street.
    S- Cameron Worrell .... Not a great athlete and was badly beaten when playing as a starting safety. He's a special teamer and nothing more.

    Again, this is my own observations and opinon on who should be cut, traded or a guy who needs to retire.
     
  2. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    i agree with them all but i'd like to throw in channing crowder as on the hot seat
     
  3. Milkmoney21

    Milkmoney21 New Member

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    Ok on that list this is who were keeping

    1.Trent Green(veteran back up)
    2.Justin Pelle
    3.L.J. Shelton(for now)
    4.Zach Thomas(no trade value best mlb why get rid of him?)
    5.Donnie Spragan(good back up did you forget we need depth?)
    6.Travis Daniels(slow but good enough for #3)
     
  4. fins4o8

    fins4o8 Mac FTW!

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    i would keep Zach. Even though, he is getting old and losing a step, he still makes plays. he is better than all of our LB corp combined besides JoeyP of course.
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    There's absolutely no reason to get rid of Zach Thomas. Yeah, he's 35, big deal. He's still playing at a solid level, and he's better at MLB than everyone else on the roster.

    Keep him to competently fill arguably the most important position in the 3-4 defense, and phase him out beginning in 2009 when we can draft his successor.
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Peele is miscast as a blocking Te, he is a much better reveiver then Te.

    Spragen works cheap, can play inside or outside, if we go 3-4, we need Lb's.

    LJ Shelton, can play Guard or Tackle.

    Cleo Lemon, 7 starts in the NFL, has shown improvement over the season, QB's are hard to find, Qb's who have started and shown mobility and have decent arms on bad teams are even harder to find, we may see Cleo for 3 more years...

    Bubble players:

    Zach Thomas, on the bubble, due 7 or 8 million next year.

    T. Daniels, bubble guy, never makes plays, liability almost where ever he lines up.

    Marty Booker, not terrible, not great, due 4 million for doing a job even a Camarillo can do.

    Turk food:

    Anthony Alabi, had better take lessons from Joe Toledo on how to stay on a NFL roster despite showing absolutely no ability whatsoever...

    Lk3, speed bump of a olineman..

    David Martin, cannot catch, cannot block consistently, works cheap, Roster filler material mostly.

    Who knows?

    Cobbs, Special teamer

    Ricky Williams, may stick around, works cheap.

    Cam Worrel, torn Acl, may or may not comeback here

    Randal Hill See Worrel

    Yeremiah Bell, M*A*S*H player (Miami Avoids Staying Healthy) torn achilles may end his career.

    Keith Traylor: Downside, 39, bum knees and ankles, plus side new HC could rejuvenate, a pure NT possibly one of the few left in the NFL today, could be effective in spot duty.

    We are 1-14, most of these guys have disappointed or not stayed healthy, we will just have to wait and see who stays and who leaves...
     
  7. Swampfox

    Swampfox Season Ticket Holder

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    We dont have enough draft picks and cap space to replace all those guys.
     
  8. calfinfan

    calfinfan New Member

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    Trent Green should retire, however, if he doesn't he could start. Lemon will be the starter of Green retires, if he doesn't Lemon goes else where.

    Thomas and Sprague might stay at LB. We need to draft an ILB to replace Zach down the road. Sprague would provide quality depth.
     
  9. CTFinFan

    CTFinFan New Member

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    Lemon shouldn't start. Ever. I don't want to condemn Beck but at the same time it's hard to feel good about him. Daniels is a joke.
     
  10. Hugo Guzman

    Hugo Guzman New Member

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    A couple of notes on the original post:
    -While L.J. Shelton has been average, it is not easy to replace average talent on the offensive line. Therefore, if the cap number is right, he should be retained and allowed to compete for a starting spot.

    -While Justin Peelle is a bit slow, he actually has shown an ability to break tackles and gain yardage after the catch. Also, he is a serviceable blocker. Not sure how you missed that. In any case, he's a capable backup.

    -Travis Daniels is actually a fairly solid nickel or dime back. He's not a big cap number so he should definitely be retained.
     
  11. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    maybe move shelton to guard after we acquire a T?
     
  12. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    With all due respect..I have watched every game this year and re-watched them all in slow motion on my TiVo..Travis Daniels has been God awful...horrible. When the best think you can say about someone is his cap number..it says it all. What is with that ridiculous arm waving after he thinks he made a play..then when he gets burned..or plays off his man about 10 yards..he just slinks away.
    The best words of wisdom I ever heard from a football coach or player is..all the talk and histrionics on game day can never ever fool the game film on Mondays.
     
  13. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    its a shame, daniels showed promise as a rook. thought we had a strong #3 at worst
     
  14. Hugo Guzman

    Hugo Guzman New Member

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    I love it when people talk about watching every game and Tivoing them, as if that lends credence to their analysis or their ability to evaluate football in general!

    Most everyone on here watches games and many Tivo them and watch them again. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you on that.

    All I can say is that it sounds like you allow your emotions to color your analysis.

    You do realize that the coaching staff determines how far a cornerback lines up off his receiver, right? This isn't sandlot football.

    Also, if you watched ever game and watched it in slow motion, how did you miss the various pass breakups and open-field tackles that he's made. Moreover, have you watched the other 31 teams in the league and evaluated their third and fourth cornerbacks, and then compared them to Daniels?

    I'm going to assume that the answer is no, because had you taken the time to do that, you would come to the conclusion that Daniels, while not starting material, is a pretty solid second-tier corner.
     
  15. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    You are right...I am not going to get into it with you about it..nor did I ever say I was an expert on breaking down game film. You are entitled to your opinion and me to mine.. I thought Daniels played well his first year here and has since steadily declined. I am not alone in my opinion of this as there are many here on this board that do agree.
    I do know that coaches dictete coverages..I also do know his ball skills are poor...as is his speed and react skills. His tackling leaves alot to be desired and this is what I base my evaluation on. I might be wrong...who knows. We will find out how Bill feels and whatever coaching staff and GM is in place. I for one do not think he would be hard to replace...but again...just mu opinion
     
  16. Drfletcherdc

    Drfletcherdc New Member

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    Shelton played solid last year as a right guard. I think he is out of place at the Tackle spot.
     
  17. Passrusher

    Passrusher New Member

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    In the draft war room
    Peelle is a terrible blocker. Also, over the last half of the season, Peelle hasn't looked good at all after making a catch. He looked slow and tentative for some reason. Travis Daniels is like Reggie Howard. He's the weak link of all the CBs we have. He's too slow and is pretty easy pickings for a QB to throw against.
     
  18. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Banned

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    wait one second. Daniels is NOT as bad as Reggie Howard. He's been pretty bad, but he's no where near Howard level bad; a guy who couldn't cover a 40 plus year old Jerry Rice in Seattle

    I don't think your list is too far off, but I think we keep Worrell (He is a good ST guy and we need ST help)

    I also think if ZAch leaves it's because he's retiring, and I think we keep Alabi and Leckkerker just for depth until we can get better players
     
  19. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We need to keep the best handful from that list for depth purposes (Lemon, Peele or Martin, Liwienski, Spragan. Keep Thomas, Shelton or not depending on cap implications, and Worrell if he recovers from his injury). If there are better options for these guys by next seasons training camp then say so-long then.
     
  20. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    pleaseeeee dont mention that name, i cant stand that guy
     
  21. zachblitz54

    zachblitz54 Juck The Fets

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    Agree with all except Zach. He will have fresh legs next season, he instantly upgrades the run D, and IMO has one or two more productive seasons left in him. Keeping him allows us to focus on the many other holes. Also, given the TE situation, I would keep Peele as a back up.
     
  22. FINatic 13

    FINatic 13 New Member

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    17 guys? thinking we'll get rid of 17 guys!? you DO need depth, ya know that right?
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You can't just cut guys because they are not playmakers. Especially on a team that is rebuilding. Show me a team were every player is a playmaker, and don't say the Pats, because that aint true. They have more than most, but that is what happens when you draft well over time, then you can start filling the small spots with playmakers, like the 3rd WR spot.


    QB- Casey Bramlet ...... Who cares?
    QB- Trent Green ......... If Cam stays, will probably be on staff, if not, he's a proven veteran, why just chuck him?
    QB- Cleo Lemon ......... So, there'll be just Beck? Who else are we going to able to bring in?
    RB- Patrick Cobbs ....... Sure, he can go.
    WR- Marty Booker ....... He's never been happy here, he can go, but I'd rather keep him over Hagan.
    TE- David Martin ......... We agree on this one completely.
    TE- Justin Peelle ......... We disagree on this one completely. He's an excellent 2nd TE.
    G- Chris Liwienski ....... Keep unless there is a better alternative. Bodies on the line are always needed. Plus, there is something to be said about having a player you know the weaknesses and strengths of.
    G- Cory Lekkerkerker ... See Liwenski
    T- L.J. Shelton ............ Keep him. He's not spectacular, but he's versatile and makes good depth. You never chuck line man unless they are a consistent liability.
    T- Anthony Alabi ........ I agree
    NT- Keith Traylor ....... He should and probably will.
    LB- Zach Thomas ...... Makes no sense to get rid of him. If he had trade value, but he doesn't. He's still the best we've got and still one of the best out there.
    LB- Donnie Spragan .... Again, big plays aren't relevant to your back-up LB
    CB- Travis Daniels ...... Depends on who we bring in.
    S- Lance Schulters ..... See Daniels.
    S- Cameron Worrell .... Keep him. The thing is we will not be able to replace every starting and back up position in the secondary. Just not possible. I would keep Worrel, because at the very least he has heart and he likes to hit. His play did improve as time went on.

    I would add:

    DE/OLB-Jason Taylor....He has significant trade value, even if its only a 3rd.

    S-Yeremiah Bell....He should go. He's a good player, but often injured, and because of that he takes up room. Often injured players who are good create a problem for a team, because they have this starting-limbo status that keeps the team from finding a star replacement. With Ronnie its different because serviceable RBs are a dime a dozen.

    WR-Derek Hagan....Will never be better than he is. Which is at best inconsistent. Maybe one more year.
     
  24. Miamifire

    Miamifire New Member

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    I think Zach should stay and believe it or not, he was our leading tackler several weeks after sitting out. That says something for both the talent of Zach and the rest of our linebackers. If he is healthy, I don't think it will be an issue with Parcells. Part of me thinks we should reward Zach with a trade to a contender (Cowboys?) and part of me says I want him to retire as a Fin. If we could get a 3rd rounder and he wanted to play for a Superbowl contender I would try to do that out of respect for Zach.
     
  25. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    Y would u throw Channing Crowder in there He is a great OLB but we had him playing the MLB witch he isnt used to
     
  26. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    He has been healthy ever year but this year
     
  27. Hugo Guzman

    Hugo Guzman New Member

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    I can only assume that you either didn't watch all of the games (definitely not all the catches he made) or that you have selective memory.

    Peelle has made his fair share of tough yards after the catch to secure first downs.
     
  28. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    not really man. hes had some really bad injuries in his career.
     
  29. Passrusher

    Passrusher New Member

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    I did watch ALL of Miami's games. And Peelle has looked a lot worse in the second half of the season then the first half. He is a weak blocker and he has had trouble breaking tackles in the second half of the season. He looks slower now then he ever has.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No he hasn't, last year was the first time. I think, that he made it through without injuries.
     
  31. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    wasnt bell injured when we got him in the 7th round? i dearly hope that he can overcome this achilles injury.
     
  32. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    his rookie year he missed 2 year then the next year he played all 16 game and last year he played all 16 game and i dont even know if his rookie year he was hurt he might have just not played until week 3
     
  33. Motion

    Motion New Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if we get rid of more than that. I'd expect a rather large turnover. Possibly 20-30.
     
  34. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Pretty interesting concept that we will get rid of 17 players, or 20 or 30 players. Since there are only 7 rounds in the draft and we gained a second rounder and lost a 5th rounder in the Green trade we only have seven picks to fill 17 or twenty or thirty holes. We have some cap room but surely not enough to fill 10 or twenty slots with quality free agent replacements. Where will all of these replacements come from as we purge all of these "worthless" players?
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i agree with the original poster and a few more to boot
     

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