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Patriots SPYGATE was much worse than let on...OTL report

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phins_Fan_87, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Right...hence the period of spygate lining up DIRECTLY with the first 3 super bowls...back when the whole team carried Brady, yet his legend was forged because HEY...he's the QB!! Then bring on 2007, with the extra helmet mic, and it is absolutely NO surprise they lit it up like they did...with Moss there for good measure.

    Their entire "dynasty" is a shiny old pile of doberman sh*t.
     
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You still don't get it. The argument is about public perception. You've seen enough cases where the press takes a photo of an innocuous situation and creates a public perception issue for a politician, celebrity, etc.. haven't you? If yes, there should be nothing to argue about here.

    Besides.. it could be innocuous or not. We don't know that either.
     
  3. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    What I am impressed with is the sheer amount of planning that went into this, over the course of years. Filming hand signals, hiring a man with a photographic memory to remember all of the hand signals, changing your offense to a hurry up style, in order to force defense to utilize said hand signals, that you have committed to memory and can then relay to the sidelines, and thus, to your QB so that the proper plays can be called.

    And then on top of that, making sure you vote AGAINST rule changes that allow for radios to be installed into the defense's helmets because it would, essentially, get rid of hand signals to be used on the sidelines and thus, negate your advantage.

    And then voting for the very same rule to go into effect after you have been caught videotaping, and thus, that advantage was taken from you regardless, and then cutting the feed to the opposing team's players when they came to Gillette Stadium.

    The whole thing is just a crazy game of cheater's cat and mouse. A game that New England had had ingrained into their team for an extremely long time. I see no reason to think that they aren't doing other things, currently, to regain their advantages that were lost through Spygate and Deflategate.
     
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  4. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I knew the second this story broke, this argument would be made...crazy it took 7 pages.

    Bullschit! You don't think it is immeasurably MORE easy to know what play to run, because you KNOW what they're running? Part of the QB's job is deciphering the defense and checking down and picking the right guy...some would say that's the most cerebral part of the hardest position in the world of professional sports. You take that away and you can't quantify that difference? When you're in his unauthorized helmet speaker feeding him info RIGHT up until the snap?

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    i have no doubt they are still doing stuff to cheat.
     
  6. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So what should Berman have done?

    Run in the opposite direction when he saw Kraft coming?

    It's silly.

    Of all the things to get upset about in this whole scenario that is the last one.
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have no idea whether this part of the allegations are true.

    And somebody yelling out or signalling that it's Cover Two doesn't automatically mean you complete the play.

    Brady might have read that it was cover 2 anyway. The defense might change up prior to the snap, etc.

    And it's not just Brady. He might know, but the receivers need to read it too. No guarantee they get it right or that Brady signals it to them in time.

    Was it a help? If true, probably, but it's impossible to quantify.
     
  8. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    I have no cares, I don't give a **** and it doesn't matter to me.
    Waiting for the season to start and will concentrate only on the Dolphins.
     
  9. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    It isn't what the rich and powerful do it's what people do .

    However you would expect ( I do ) that both parties would understand that it would not be perceived in the best light to schmooze in light of the situation and circumstances .

    Discretion should not be eliminated due to social status , how one behaves reveals character regardless of one's material assets imo .
     
  10. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    He didn't do anything wrong given the relative calm after his ruling. The news story that's the topic of this thread came out only today. The question is whether the story will become so large that Berman might end up regretting meeting Kraft like that because the press might make an issue out of it. Who knows.. but no, Berman didn't do anything wrong given that the story was not snowballing into something bigger than his ruling.
     
  11. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    It isn't a major discretion however both parties should have not engaged in chit chat like that and if they turned and were side by side both should have excused themselves , imo .

    Common sense , too bad it's pretty uncommon these days.
     
  12. MutinyOnTheBelafonté

    MutinyOnTheBelafonté B Squad Leader

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    This story could be the downfall of Goodell. Its unfortunate nothing will happen to the actual root cause of this mess: The Patriots.
     
  13. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει


    I can't see how it was NOT a help. If Brady is told that the safeties are blitzing on the next play, and all he has to to is relay to the wide receivers to run to that area of the field and wait for the pass...then that really takes the shine off of Brady being this elite QB who can read defenses pre-snap/during the play and execute accordingly, doesn't it? Hell, I would argue that Chad Henne, Jay Fiedler and even Cleo Lemon could execute that fairly easy game of pass and catch.

    Yes Brady still has to throw the ball to the spot, and yes, the receiver still has to catch it. But knowing that a 225 wrecking ball who is paid money to break that pass up, won't be there, makes it a hell of a lot easier.

    Which is why I can't buy the argument that Brady, Belichick and The Patriots would be the dynasty they are today, without cheating. It is impossible to know for sure, because they muddied the waters so much with their tactics. But I think you have to take that praise away from them for that very reason. The integrity of the game is very much in question. And when it gets to that level, you drop the ban hammer, you punish the sinners and make it abundantly clear to the paying audience (i.e. US), that this will not be tolerated.

    You lose some short term credibility, but long term, you may save the sport.

    Honestly, if Roger had dropped the hammer on Spygate the way he should have, this story isn't happening today, on any level. And now? it is infinitely worse to the point where there are serious questions about whether certain people should even be employed anymore. The whole thing is a PR nightmare and could potentially cost the league millions, if not hundreds of millions, over time.

    Plus...screw The Patriots...
     
  14. MutinyOnTheBelafonté

    MutinyOnTheBelafonté B Squad Leader

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    For those who think that the Pats didn't really get any sort of advantage with spygate, answer this for me:

    Why would they go out of their way to do these things if it wouldn't have been an advantage?
     
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  15. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    for two teams over a decade.
     
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  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kraft is not a party. In fact, he is technically part of the NFL. So it was his association vs his player that was involved. The NFL is a trade association made up and funded by 32 member teams. One of those is Kraft.

    So technically, he lost.

    Seriously man, this is ridiculous.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well said.. nothing new, but well said.

    There is a potential silver lining to this though. No way would Roger Goodell "dropping the hammer" after Spygate have included stripping NE of their SB wins. Now though everything could be on the table if the story becomes so huge that there is real fear of lost future revenue if credibility isn't restored.
     
  18. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Pats are that valedictorian who edged you for the class high gpa, who we later found out was paying a team in Calcutta to do his work for him.
     
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  19. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Why would anyone think they AREN'T still doing this crap? They are CHEATING because that's just what they do. That's what that Ernie Adams guy is on the payroll for.
     
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  20. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    [​IMG]
     
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  21. shadokp

    shadokp Active Member

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    Can you imagine how mad we would be if the Dolphins were a contender during the past couple of decades? Imagine getting to the play-offs and being bumped out by a cheating team like the Patriots. My anger toward them only goes up - especially with a new slew of fans on my Facebook in complete denial. They don't believe any of it and just want the season to start - mindless sheep.

    But I would be even more livid if the Dolphins were edged out by the Pats because of their cheating ways. The Dolphins have not been a factor most of the time the Pats have been relevant which perhaps is a good thing to a degree - not many close calls to get angry, just lingering depression and sorrow with no one to blame but coaches and ownership.

    Still, a couple of seasons ago the Pats started off flat and yet won most of their games. After reading more of these reports, I wonder how many games were decided because of that edge? Three to four a season? How did the Giants manage to beat them twice in the Superbowl? Invisible ink on their playbooks?

    I love the story in Sports Illustrated that a particular visiting team was given a communication head set by the Pats and it looked like it was run over by a lawn mower with wires sticking out and everything. I can see Belichick throwing the visiting head sets on the ground to have his defense stamp all over them.
     
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  22. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    LOL Nice try.
     
  23. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed, and Flutie said they would tell Tommy Boy the defense pre-snap, what receiver to throw to, etc. How freaking hard is that to do?
    Well said.
     
  24. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So the NFL destroys video evidence and Brady destroys his phone evidence. It's like the Sith Lord teaching the apprentice.
     
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  25. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Wannstache and Saban.
     
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  26. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not only was Wanny's schemes vanilla, his signals were as well. He must have been a Pats running joke.
     
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  27. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    The funniest part of this story isn't even Wannstache and Saban being revealed as dumb NFL coaches. It's Arlen "Warren Commission" Specter thinking Roger Goodell conducted a bad investigation.
     
  28. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    PRetty sure it was the SI story that was linked in this thread earlier where it said Saban told everyone they had to change them to play the Pats because he knew what Bellichick was going to do...
     
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  29. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Seriously is right :no:

    He's inextricably linked , again we're not talking legalities , we're talking about perception and what SHOULD be done .
     
  30. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Go Pats.... Go to hell, that is.
     
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  31. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Their Championships get more tainted each year.
     
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  32. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Well if you do rough back of the envelope calculation on a side issue with deflategate, the Patriots unexplainable ability to not fumble the ball, that was worth about 1 win a year on average because of the reduction in turnovers compared to their pre 2007 rate of fumbling.
    On that one I am pretty sure Belichek didnt authorise the cheating, but a small advantage that accrues every snap in every game can easily be the difference between being a team that averages 8-8 for 10 years and a team that averages 10-6 for 10 years.
     
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  33. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Here it is, that Patriot Way that Teddy Bruschi was always talking about.

    What a F$%#in joke.
     
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  34. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Remember when Roger got the office There were a number of players that were in the news seemingly every week acting like complete fools, Pacman Jones springs to the forefront. He was brought in, in large part to be a disciplinarian and clean the mess up from Tagliabue. It was starting to look like the NBA in the late 90's with thugs running rampant. Into that mess Gooddell stepped in and cleaned things up in a hurry. He did a good job and all fans were relieved to a degree.

    It is clear now that he and the NFL overreached big time with regards to league discipline in the new CBA and are paying the price now. It will be interesting to see what happens to Roger in the coming weeks. How many owners will support him now after all this is out is going to be very interesting.

    As far as the story, it its really just confirmation of what everyone fan has thought for years. The Spygate mess was much more widespread than the NFL let on and Roger helped to cover it up for his buddy Kraft. I am not really surprised to see anything I read in that report. I am just hopeful that the ref's will actually call an honest game when the Pats are on the field now.
     
  35. shadokp

    shadokp Active Member

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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If they never cheated...multiple times and in multiple ways, they'd deserve to be that cocky. But since they did cheat, it makes that cockiness come across like a 1960's Bond villain.
     
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  37. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Despite all of the obvious mistakes he's made the NFL is making record amounts of money. I can see him stepping down but the owners have all kept quiet about this stuff for about a decade now because the money has been that good. This whole thing is about how greed makes people act, Goodell has always been doing what the owners want him to. He was light on the Patriots with Spygate because it was what the owners thought was best for the league, he was over the top with Deflate Gate because thats what the owners thought was best for the league. He might walk away but when he does he will be hundreds of millions richer and so will every owner.
     
  38. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Perspective, from a Bills fan:

     
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  39. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    They're on the money


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Doesn't stop there either.....

    Factor up all of what the Bills fan said. Now add on the fact that Brady was a 6th round nobody. Then add on that Belichick was a failure as a head coach in Cleveland, worse record than Philbin.

    Then you find out that they've taken every step they can to cheat.....

    How can anyone outside of Pats fans defend these clowns? How can anyone still talk about them in terms of HoF and greatness levels?

    The last time there was a person/entity that dominated their given sport in spite of set backs and coming out of nowhere was Lance Armstrong.....who also cheated.
     

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