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The Official Tannehill Sucks/Doesn't Suck Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    This can never, ever be used as a standard, IMO.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill was horribly inaccurate the first 3 games and Wallace bailed him out a lot.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/catch-radius-nfc-north-stars

    I think it was pretty much consensus around here that he played badly in the first few weeks. Just watch the games.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wallace's circus catches were not always because of bad throws. For instance, the one hander against Buffall was because a Wallace turned the wrong way, and had to basically go 360 degrees to get a hand on the ball. Had he turned the other way, he wouldn't have to go up with one hand. Not to mention, that wasn't even a bad throw. Tannehill put it to the outside of Wallace, and the defender was inside Wallace. By the way, I don't recall the one hander againot the Pats, but that was the game where Wallace stepped out in the end zone, negating a good throw for a td.

    Further, with the evidence that the receivers were playing extremely poorly in the first three games, why do you put the blame on Tannehill for "bad" passes. Could it not just as likely been receivers in wrong places? Not to say Tannehill never had a bad ball, but it seems a bit prejudicial to automatically lay the all the blame on Tannehill.
     
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  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For those who claim Wallace won't catch the ball unless it's in his bread basket, the first WR they studied, out of 35 seasons, to have a diving catch rate that high. Was he out of position that much? Or was Ryan that far off?

    Go read every Lazor interview last year and see how he praised Wallace through the year. Then see what he says about Tannehill. He was surprisingly critical. And Lazor is as blunt as you get. I've posted it a few months ago so I won't do the leg work.

     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I made a thread meant for arguments of both sides of the aisle while you made a thread for one side and one side only. All I wanted was a place for all arguments about a specific topic to go and all you wanted was for Ireland to be fired.

    These are not the same things at all and its effing ridiculous for you to say they are.
     
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, like I said, same argument trotted out. We've discussed this a ton. Not sure why you find it so hard to believe that Lazor didn't want to publicly criticize his diva WR. Especially considering what happened in the last game.
     
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  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What about Lazor makes you believe he gives a flying fug about a player's feelings. Lazor is the last person on this staff that would do something like that. He's as blunt as they come. Straight shooter. You're really reaching on that one.
     
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  8. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Oh look .... it's still raining excuses.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    reasons =/= excuses
     
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  10. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Built-in "reasons" for every criticism of the man. Every single one.

    The Teflon QB who's never led a team to a playoff victory nor has he finished a season strong. The fact that this conversation is even taking place is a testament to the fact that there's still plenty of improvement yet to be had.
     
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  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No.

    The problem is you guys are saying the same thing over and over and over and its not true, so when its pointed out its not true, you "think" its excuses for everything.

    Fact: Wallace ran poor routes.
    Fact: Wallace had trouble tracking the ball in the air.
    Fact: Our oline sucked for stretches last year and was abysmal the entire year prior.
    Fact: Winning/losing is not the sole responsibility of the QB. (See any number of QBs from Fiedler to Dilfer)

    Every accusation you've made about us defending Tannehill, can actually be applied to you guys defending Wallace. Not one of you, has ever admitted Wallace's issues.

    Tannehill's actual issues are never really talked about. The only thing talked about is "blah,blah, blah deep ball, blah" and he hasn't "gotten" us to the playoffs.
     
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  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Wallace was a major issue in 2013 as he adjusted to being used as a decoy - when he wasn't being forced to play the short/intermediate field. 2014 is nothing to complain about. The guy had double digit TD's despite limitations of the offense and QB.

    Doesn't change anything about Tannehill baring responsibility for some of the criticisms. He's a tough SOB who works hard and can throw lasers to the intermediate area and sidelines, but again still lots of room for improvement.
     
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    My ignore list claims another. Instead of actually discussing what I wrote, I get a silly picture, and a condescending, trolling picture post. And therein lies the problem. A recent poster, claiming to be a fan of Tannehill, expecting to be thought of as impartial and fair in judging Tannehill, but refuses to look at facts that perhaps don't portray Tannehill in the worst light possible.

    Have fun arguing with him.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No one but no one has argued there isn't room for improvement.

    And regardless of what you think, I created a thread PRAISING Wallace for his work in 2014 because he changed his spots some by actually fighting for the ball which he did not do in 2013. He had a good season last year, but that doesn't change the issues he has that I listed. When you have a QB throwing an average deep ball in a timing based offense to a WR running poor routes and the oline is allowing jailbreaks, then the deep ball will suffer. That is just simple common sense. Could Tannehill work to be better than average? Yes. Is his averageness a bigger factor in not completing deep balls than a below average line or a WR who is running below average routes? No. Get an average route running deep threat and an average pass blocking oline....THEN we can talk about Tannehill getting better than average at his part.
     
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  15. Undisputed

    Undisputed Banned

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    It's so funny. We have a top 10 QB on the way up. Much younger than Brady, Manning, Ryan etc. and these guys STILL want to complain and find faults. I instead will be grateful that we aren't starting McCown or Fitzpatrick this weekend. LOL.

    Some people would complain about winning the lotto because of the taxes.

    To each his own, live and let live!

    Go Dolphins!!!
     
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  16. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Key difference is at least this thread is presented in a neutral fashion.
     
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  17. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Seems to me it's just some people are holding off on calling him a top 10 QB until he further proves he's actually a top 10 QB.

    I don't see much complaining. And as far as finding faults goes. Well, it is a Dolphins forum to discuss exactly those sorts of things so......unless he's Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or in that class I don't see anything wrong with discussing them.
     
  18. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Always loved the stereotypical "I'm putting you on ignore" post.
     
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  19. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quoting Keithjackson here, hope he doesn't mind:

    "Ryan Tannehill had a marvelous preseason. He looks more decisive, with better football, and his arm more powerful than ever. In three preseason games he completed five in a row (Bears), 7 in a row (Panthers), and 10 in a row (Falcons). Tannehill has become very good at taking care of the ball, with zero INTs in preseason, and only 12 in 2014. The Dolphins also had the fewest 3-and-outs in football last, and were excellent on first down and against the blitz. The key this year is improving redzone production and big plays, and the front office made the moves to get Tannehill every opportunity to do so."

    So Tanny is putting numbers like this up and all I hear is sports talk saying, "Meh." Meanwhile, Bradford, who can't stay on the field, puts up similar numbers and it's freaking SUPER BOWL!!! for the freaking Eagles. Man this gets me riled up.

    I am so d$S% touchy about my Dolphins.
     
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  20. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    >be a QB known for having some WR quickness in your legs and good throws on the run.
    >be told by your coaches you need to develop into a more polished pocket passer and need to stand tall in the pocket more, be more decisive and not run as much. Also watching your pre-called rollouts drop by around ~3000%
    >get criticized by fans and media for not running as much as you probably should.

    >have the worst offensive line in the nfl (almost in history) by miles for 2+ years
    >be sacked more than any other qb over the last several years, (pretty much your entire career thus far)
    >be the blame for some/half/all of the sacks you take because of your lack of pocket “awareness” ( I.e. being aware of pressure in your face 1-2 seconds after a snap while your O-lineman takes a dirt nap.)

    >be given some of the most mediocre and underwhelming WRs to play with for part of your still-young career WHILE behind said o-line.
    >be criticized over your ‘deep ball’ accuracy when a chunk of incompletions are catchable throws that hit hands/fingers/chest …. and the rest of them being due to BLATANT lack of effort and the middle-school level route running and ball tracking skills which for some reason get overlooked by many because ……. QB

    >be criticized while fans whine at you to 'step it up' and ‘take your team’ to the playoffs as if you’re the only one on the team responsible for doing it. 4k yards? 2:1 ratio? Franchise records? don't matter. You’re not good until YOU do it.
    >sit on the bench and watch helplessly as the defense folds & bad coaching decisions alone lose a quarter of your games in a season. 36 points @ Denver in a primetime night game? Not enough. You should have done more for your team, Tannehill.

    Excuses, Tannehill. Excussseeesssssssss
     
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  21. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Seriously, the defense gave up game-winning drives to Detroit, Green Bay, and laid an egg during the Broncos game. Sure, you can say that maybe Tannehill should have won some other games that we lost, but those games are in the bag if the defense plays some complementary football. You can criticize Tannehill all you want but the blown playoff hopes were on that side of the ball, not him. Using that as a slight against Tannehill seems like a lazy copout and makes it seem like the person using it doesn't watch the games or can't grasp things on a bigger scale. A 3-game swing makes us 11-5, Detroit and Green Bay would have been 10-6 and we would have been close, if not, in the postseason.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would it be fair to say Green Bay's defense laid a bigger egg, giving up that many points to a Tannehill led offense, vs an Aaron Rodgers led offense with Nelson, Lacy and Cobb on it. Giving up 24 to Miami is worse than 27 to Green Bay. They score 30 points a game.

    Sacked on 3rd down, gifted a Time Out by Philbin and Rodgers delivers. He's got that moxie. Tannehill hasn't shown that moxie yet. Defense lays down, and the QB steps up and carries the team. That's what separates the top from the rest. That's what I need to see before I say he's arrived. When presented with the opportunity to close out the season and make the playoffs, he hasn't taken control. The last two games of 2013, and in 2014 the games against the Jets, Ravens and Patriots. Defense laid an egg against NE, but played the jets well (they won), kept the Ravens close. The offense scored 3 points in the final 3 quarters against the Ravens. 3 points. In a do or die situation.

    Tannehill hasn't shown he is is good enough to overcome a bad performance by his team yet. Back in 2009 when we played the colts, we held the ball for 45 minutes. Peyton got 15. They only ran 13 plays the entire 2nd half.

    Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning are the best of the best, ever, so yes that's a high standard. But the closer Tanehill gets to that, then I'm ready to crown him. For now, as you illustrate, he can't overcome a bad showing by his defense, yet. That's why you're blaming them.

    He's good enough now to win. Not saying he's not. He's good enough to win the Super Bowl (see Eli, see Flacco). But you do need more complimentary pieces around him for that. Can he overcome a bad run game? A bad defense? Because that's going to happen over the next 10-15 years. We're going to have bad defenses. We're going to have bad run games. I'm hoping he becomes the guy who we say, we have a chance no matter what.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, blame the defense. How many 30 point games did they give up last year? I acknowledge that Tannehill and the offense could have been better...but the defense definitely lost most of those games.

    But that is much different than the posters who hold Tannehill alone responsible, by looking solely at win/loss record.
     
  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    FinHeaven just called, they want you back.
     
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  25. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    ..... and AshleyMadison called for you.
     
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  26. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    That's what is so stupid about passing out trophies for preseason play - TO ANY PLAYER.

    What I took away from what we saw is simply Tannehill has more "command" of Lazor's offense compared to last preseason. How that translates in the regular season when guys are playing not to get hurt and defenses aren't scheming? No idea.
     
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  27. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    :pity:
     
  28. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    :cry:
     
  29. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    This dude cant even admidt Ryan struggled at the beginning of last year...tells you all you need to know about the value of his opinion in regards to Ryan Tannehill.
     
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  30. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Hey, you said it.



    This guy really sucks.
     
  31. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Id say go look at offensive points scored vs def points allowed, they are basically even with Ryan...but you would just pass off blame to the OL , Wrs, coach, and jesus christ himself before you would accuse Ryan of struggling.

    It's middle school fandom.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You totally twisted what I said.

    But that's normal.

    And you can't admit that receivers leading the league in drops, with twice as many as the next closest, didn't drastically skew Tannehill's numbers for the worse.
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You aren't even remotely rational in these discussions.

    I like how you act like oline and receivers performance shouldn't be considered or discussed.

    I keep forgetting, it's only rational to lay all the blame on Tannehill. Again, I'll reiterate, the issue is those of you who absolutely refuse to put blame anywhere BUT on Tannehill. Then you get all crazed when anyone suggests that Tannehill wasn't the whole problem, and that his receivers, oline, and defense all were bigger problems. Note the word BIGGER. Not ONLY. Meaning, Tannehill had his struggles also.
     
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  34. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I get it, and appreciate the fact that you admitted to having a high standard. I'm not really familiar with everyone's ongoing opinions of Tannehill so I'm not privy to everyone's serious expectations of him. You want an elite-level QB, and we as fans all do, but it's impossible to tell if that will happen. I think we both want complementary football, though. The defense has to close out games as much as the offense has to. And it's not just about statistics either, it's about being clutch and showing up in win-time. I saw more faltering from the defense in that respect, last year, than the offense.
     
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  35. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Yaaawn, you've taken a page out of your old buddies book and only reply with hyperbole and putting assumptions in other peoples posts.

    You are following in the wrong guys footsteps. You seriously took what I said nd turned it into what you want it to be. Its not to late to change kid.
     
  36. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    You've said it. Those guys, for as good as they are (make no mistake, Rodgers and Manning are sure-fire hall-of-famers), would be worlds better if they could have defensive calls read for them on a headset right up to the snap. Can you imagine how insanely good they'd be if they could just have the exact coverage and exact receivers pinpointed to them?
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What exactly did I change?

    Again, you make ridiculous claims, get called on them, and instead of answering, you deflect and insult. I can only assume it's because you know you are wrong in your claims, and can't defend them.

    Defend the idea that the receivers being terrible for the first three games didn't negatively impact Tannehill's stats. Also, defend your statement that pointing out how Tannehill's oline and receivers poor play impacted Tannehill negatively is deflecting and not a rational look at Tannehill's play.
     
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  38. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Tannehill drops way too many of his passes. Some would say, this is his greatest flaw.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Very true. He needs to work on that.
     
  40. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You made a "claim" based on your poor understanding of what I said. You wont find a single post by me claiming its all his fault yet that is your go to statement so riduculous that the only person who likes it is the pound for pound worst poster on this site.

    Ofcourse all the factors are relevant, they always are...that shouldnt even merit being explained as its a given.

    This fine thread is about Ryan Tannehill correct?? So he is going to be the topic. If you are the 100M QB of a team then you will be held accountable for how your unit performs. Fair or not thats life.

    You shouldnt need to add a yea but to it, he struggled early last year...who cares? We are on to 2015 and he appears to be a helluva lot better than he was then. (Lets hope) so why does it chap your *** when basic comments about him are made? No one hates him despite the idiotic title, some simply want rhe best out of their QB, because??? Its the most important position in all of sports.
     
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