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The Official Tannehill Sucks/Doesn't Suck Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I dunno, man, I recall alot of this starting his rookie year, when people made predictions about Tannehill, based on stuff. I've always argued about the predictions, and have tried to give information on why many of the concerns around Tannehill aren't all his fault, hence the predictions, imo, aren't accurate.
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So ugliness and stupid looking thumbs AREN'T the fault of his parents? Would Tannehill be responsible for those things???
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No Deej, that's not true.

    The problem was and is, that people are blaming the wrong things on Tannehill. There's things they could blame on him, but instead pretend the deep ball is his problem. And they do that regardless of the mountain of evidence saying otherwise. Then these same people lie and hypocrite themselves all over the place.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    See this is the level of insanity you guys put out there.

    I didn't say Wallace was a bum. Far from it. I said in a different offense he could HoF good. But because I'm not fully cupping his balls, you guys over react and act like I called him a bum. I pointed out his flaws, and you all lose your collective **** and hurl insults.

    Then you turn around and accuse us of doing what you just did with Wallace.

    It is bat **** cuckoo bird bananas.
     
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  5. NCPhinFan

    NCPhinFan Active Member

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    It is mindboggling that the Dolphins fan base is so divided over probably one of the brightest and most promising players the franchise has seen over the past 15 years.
     
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  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The point flew over your head about as bad as one of Ryans deep passes to Mike Wallace last year.
     
  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    How are we divided? Everyone here is HAPPY to have him as our QB, thats why the creation of the thread title is about as stupid of a strawmen ive ever seen.

    We arent divided AT ALL.
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Almost to a man, those same people who blame Tannehill for everything from the deep ball issues to wins and losses have also defended the Patriots against the claims of cheating......make your own conclusions.....
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You obviously don't know what the word divided means.

    Actually, you don't know what strawman means either since you think the title makes one.
     
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  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What point did you think you were making then?
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    this is the way I look at it...when given the opp, ryan did not exectute certain deep passes, it had nothing to do with protection or small catch radius, I thought there were mechanical and fundamental things he didnt execute on...no'one ever said he was impervious, just stating what I thought he needed to improve from an individual standpoint...
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    His deep ball was average. Wallace's small catch radius and poor route running hindered the deep ball more than Ryan's issues did.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the times I isolated an open window to throw a deep ball were not average, they were't executed on his part..remember my definition of deep is different then what this debate has been centering around..

    but thats last year, every year things seem to be getting slower for him, I think he'll have better play speed which will give him more time to set up and see things more clearly way downfield.

    big day 2maro, gonna have to take a sleepin pill to gets some sleep.lol
     
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  14. Rances

    Rances New Member

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    I think the tannehill argument has been a good one the past few years. He's had his moments and he's missed some huge opportunities. I agree with DJ in spots, I think he has lacked a little bit of feel in spots. Some nuance when it comes to pocket breaking down, when to make plays with his feet, how and when he leads players to create better YAC.

    Yet for a guy who is still growing in his experience at the position the signs are unquestionably there. Maybe we need patience. He seems to be growing. He seems to have been hindered by wallace. I can't argue the people who say that Wallace should have had more of the blame.

    This year I think we all see a progression. Some of that may be evolution from him. Some of that addition by subtraction of Wallace. Alot of it I think comes from a transcendent young talent and charisma coming from Landry. Ryan seems to be feeling himself in this offense and Lazor seems to have hit his stride with Tannehill.

    It all comes down to in game performance and that begins tomorrow. I was a tannehill skeptic, I will admit it. But I do believe that while he may never be an incredibly spontaneous player I do think that he can be very rhythmic and efficient. He is poised to make the leap here and now.
     
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  15. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Not true. Philbin privately told Tannehill right away he was the starter. He just didn't tell the media and the media ran with the story.

    Despite that awkward week, and what some want to believe, Tannehill was never in danger of losing his starting job.
     
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  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Those criticizing him mostly are not calling him a bum. Just pointing out things he can improve on. Then it's "oh it's not his fault, you're stupid for looking at his win loss it's a team game, have you seen his oline, his WRs have dropped passes, poor route running, small catch radius, Wallace kicked my dog, yada yada yada."

    If you look at those who are criticizing Tannehill, ignore those who are lunatic fringe, most really like Tannehill but want to see more. When asked what they want to see, they're labeled haters. It's quite silly. I bet you most will label me a hater and I own the guy in all 3 of my fantasy leagues, one is a dynasty and he's my starter (I dropped Stafford and kept him). The other two I have Wilson and Romo so he's on my bench but I have faith in him and he's available cheap and late.

    I love Tannehill. I've held on to him since his rookie year but I'm REALISTIC. He's borderline top 10 and can take a jump this year but he needs to improve his YPA. He's had the same YPA throughout his career, including college. He has not been efficient throughout his college or NFL career. He's also hovered around 60% completion his first two years in the NFL and then takes a jump to 66% and yet, the YPA stayed essentially the same. Some say his averaged was dragged down the first 3 games while learning Lazor's offense. But his ypa the last 8 games was still 7.1.

    He needs to get that up. And don't say Tom Brady and ypa because that makes you lazy.
     
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  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Unlike a shiksa, doesn't suck.
     
  18. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Seriously, congratulations on this becoming the bickering thread you intended it to be. Can't wait to see your next glorious thread contribution. :up:
     
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  19. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh and those who say his deep ball wasn't the problem, but it was Wallace, why do they note Tannehill changed his mechanics? Everyone from Omar Kelly (blech) to Cohen have noted that there is now more arc in his ball?

    It's great he's worked to improve his longer throws (where was this 2 years ago) but that shows, his throws have been a problem.
     
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  20. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    They won't give you a straight answer on that one.

    Next up, pocket mechanics. For such a great athlete, he's rather stiff at times back there and doesn't have a natural feel for when to step up or slide a step or two sideways.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think whats happened in this ryan conversation is some folks throughout the process have been pretty adamant that the struggles is just part of the process, part of a natural curve to top 10 qb...I really dont think the deep ball was ever a big deal, I feel like the past three years he hasnt been seeing it clearly but left room in that dept that he had the potential to improve that element once the speed slows down, I think we all can see that hes an evolving talent, who has climbed a ladder that this league has never seen before,{ something ive always talked about} but its just that one part that Rances mentioned in his post, ''feel and nuance'' is what my only concern is..I think with his evolving game and our new skillset players and improving young vets its good enough, but is it championship 3rd down late in the game good enough? therein lyes my skepticism..but maybe its just part of a long process relative to where this dude started, which was a wide recever in the big 12 conference..

    my absolute favorite play from the preseason was when he pulled that ball down on 3rd down in chicago and ran for that first down....after that play, the whole offense opened up and they marched down the field.

    just please show me that nuance.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just haven't seen him become that cerebral QB yet. This year sounds like it may happen. I'll wait until the games start, but I'm hopeful. 4,500 yards, 7.5+ ypa, 35 TDs, 10 INTs., 65% average and I'm going to be giddy. If the running game and defense handle theirselves, that's champion ship quality play right there.
     
  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I look more at progression in terms of QBR and TD/INT ratio than anything else.

    If we get to a 100+ QBR and 3 to 1 TD:INT ratio we have ourselves a QB who will put us in the playoffs EVERY YEAR.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm gonna make this as clear as possible. (Though I have no hope it will work.)

    Deep ball stats are not very good for any QB. They fail more than they don't. All of them. Also the deep ball isn't used very often so one extra completion or one extra incompletion could skew the stats dramatically.

    No one but no one is suggesting/saying/declaring that Tannehill throws the perfect deep ball. All we are saying is that Wallace's issues are the BIGGEST FACTOR (NOT ONLY FACTOR) in the deep ball not being completed at an average level (not even an epically great level).

    So DJ, you can isolate a few plays and you can interpret what you want, but as I said most of the plays would be incomplete anyway as deep balls are completed at less than 50% across the league. Your eval will also be incomplete, because the play being run was not likely to be a play where Tannehill is supposed to throw it to Wallace directly but rather a predetermined spot based on the play design. If that's not true, please account for why Wallace's 2012 numbers in Pitt, looked right in line with his numbers here. Ask yourself, did Big Ben all of a sudden have the same problems Tannehill has? The only difference between 2012 and the years before that was they switched to a timing based offense.


    JD, so what he worked on his motion? Speed guys work on their speed, does that mean they were deficient with their speed before? As we've said time and again, there's things Tannehill can work on, but that =/= the problems with the deep ball were all or mostly his. What it does show is that Tannehill is striving to be better and putting the work in. Wallace wouldn't even play catch with his QB in the off season. You defended that.
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    it really didnt have anything to do with the result, it was the process, I didn't focus on the result because I noticed flaws in the process..am I not accountng enough for a natural progresssion in terms of a timeline?, maybe so, hes 27 years old, its time for the game to slow down, see it, measure it, or be quick enough to shift your feet to another platform..

    just seeing him being able to measure the deep ball is what im talking about, I havent seen that speed of play yet..this part of his game has been a slow developing process..I mean were trying to find ways hes going to become a championship elite qb right? thats the goal when evelauting him imo..
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    But again, you have to understand, you cannot judge that from the TV because of the timing based offense we use.

    You can judge that when its an offense like Marino used to run or the one Wallace was in before 2012 but not this offense. Wallace is not hitting his mark, so Tannehill has to readjust on the fly from targeting a spot to targeting the player. If he had to do one or the other, then that would be a different story.

    Again, don't overlook this, why did Big Rape have trouble with Wallace in 2012 when the years before they had no problem? Its because they switched to a timing based offense, and asking a QB in 2.5 seconds to not only read the defense and his receivers' routes, but to then on top of all that, readjust for one receiver to hit him on the least complete-able of passes, is too much for any QB.

    He is an average deep ball QB. He can work on becoming better at it and many other things. No one is arguing that. But he was not the problem with the deep ball to Wallace. Now, maybe Stills runs routes that are dead nuts and Tannehill then doesn't hit him a league average for deep balls.....THEN we can talk about Tannehill deep ball deficiencies. But until we see that, the majority of the blame rests at Wallace's feet. Its one of the main reasons he's no longer here.
     
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  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You guys see that TD pass Sims just dropped?
     
  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Swarm, vultures.
     
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  29. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well...after 1 half of play against Washington, Tannehill has had 4 good chances to push the ball downfield and 3 have lead his receivers out of bounds--2 of those being where he was moving while throwing. The throws to Simms, Stills and Cameron were all throw too far outside the field of play.

    These 3 throws are perfect examples of where Tannehill is losing yardage. He's a 4k QB and not a 4.5k QB because he misses those types of throws.

    I would like to believe that a greater QB would do a better job of giving his guys better looks.

    C'mon Tannehill...we all WANT to love you! :)


    ...and as I type this he lays it out there for Cameron--great job!
     
  30. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting tired of Tannehill's mistakes. I can tell you that right now.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, if this play from Tannehill continues after today, you wont see me defending him.
     
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  32. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    I knew from the moment I saw this thread that it would never die.
     
  33. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Its week 1, I will take it. Win is a Win! He was not great but was not terrible. He will have better games then this,
     
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  34. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ...and that's the point isn't it?

    In all honesty the OP was smart to start this.
     
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  35. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

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    I guess if it keeps all the unconstructive, QB-bashing vaulted in one thread without it leaking over into other discussions then I don't mind. Probably won't happen though.
     
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  36. Undisputed

    Undisputed Banned

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    So using this forum's logic....


    Luck sucks.

    0-1. Loser.
     
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  37. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Sucks for Luck!
     
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  38. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    His rating was better than his play but guys have those days. First and foremost his decision making was weak. Those near interceptions were basically down to making the wrong throw at the wrong time and the one to Landry in the redzone was egregious. Then you add the throws he just missed, e.g., the one to Sims that led to the injury and the one near the end where he just launches it in Landry's general direction though he was wide open. Heck, the batted down pass right after it was going to a bracketed receiver and may have been intercepted. You hope it's week one jitters and he picks it up moving forward but there was far more to dislike than to like this week.
     
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  39. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I just don't think the guy has much accuracy beyond 15 yards.
     
  40. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I believed the preseason hype Tannehill got better in the off season. Looked like the same old QB to me. QB rating doesn't reflect his level of play today.
     

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