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Bill Lazor's playcalling

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Clark Kent, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Is unbalanced and erratic... This isn't a ***** fest thread about the end of the world because Miami only beat Washington 17-10. We won. It was ugly, frustrating, and scary insofar as what it may represent... But a road W is a W. Especially if we get our act together, no one will care that we had to grind a win out.

    Here are my biggest issues w/Lazor that ALL showed up today.


    1). What is w/Lazor and his propensity to call 0 step drop, pass plays? These type of throws are great when you've got the defense on it's heels, playing off coverage. Not when the opposing team is rushing 4 and dropping 7 with up coverage. 1st and 10 turn into 2nd and 8. As soon as he lets Tannehill drop back, we're moving the ball like Washington isn't even there. And yet, we keep going back to what isn't working. Which brings me #2...

    2). When something is working... Don't stop doing it. When something isn't working, don't keep doing it. Simple, right? When things are going well, he loves to stop doing it, as if he's outsmarting the defense rather than himself. And when something isn't working, he likes to do it over and over again, like he's outsmarting the defense rather than himself.

    3). Run the ****ing ball, please... And preferably w/Lamar Miller. 13 carries? Really? Are we still doing that ****, again? Make an attempt to actually establish a running game and find some real balance. A perfect example is 1st and goal from the 3. Pass, pass (which turned into a -7 yard loss), pass. What the ****, Bill? Lazor loves to take simple arithmetic and turn it into rocket biology. Stop. Just ****ing stop. Oh and don't let that slow, indecisive Damien Williams EVER carry the ball on 4th and 1 in the red zone. EVER. AGAIN. Anyone remember Miami doing the same **** w/Daniel Thomas? Miller would be running just fine and they'd throw DT's slow, no power running, *** in there and he wouldn't make it. Lamar Miller is the only RB w/any legit talent on this roster. Use him and only him please.
     
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  2. Undisputed

    Undisputed Banned

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    Not enough runs, so not enough play action and where in the heck was Devante Parker??
     
  3. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I have never agreed that Lazor is some sort of offensive genius. He is average at best and I have always felt the only reason he is in Miami is because none of the top OC's wanted the job.

    While the talent on the team has improved over the past four years. I just continue to question the ability of the coaching staff to get the best out of these players on a weekly basis.

    I still feel it is going to take a change in coaching for this team to get beyond mediocre and I have felt that way for the past two years.
     
  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I can't take how often there was pressure with only four rushers.
     
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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the run/pass thing is very much a Philbin thing. He's dictating the flow of the game.

    Lazor puts a lot of effort and does a good job scheming the run game in my eyes. He doesn't treat it as a perfunctory thing like Sherman did, where they just keep defenses honest. Lazor really schemes well there and I wish they let him do it more.
     
  6. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya that pass to Landry that lost all those yards...he should have thrown it at his feet instead, just kill the play. Who knows though...friggin' Juice may have found a way to catch it anyway!
     
  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    So basically you are stating that that Philbin is really the OC and Lazor is simply there to develop schemes which Philbin chooses to ignore.

    I on the other hand think Lazor is not that great at game planning or play calling and is nothing but a very average OC in the NFL, just as he was merely average as an OC at the college level.
     
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  8. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    You had Albert playing at 70-80% coming off injury. Very average guard play and James is just an average RT in the NFL at this time. The OL was very average last year and not much was done to upgrade the line in the off season. If you think Tannehill was under pressure today, just wait until this OL goes against the Bills and Jets in the next three weeks.

    Tannehills wife might want to look into buying some extra life insurance on Ryan.
     
  9. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Would like us to use the screen play more often, that play is designed for a player like Lamar Miller.
     
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  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Philbin is the OC, but he isn't shy at intervening.

    Lazor designed the playbook, but based on what Philbin wants. Lazor calls the plays, but Philbin has veto and is going to dictate how aggressive/conservative they are and what type of plays in what situations.

    Ultimately I'm not sure you can entirely separate one from the other. I don't know if Lazor is a promising young talent held back by Philbin, or he's not any better on his own merits.
     
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  11. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Clearly we need to take some deeper drops and push the ball downfield more. That was working pretty well and is when the game started to turn in our favor. Once the Redskins D had to play deeper coverage ti opened up things more for us. We should have been attacking their Db's downfield much more than we did.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oh, no doubt. Just reiterating my frustration from last season. Tannehill has little time to throw, and is throwing into tight windows because of the extra coverage.
     
  13. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not just the playcalling that is a concern to me, it's the whole gameplan. Last year, and now this year we've seen the offense just looked completely inept, and incompetent. Lost. The opposing defenses, no matter how bad, or how good are all over the things we're doing. It really makes me question the whole offensive gameplan, and how our coaches are preparing their players, especially the QB to suceed. Are we even taking into consideration what the opposition is going to to, or may do? Today, you'd think we would have had a plan to beat up on this redskins D, which is lacking talent, but it was pretty obvious they had the better gameplan. I felt more than anything we were outcoached today. Out-executed for the most part too, but at the end of the day, we fought, adjusted, got back into it and special teams sealed the deal. It still leaves questions in my mind about the game planning and preparation being done by the staff.
     
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  14. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    According to Lazor, most of the plays have a deep ball option built into them and it is up to Tannehill to see the defense and make the call at the line of scrimmage.
     
  15. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I don't like Lazor's scheme or his play calling. Why are we in shotgun so much? This is the NFL, not Texas Tech.
     
  16. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because our OL sucks.
     
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  17. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    We've spent a ton of money and draft picks on the o-line and they still suck.
     
  18. Phinz420

    Phinz420 New Member

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    Well about the shotgun, a couple reasons we used it so much today. One, we lost our 2nd tight end early on, and with our failed attempts subbing in linkenbach showed that we could not rely on 2te formations to run the ball. Also, the shotgun with quick reads was obviously meant to assist tanny with the sack issues we have suffered for years. I would also say that runs from the gun are really designed for a back with millers skillset.

    In the end it was just very obvious we went into the gun far more than we are used to once we lost sims. That is probably the biggest reason we saw it so much. Losing him really affected our playbook this week.
     
  19. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Sims I think, will most likely be out for a couple weeks. I assume they will bring Stoneburner up to fill in the open spot.
     
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  20. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Thought we didn't try enough things in the seam or crossing routes . I get the want for screens and we can be effective but I think at times we fixate too much on them , like Ist and goal at the 3 , let's attack the scoring area and not try to add 10 yards to the play .

    We need to be pretty much gold if it's first and goal from the 3 .
     
  21. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Sure , if we get protection . Let's start with that .

    On a side note , Luck lost , Wilson lost , Griffin was inactive , Tannehill won though :)
     
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    What bugged me was that we were all runs early on and not moving the sticks at all, and then we reached a point in the 2nd quarter where we just flat out stopped running the ball at all. That's frustrating. At least they came back to the run later on though and let Miller show why he deserves to get those carries...the run blocking still wasn't there but it makes a world of difference when the defense is not expecting it.
     
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  23. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Thought we only had 4 runs in the 1st half?
     
  24. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The run/pass ratio really isn't the problem and here's why...

    Until this team shows up with a gameplan that involves pushing the ball downfield early instead of WR screens, inside runs, quick slants, off-tackle runs, short drops, etc they're going to put themselves behind the 8-ball and have to use the 2nd half to play catch-up. We saw what running early meant...a lack of 1st down conversions. That's not the answer. It's only the answer if your O-line can do it--and Miami's cannot.

    If it's not clear, let me spell it out...Miami is a team that must set up the run with the pass.

    There is no reason Ryan Tannehill can't be the center of the game-plan most weeks as virtually all good QBs are. Today we basically saw the team use the same "hide the QB" mentality it's been using for most of the last 3 seasons. Tannehill is a big boy, let him push the ball down the field.

    If he continually misses those shots to Sims, Stills and Cameron down the field and pushes the ball too far outside the field of play for his guys to even have a shot, at the very least we'll know he's an average QB. The thing is, we don't see it enough to really make a good judgement and both the O-line and the QB are ultimately hindered by the overall approach.

    It's not the other teams don't have O-line challenges, they do. The good teams do a far better job or working around it. When you don't have a dominant O-line it's all the more important you push the ball downfield early and that you find ways of getting your QB outside the pocket to take the necessary shots.

    If Tannehill would've attacked down the field 4-5 times each game last year to Wallace, we would likely all be in agreement as to who's fault it was....either that or they would've developed some semblance of chemistry and actually put up the yardage that's usually there with a 10 TD guy.

    If this is going to be an offense that airs it out and throws the ball more than any other decent offense does (which it WAS last year), they need to push it downfield more than they do.

    That NEEDS to happen.

    It's really the ONLY thing that needs to happen. Everything else is small potatoes compared to that.


    Last year Tannehill averaged 250 yards per game. That stats needs to be closer to 270 or 280 yards per game. That's all that needs to happen for Tannehill to be a statistically "elite" QB. Today, he threw for 226 yards. That's regression. C'mon....you are not that far away. Open the offense up! It's not about rushing the ball more. That's just going to get Miller hurt. He can stand maybe 2 more carries a game before he's going to get too beaten up--at least until Ajayi or some other RB takes the physical 1st-half bruising.

    Yes, I would like to see the team rush a little bit more, BUT part of being a 5.1 ypc runner is that you run at the right times and you don't force the issue. That's only going to increase the physical workload on Miller and turn him into the 4 ypc type of RB you see with guys that have 250-275 carries behind less than dominant O-lines.


    As I just posted in the other thread 226 / 34 = 6.647.

    If you don't raise that to 7.5 at least you're not giving your O-line any leverage and most runs are going to result in very little gains. Miami has an average O-line. They NEED to come out more aggressively pushing the ball downfield. You CANNOT have a $100M QB throwing short every 1st quarter.
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We've been off balance on run/pass since Sherman. It's a Philbin thing
     
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  26. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Having a bad game doesn't equal regression. Now if it becomes a trend, then yes, but that shouldn't be much of a worry. Everybody has a bad game here and there, even the leets.
     
  27. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    1st drive: 2nd and 2 = 1 yard. Next play 3rd and 1 = got stuffed.
    2nd drive: 2 and 10 = 1 yard.
    3rd drive: 4 and 1 = got stuffed.
    4th drive: 9 plays, no runs and ended up in a TD.

    1st half = 4 runs for 2.
     
  28. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to trash the play calling but I'd only be dung it bc it didn't work. Clearly Miami came in thinking they were better off attacking thru the air. I'll have to study the coaches film to see what really happened but generally speaking any lessons learned in a win are icing on the cake.
     
  29. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, let's do more of that.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the qbs entire skillset is not tied into the gameplan.
     
  31. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Don't agree with everything you said, but I do agree that the offense needs to take more risks on downfield throws to open up the field more. I think Tannehill can make those throws, but he needs to start trying more. I think in Lazor/Philbin's attempt to taylor the offense to Tannehill's strengths, they maybe don't push him as much as he needs to be pushed and he ends up staying inside his comfort more often than he should.
     
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  32. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Remember "teams" win or lose games. Or does that not apply anymore?
     
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  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    BRAVO.

    Every word of it.
     
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  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I hope there is a clear answer to this INTERNALLY, at least for Tannenbaum and Marino, because they will be advising Ross on whether to consider Lazor as Philbo's replacement if we underacheive (again) this year.
     
  35. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think there is any reason at all that Bill Lazor should be considered as head coach of this team. Even if his offense has a good year this year, it's incredibly premature.
     
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  36. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Our short yardage run offense has been a joke since OL guru Philbin got here and it continues.

    Running a pass play targeted behind the line of scrimmage after getting 1st down at the 2 on a PI is either just brutal game planning or really poor QB decision making...
     
  37. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill chooses not the throw the ball down the field, that is all on him and no one else. As far as running the ball it has been shown every week and I have said it for years, the team has to run out of a spread offense. They cannot simply line up power ball and run, they for some reason cannot block like that.
     
  38. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    So when they Phins are trying to kill the clock they had a 3rd down coming out of the 2 minute warning. I was assuming a run to at least get another 30 seconds off before a punt and pray that Cousins can't score a TD with 1:30 left (He's not Tony Romo right?) But Lazor calls a screen pass and gets the first down.

    I was impressed by the balls of that call.
     
  39. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe if our defense instilled more confidence and the offense got a bit of a cushion to work off of early they would be more comfortable running the ball. I get the sense that they look at this team a lot like we do, always concerned that one or both units will collapse at any moment. So they are very worried that running the ball on the first two downs of a possession and making Tannehill try to make a play on 3rd and 8 will end poorly, and the defense won't pick up the slack. A team like the Ravens doesn't care because they think the defense will keep it close. Or a team like the Pakers doesn't care because if the defense doesn't hold up their end because they can make up for it with a good offense.

    In short, saying 'let's give the ball to Miller 3 times and see what happens' is hard to do when Washington is going to do the same and gouge our defense. Better to just let Tannehill dink and dunk and maybe we'll get lucky a few times.
     
  40. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    The best choice. The Redskins would be coming for Ryan on 3rd and long and it is relatively low risk throw.
     

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