Will you consider tannehill still a franchise QB if he doesnt lead us to playoffs?

What football gods guaranteed us that we're making the playoffs this year?

No expectations. Just watch'em play.

 

Tannehill had decent protection this game. Of course, Thomas completely missed one, but overall the pass protection was not a problem. An all too common excuse for Tannehill. Two of the three sacks can be attributed to Tannehill as reported by James Walker.

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolph...yan-tannehill-i-wasnt-happy-with-how-i-played


This past Sunday Tannehill was at fault on two of Miami's three sacks allowed because he held the ball too long. He also lost a fumble in the third quarter to Washington that could have been a big play in the game. But the Dolphins' defense bailed Tannehill out and stopped the Redskins' offense.
"Sacks don't usually lose you games but sack-fumbles can," Dolphins offensive coordinator Bill Lazor said. "The quarterback also has to secure the football."


And "yes" both can happen of dumping the ball off short of 1st down marker on 3rd down and at other times holding on to the ball too long. Maybe he just gets antsy of throwing the ball down the field unless the player is wide open. Out of his 7 3rd down completions 3 were left short Sunday.

 

Is it only sacks that dictate poor line play??

 

I think its a little silly to hold the Washington game as an example of Tannehill's issues.

For example, no one can argue that if Tannehill is above average at anything, its throwing on the run. Yet, the pass to Sims and the pass to Stills (both would have been TDs btw) were throws on the run. That should tell everyone the only problem with Tannhill was rust or jitters.

 

Pocket presence. This is one of Tannehill's most glaring weaknesses.


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Another thing, what does "held the ball too long" even mean? What is too long? Is it four seconds? Five seconds?

 

Generally speaking I think you want the ball out by 3 seconds.

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Yeah, I would agree that most plays are calling for the ball out in around 3 seconds. So, is Walker claiming that Tannehill held the ball longer than 3 seconds on many plays? I don't recall seeing that. Further, if Tannehill is holding the ball for longer than three seconds, and is still throwing too many balls short, wouldn't that be an indictment of the receivers not getting open, or poor playcalling/scheme?

I'm sorry, I don't necessarily agree with an analysis that simply looks and says "QB X is holding the ball too long." There are many factors that could go into that.

 

the elite QB's know how long too long is.... it varies play to play..... that is what Thill does not F E E L

 

The league avg is < 2.5. At 3 seconds IIRC, you basically have a 50% chance of being pressured. 3 seconds is basically the max, but either way, it's up to the QB to adjust based on his protections. I'm not speaking specifically to last game, just in general here.

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So, again, we're going to complain that Tannehill holds the ball too long. But we're also going to complain that he throws it quickly and short too often. In a timing offense, it seems to me that you have to have time for the routes downfield to develop, which requires the line to hold blocks. I've been trying to find replays of the 3 sacks of Tannehill, but the only one I can seem to find is that fumble one...which was a four man rush, destroying the oline, and getting to Tannehill is 3 seconds, or just under. I know I counted other four man rushes getting pressure while I was watching the game, so, I don't know. I mean, like I've said so often, 4 man rushes getting pressure means Tannehill has to get rid of the ball fairly quickly, but has to throw against 7 defenders.

We need the oline to be able to sustain a run game, so that teams can't keep rushing 4 and dropping 7 guys into coverage.

 

Yeah, I don't recall specific numbers for Tannehill last season, but I know, throughout his first two seasons, Tannehill was one of the top QBs for getting rid of the ball, in the least amount of time. People have often cited him holding the ball too long, but wasn't actually the case through the first two seasons. Again, I don't know what he averaged last season in regards to average time he took to throw the ball.

 

Not only that, its just a question of logic....

Great 40 yard times in underwear are 4.2 seconds. So people complain that Tannehill holds the ball too long which is like 3 seconds. Now considering that the new definition of deep ball is 40yrds (according to this board) and a fast WR without gear and getting jammed at the line needs 4.3 seconds to get to 40 yards.....well....I think we start seeing the problem.

 

Yeah its akin to saying he had an accident because he was driving too fast. "Too fast" doesn't mean anything without context, its implied that he was driving too fast for that particular situation.

Its the same thing with the "he's holding it too long" critique. And one of the most disturbing things from that game for me was he didn't recognize a 3 man rush and got antsy in the red zone and checked it down too quickly. Great QBs seem to have eyes in the back of their heads and if its a 3 man rush they'll hold the ball forever sometimes waiting for a guy to get open. Its an intangible.

 

I remember one play last week, I was watching the line, and when it caved Tanny had nowhere to run. I don't think his pocket presence is great, does not have that innate instinct to slip and slide like Danny had, but sometimes there is nowhere to slide to.

 

I felt he rarely had anywhere to go in years past, but last week I thought he had space to maneuver.

 

Go back and watch. I can't watch it for you.

Watching my fellow Dolphin fans rebut you...it's like watching them go at it with a Jet fan. Enjoy rooting against our QB Sunday.

 

One thing that really sticks out about all those stats about coming back in the 4th quarter and OT, is that all the losing instances came in 2012 and 2013...he was 2-0 in those scenarios in 2014...but that's not the narrative from the critic side...little disingenuous there maybe? Unless, of course it is established he's the same QB now as in 12/13...good luck with that one.

 

So by this logic, any QB who has ever taken a coverage sack is not elite...well this league has never seen an elite QB because ever QB has taken a coverage sake.

Come on guys get real

 

Never mind. I'm getting OT

 

Which is something Tanny is not adept at doing yet.

 

Which weighs more heavily? Total body of work or two games?

If you're suggesting that those two games are the birth of a new trend - then fine. However it's a bit premature given sample size.

 

You see, this is just wrong. Anybody that points out flaws in Ryan Tannehill's game gets posts like these thrown in their face. Please show me where anyone insinuated what you posted here. Of course Tannehill has been sacked due to coverage. He also has poor pocket presence. Both can and do co-exist ya know.

 

Quote Originally Posted by dolphin25 View Post
the elite QB's know how long too long is.... it varies play to play..... that is what Thill does not F E E L

According to this post "Elite QBs can feel the pressure and avoid these types of sacks.

 

I am just sick and tired of all of the Tannehill threads...whys Isn't there just one thread for this....too early in the season to start this crap again....

 

Some people just love to hate....it's in their nature I guess

 

Well, there is one thread for all this.

 

Yes...total body of work, including his improvement since 12/13, which is why I made the comment about comparing his play now to 12/13. The 2-0 jives with his improved play, and is the most recent running information relative to that statistic. No way of knowing yet if it's the birth of a new trend, but it does represent a full season.

 

And they most definitely do co-exist. It's a very symbiotic relationship.

 

What can be added to this, is his seeming inability to throw the ball away, or take a sack, he rarely throws the ball away or takes sacks, sure he's sacked plenty, but he rarely goes down to protect the ball, just turtle up on it, case in point was this game, with multiple rushers chasing him, he turns his back on them while holding the ball like a loaf of bread, which led to a ridiculous fumble, what he should have done is just go down, protect the ball.

He doesn't throw the ball away, he scrambles until he gets sacked, or gains yards, rarely doing the smart thing and throwing it away, putting the team in too many loss of yardage situations, but it does help his completion %.

 

Elite QB's very seldom do they take a true coverage sack. You do see them throw the ball away often. THill does not do that.

 

Ya you notice that happening...also, on that throw to Landry where they lost yardage in the RZ, I've also noted QBs throw that into the ground or over the head out of bounds to just kill the play and not lose yards. He'll learn from that.

Edit: IF the coaches get into his *** about it, he'll learn.

 

I think your confusing opportunity with a sign Tannehill performed well under pressure last year.

In 2014 we were in 5 close games, 2 wins and 3 losses. In the 2 losses the opposing QB led their team to a GWD (game winning drive)...Rodgers with Packers and Stafford with Lions by cbrad's criteria. Against the Broncos, Tannehill did have an opportunity to reclaim the lead with a little over 3 minutes left but threw an interception which Denver converted with a TD to extend the lead to 11. Miami scored a TD to make it close, but Denver then ran out the clock.

As much as I appreciate cbrad research crediting Tannehill with GWD as he defined it (cbrad's criteria for GWD = So, I just went through all Dolphins games from 2012 and looked at which games Tannehill had a "reasonable" amount of time within the last 2 minutes, so not something like 10 seconds left near your own goal line at the beginning of a drive to win the game.) wouldn't have credit for the two wins.

Against the Jets, Tannehill did lead Miami to a FG drive that proved to be the difference. However, the only play within 2-minutes as a FG after the drive stalled with a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 7. There were no offensive plays within the final 2 minutes. The Jets got the ball back with 1:57 seconds left to try and tie or win it, but don't have a franchise QB and Geno through an interception.

Against the Vikings, Tannehill led Miami on a Game Tying Drive (which is good). But the Game Winner was not a drive, but a safety when Fede blocked a punt going out of the endzone.

The other games Miami lost and won were decided by pretty wide margins so there wasn't opportunity to perform or not perform well under pressure.

So by cbrad's criteria last year we would have had 2 GWD against us and none for us (unless you count a. So we did see franchise QB play last year, but by the opposing teams.

 

Mad are we. LOL

44 years and counting.

So was it the ineptitude I alluded to that made you mad, or was it the fact that your whole life except when you were 4 and 5, which you can not remember, you have never seen this team hoist the Lombardi.

Never said anything about anyone not wanting to dominate the Patriots. My standards have never wavered. Winning isn't everything it is the only thing. There is no trophy for second place. If you don't believe it and buy into the philosophy, you will never achieve that greatness. Because that greatness takes 100% effort, 100% of the time. Do the Dolphins have it ?

Not sure how Fin D enters the picture.

Its Marketing. Surely you have heard of it. Like it or not this team is a business. A product (Miami Dolphins) is put out for you to enjoy. You, me or whoever continue to purchase tickets, go to games, buy merchandise etc ----all the while lining Ross's pockets with more money. As long as this continues we will keep Our 8-8 record and dumb down our standards so we feel like where successful. You know that highly addictive drug called Dopimine your brain produces for pleasure. There is little reason to do anything different. they get your money, you get your drug.

LOL

 

Of course they do --- everyone is watching

why does there seem to be a Tannehill sucks or is Tannehill good enough thread almost daily? Compare his numbers to Dan Marino. Very similar.

 

Bingo.

I almost said the exact same thing yesterday.

Fan standards have been eroded. Like someone who hasn't eaten in days when they finally get their hands on some scraps - that ish is going to taste like a ribeye steak. It works the same for football fans. The Dolphins brass attempted to inject the franchise with some excitement by finally drafting a QB early in the 1st round or nabbing a guy like Suh ..... and then most buy the hype when in actuality not a lot has changed under the hood.

 

How about you go back and watch the game. I did watch the game, twice and both times I saw one drop to Matthews. You obviously didnt watch the game and are making blind assumptions because you have a man crush on Tannehill.

 

Don't even get me started on the numbers. Marino played during an era that wasn't pro-passer quite like it is today. Had the man played in today's NFL he would destroy the numbers these other guys are putting up.

 

And still lose the number that matters most.....0-1