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Looking at the Falcons...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DolphinGreg, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In 2008 both the Falcons and Dolphins were in total rebuild mode. Both franchises had suffered through embarrassingly bad 2007 years. Both teams had recently seen HC’s (Saban and Petrino) bail on their teams, flee their responsibilities and head back to NCAA ball—actions which assured neither would even be welcomed to the NFL again. To make matters worse, Atlanta was coming off the Michael Vick disaster while Miami was coming off a horrendous 1-15 season having turned to Cam Cameron. It may be argued that 2007 was the roughest year either franchise had ever endured.

    Both teams were pressing hard to acquire the expertise of Bill Parcells. Miami wound up winning over Parcells, signing a host of veteran FA talent and selecting T Jake Long first overall. Meanwhile, the Falcons settled for Patriots Director of Scouting Thomas Dimitroff and began their journey with HC Mike Smith and second overall pick, QB Matt Ryan. The rest is history.

    I guess like many of you, I’ve looked at the path of both teams as being sort of intertwined since that 2008 offseason. While Miami had some initial success that seemed to stall quickly upon Chad Pennington’s exit. Chad Henne failed to live up to expectation and the team quickly lost momentum. The Falcons however were able to ride the success of their elite rushing attack, coach up their young pocket passer and get off to an astounding 5 straight winning seasons which totaled a 56-24 record over that stretch. Yet, as the rushing attack faded, the defense slowly devolved and the team began to lean on Matt Ryan, the magic was lost. Multiple devastating Play-off losses also questioned the legitimacy of the teams record.

    Fast forward a few years and neither team is happy. The Falcons are once again “reloading” (to use Julio Jones’ phrase) and Miami has most likely seen the end of the Joe Phibin era. But the Falcons are a year ahead and are clearly better off this season.


    It occurred to me that in 2015 Miami will probably go through the same awful year the Falcons did last year as the Mike Smith project finally crashed and burned, much in the way all teams do at the end of a 4-6 year regime. The surprising news is the Falcons made it out and are in good shape. So how did that happen and why should we care?

    Let me summarize what the 2014 Falcons were and you tell me if this sounds like any team you’ve seen recently.

    Last year, the Falcons defense ranked dead last under a DC whose creativity was considered attractive 5 or so years ago (Mike Nolan). Despite Matt Ryan putting up very good statistical numbers, the team just couldn’t compete. Their otherwise talented young QB suffered behind a badly built O-line with little help from his running game. The team underachieved its way to a losing record starting 2-6 before salvaging some respectability going 4-4 over the season’s second half staggering to a 6-10 finish.

    The coaching staff was ultimately removed as the experiment was shown to have failed and the team looked stagnant. Fans became disappointed and depressed seeing that their promising team had slowly devolved into a mess which featured a general lack of talent at all 3 levels of the defense as well as on the O-line.

    But the upside for the Falcons was that they had a few pieces on offense. They had a solid, productive QB and a couple above-average WRs. They had a little bit of developmental talent scattered around at RB, TE and OT thanks to a few good draft picks. Hell, they even had plans for a new stadium!

    Does that not sound shockingly familiar?

    It does to me!

    If I had to guess, I’d say that’s probably what we’re in for this year as Dolphins fans.

    So what did the Falcons do?

    Looking to complement the offensive pieces already in place, the team first hired Seattle’s DC Dan Quinn as HC in an attempt to add toughness to a unit which had fallen badly behind.

    Second, the front office under Belichick disciplines Dimitroff and Pioli focused on adding defensive talent at key positions as they rebuilt the unit. This included a trio of young Tigers: first round DE Vic Beasley from Clemson, second round CB Jalen Collins from LSU, and fifth round DT Grady Jarrett also from Clemson.

    Third, the Falcons added to the O-line. Having selected rookie first round T Jake Matthews in 2014, the team added rookie G Jake Rodgers late in the draft as well as veteran G Andy Levitre and veteran T Jake Long to add some stability to a line of question marks and inexperience.

    The Falcons now look like one of those arrow-up teams again. They have a proven and productive QB with weapons. They finally have some stability on their line and a couple good young RBs to carry the ball. They toughened up their front-7 and added some help to the back end as well. They did enough to make a difference and to at least put themselves on the right track so that they can continue adding pieces next year.

    The Falcons aren’t done. There’s still a ways to go, but it’s clear they made some strong decisions and are reaping the benefits with their 3-0 start. They added 3 young pieces to begin reestablishing their defensive presence while adding veterans to fill the holes on their O-line where they needed immediate production. Their offense looks strong (averaging 29.7 points thus far) and their defense now has long term hope with new blood and a new HC who’s in charge of that unit.



    With Dan Quinn, Rex Ryan and Todd Bowles (3 great defensive minds) all entering new HC positions, Miami may have simply missed out. That’s the reality of it. However, I think we may all want to pay a little attention to the team Miami could wind up resembling, whether or not that be by design or just mere coincidence.

    What I admire about the Falcons 2015 offseason is that they kept their heads down and quietly righted the ship with smart moves. It’s similar to what Parcells did in 2008. You don’t have to spend big money on FAs, in fact that’s counterproductive. What you want from free agency is veteran reliability where you need it. You just have to understand where you’re at, do what you can and all the while respect what the game is about. The Falcons seem to have done that.
     
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  2. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    You can't even compare the organizations. They are well run, we are a joke. And their owner is 10x better than ours.
     
  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Falcons have done better overall (except in 2013 and 2014), but I don't really care about who has the greater winning % over the years or who seems to have the better organization. I'll consider whoever wins the SB first (since 2007) the winner of this competition (one SB is worth more than any number of winning seasons IMO).
     
  4. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The point is, I hope Miami learns from what they Falcons are doing right now.


    I don't think there's any rivalry going on between the teams. That is definitely NOT what I intended to say.


    The point is, they have traveled two different roads but are currently somewhat similar, just a year apart.
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I know what you were trying to say (or said). I'm just saying there IS a rivalry at all times among all NFL teams: they all want to win the SB. So what I'm saying is the real judge of who traveled the better path can only be determined after we see one of the two teams win a SB (if you agree that winning a SB is the ultimate goal).

    Of course, there's nothing wrong with suggesting one team is doing better than another in the meantime and I tend to agree with you regarding the Falcons.
     
  6. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    The real difference between these teams is a top 6-8 QB and a top 3 WR. And the obvious being coaching staff....Joe loses that battle to anyone.
     
  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Matt Ryan was overrated during his winning seasons (although he was good in 2012, the year they made the NFC CG) and then the correction comes, and he's underrated quite a bit. I'm sure Dolphins fans rated him even lower than the general population, due to Jake Long vs. Matt Ryan debates.

    He is a good QB, guaranteed top 10, and possibly higher depending on who you ask.

    But I think he was the 3rd pick not 2nd. And yes, we should have taken him, not Jake Long.
     
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  8. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I think this is more "what happened after" than anything, not to say that there weren't those that wanted Ryan, but he wasn't any type of "lock" QB, the 2 best players in the draft, went 1st and 2nd, that was the general consensus at the time, the 2 best players were J Long and C Long, and that was a tossup, everybody in the NFL world knew that the 2 Longs were the 1st 2 picks.

    So, even if you advocated drafting Ryan, you cannot fault the Dolphins for picking a player that everyone in the world had higher on their chart, if J Long had the career that his ability promised, he'd still be one of the best OTs in the game, possibly being talked about as one of the greats, he had that type of ability and then there wouldn't be the need for this thread, no disrespect to the OP, I like a lot of your writing, I just disagree on this.
     
  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A QB that is 7 or 8 out of 10, is infinitely more valuable than a 10/10 LT, RB, WR, Center, whatever. Infinitely. It's Joe Thomas vs. Philip Rivers, or Matt Ryan, etc.

    You think a QB can be good, and you really really need a QB, you take him.

    The problem is, Ireland, Sparano and Henning went on a scouting trip for Parcells and saw Henne. They came back and said Henne was every bit as good as Matt Ryan. So Parcells made the choice to take Long, and target Henne. It was a mistake. A huge one.
     
  10. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    You are totally correct. I remember after the 2008 draft, Parcells and his minions stating that they thought Henne would be as good or better than any QB taken in that draft and that Long would be a fixture at LT for the Dolphins for the next decade.

    They might have been right about Long if he had been able to stay healthy, but Henne was a complete waste as a second round pick and they gave up the chance of drafting a top 10 QB in Ryan. All in all, they screwed the pooch in the 2008 draft.
     
  11. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Yea because the Falcons have been so dominant since 07 lol. Tannehill has a lot of time to grow and really expand upon his natural skill sets that are absolutely superior to Matt Ryans. Which happens to be exactly what this team needs after Quesy gets the boot. Matt Ryan on the other hand, is running out of time. He's a nice, smart QB though I'll give you that. Long was the better pick at the time as well and after getting Tannehill I'm happy where we are, even compared to Atlanta. Must be nice playing the wounded NFC East and AFC South for 10 of your games this year. They won't get over the hump though, Ryan's not an elite QB. He's just good, like at B.C.
     
  12. cdnfinfan

    cdnfinfan New Member

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    No one is gonna mention the fact that the biggest difference between the two is that one plays in the NFC South and the other plays in the AFC East?

    our team is built to beat the Patriots, and soemthing that we have failed to accomplish for the last 10 years.
    They play in a divisionwith no clear "champion" that they are able to build with their OWN vision.

    We are such a horribly run franchise. All we have been doing is chasing and reacting to other teams and not ONCE being a leader in that regard. this is ON and OFF the field
     
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What natural skill sets does Tannehill have that are absolutely superior to Ryan? Since 2012 Ryan has yet to dip below 65% accuracy. YPAs in the mid 7s except one year to go with that. The Falcons made the playoffs multiple times, winning 13 games twice (not sure how you are LOL'ing at that fact), playoffs four times, NFC CG once. We've only made one playoff since 2001, and no playoff games since 2000. In 5 years we'll have rookies in the NFL who weren't even born since the last time the Dolphins won a playoff game if we don't right this ship.

    So what is it. Vision? Accuracy? Deep pass? Tannehill is the master of the 3 yard pass to Landry, I'll give him that. He's a faster runner, there is that. But Tanny has shown NOTHING that says he's better than Matt Ryan definitely. Nothing.

    Meanwhile, Tanny has played bad 2 out of 3 games here to start the year, his breakout year.

    As for the NFC South you don't go 13-3 twice, and 11-5 once, unless you beat the whole league up. That's 7 wins on top of the supposed 6 gimmes. And you don't beat the Seahawks in the playoffs if you're a pushover.
     
  14. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Completely agree with jdang. If you get Tannehill an offensive line, they MIGHT be even, we dont know yet if Tannehill can lead a team to the playoffs we havent seen it. to say Tannehill is better than Matt Ryan has no basis behind it to support it. None whatsoever. Same goes with the Luck comparisons.
     
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  15. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Matt Ryan has dealt with mediocre patchwork OLs himself.
     
  16. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Ryan was not the 7th or 8th best QB when he was drafted, that is revisionist history, Ryan was not the 2nd coming out of college, the Long's were, they drafted a player that was higher on their board, and pretty much everyone else's board.
     
  17. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didn’t intend for this to become about going back in time and re-doing the 2008 draft. No, no no.

    I’m sure that Parcells would be the first to tell you that his projection of Henne was inaccurate and that Matt Ryan would’ve been the best player to have taken—that’s obvious now—but that’s not really the point. Besides, we can never know how much of a player’s success and/or failure comes from the other coaches and players involved. That’s way too complicated to figure out.


    The point I was trying to make was how shockingly similar the 2014 Falcons appear to have been to the Dolphins now in 2015.

    Both teams had solid QBs.
    Both teams had some talent at the skill positions.
    Both teams had horrible offensive lines with 1 or 2 young talents.
    Both teams had bad running games with a little talent in the backfield.
    Both teams had a noticeable lack of defensive talent.
    Both teams had disappointing DCs who were once widely admired for their creativity.
    Both teams had head coaches on the verge of getting fired.

    Etc., etc., etc.


    The point is that the Falcons seemed to have done well in their coaching search by targeting a well-qualified DC to complement the steady QB’ing of their franchise QB. They already knew that they’d get production from Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Roddy White, Devanta Freeman, etc. The biggest thing they needed on offense was a few veterans to stabilize the line.

    Thus, there was no need to chase after an offensive-minded OC/HC to try and make more out of that. They understood they’d do better and ultimately enact more change by finding a defensive-minded HC that could fix the larger problems that existed on the defensive side of the ball. I think the Dolphins should do the same. Rather than chase an offensive coach, they should go after a defensive coach who can rebuild the defense—the team’s weakest link.

    Moreover, the Falcons began rebuilding their crippled defense by address several key positions in the draft which included a pass rusher, a disruptive DT (who should be a bargain as a 5[SUP]th[/SUP] rounder) and a CB who many had rated very highly.

    Again, I think the Dolphins should do the same. In Miami’s case, it seems they should focus on finding talent that can make a difference at DE, MLB and CB.


    I’m not saying Miami needs to follow the Falcons model exactly. For one, there is no DC on the market this year who could be considered on the same level as a Todd Bowles, a Dan Quinn or a Rex Ryan. However, the Falcons turn around (if it indeed continues) may be evidence that Miami should look a little harder and do a little more digging to find qualified candidates on the defensive side of the ball.

    I say this because I know a lot of people will argue the team needs someone who can mentor Tannehill and those folks will spend the next 4-5 months talking about Sean Payton, Mike Shannahan, and other offensive-minded coaching candidates.

    I’m just pointing to the Falcons and saying, here is a team that had the same problems as Miami and they seem to be headed in the right direction now.

    I think that happened largely because they committed to fixing their defense and brining in a HC who’s background involved success on that side of the ball.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your banking on potential still?, id take matt ryan over tannehill..
     
  19. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Our front office basically thought that taking Long and then Henne in the 2nd round was the way to go. Basically they thought that Ryan and Henne were close and that was a terrible analysis of personnel that we are still paying for. I don't think its hindsight for a lot of people to say we should have taken Ryan. You build around a young Qb not a young LT if you want to win a title. We screwed up. We had a top 10 Qb and 10-15 year franchise guy there and passed. Just like we did with Aaron Rodgers. There isn't any real secret as to why we didn't find a good Qb until Ryan, we were never willing to invest a top pick and take a chance. Its a crap shoot to take a Qb early but you have to have the guts to do it.
     
  20. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    We need to stop comparing this poor kid to Andrew Luck and Matt Ryan....it's unfair to him and to the 3-4 ppl here who actually think its a worthy discussion the rest of us become "haters".
     
  21. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm so sick of seeing that word on fan forums.
     
  22. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    We're much closer to the Washington Redskins than the Atlanta Falcons.
     
  23. atomdomb

    atomdomb Banned

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    Wow. Just wow.
     
  24. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    When Brady retires and the Patsies return to the s*** they have always been before that man got there. And Matt Ryan is getting old and still ring-less, talk to me then. Sadly by then, you and half of the current Patriots "fans" will have found a new team :sad:
     
  25. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    I'm not banking on it. I'm just acknowledging we suck right now and our time is the future, not the present. And in the future, yea, I'd prefer a younger, more mobile QB than an old statue.
     
  26. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure I see that one at all. The Redskins:

    (1) are off to a surprising start, which has been a shock to almost everyone (in a good way)

    (2) have a very physical rushing attack with 2 very appealing RBs

    (3) have a HC who seems to be taking control of the team

    (4) has a solid front-7 with a run-stuffing monster (Knighton) in the middle
     
  27. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Do you live under a rock?
     
  28. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Matt ryan is 30. Since when is 30 considered old? Just stop it already. Youre embarrassing yourself in this thread. We are year four with Tannehill and we most likely wont make the playoffs this year, whos to say we will four years from now?
     
  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill is already 27. He's no spring chicken. Mattie's team was in a championship game when he turned 27. Let's see what the dolphins do.
     
  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    3. Tanny is 27 already.
     
  31. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Tannehill is a little more than 3 years younger than Matty average, last time I checked, in the NFL, that kind of matters. And yea keep clinging to that NFC championship game he played in and lost, means j*** s*** lol.
     
  32. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    I never said 30 is old, you did. I just said Tannehill is younger and a better fit for this team than even the great Matt Ryan would be for us right now. You may not agree with that, but try and be a little more accurate when bashing someone lol. Pretty sure 27 is still younger than 30, especially in this league.
     
  33. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    He's a Ginger supporter, I mean that's really all you need to know.
     
  34. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Yea because you know Rishard Matthews and Reshad Jones have really been making me look stupid this year lmfao. They're the only 2 guys on the team playing well. And boy was Irish wrong about Quesy too, except, he wasn't. And take away Koa and Jelani from this LB core, what do you have then? I know he made a ton of mistakes, but he also found us some excellent talent and was no where near the scapegoat he should have been made out to be. You're damn right I support him, just like Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis. And they have a ring, unlike Mat Ryan, that's really all you need to know.
     
  35. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    In the time since 2007


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  36. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Relax guys......it's obvious SuhMe is being hacked and punked. When he gets back to his computer and see what his neighbor did, we'll all get a good laugh.

    Back to the OP. Good analysis DolphinGreg!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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