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Billick on Suh..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-O, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Preview of a segment he is doing on Suh, said he believes he is doing his job eating up 2x teams and Wake and Vernon are losing one on one battles.

    Im not privy to the gametape, but despite being hurt I havent heard or seen much out of Wake or Vernon for that matter. Whats troubling is i thought they were the two guys who would benefit the most from that signing.

    Anxious to see what is happening.
     
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  2. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree.
     
  3. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I wish the reporter would have asked "How would you use Suh?"
     
  4. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Suh's playing well and doing what's been asked ask of him. The problem, IMO, is that what's being asked of him, is a pretty bad misuse of him as a player on Kevin Coyle's part. Wake's been playing hurt and OV has just been pretty bad so far this year.
     
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  5. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Suh is probably pretty disappointed with what is going on in Miami considering he is getting very little help on the defensive line. There is no pressure on the edges so opposing teams can double or triple team him at will and keep him from pressuring the quarterback up the middle. I just hope Suh's frustration just doesn't boil over during a game.
     
  6. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Personally, I think OV has lived on Wake being the focal attention, Wake is either hurt or just getting old, or more likely, a combination of both.

    DTs have different protections than DEs, there is usually a DT getting 2x on nearly every down, C and G on 1 DT, or the C helps whoever needs it and DEs get a T and a TE/FB/H-B/RB, so the idea that Suh was going to open things up for these guys is blown out of proportion.

    There is some effect, there are times that a team will put a G and T on a DE, but those are usually the big DEs, DE's that can play DT, but Wake and OV are not those guys so you don't see them(Wake) drawing that type of 2x, so this wasn't really going to help them.

    I watched a lot of Lions tape after we signed Suh, and watching game tape of Suh I saw that he was overrated, as pass rushers often are, most of his disruption came from bad gap responsibility, this is the "freelancing" we've heard about, he'll run outside his gap, or lane to get to the QB, but that leaves a gap/lane open, here in Miami they are asking him to be gap/lane responsible, and his athleticism=disruption is neutralized a lot.

    The thing is though, that the gap responsibility is a big deal in this D, the Lions surrounded Suh with a great D behind him so that he could "freelance" and they'd cover for him, because that's what it took to get the Lions D to be as good as it was last year, most years with Suh they had an avg to below avg D.

    This signing was bad in nearly every "football" sense;

    #1) No DT ever born is worth that money, period.

    #2) Suh is known for his pass rushing ability, but the Fins signed him to fix the run D.

    #3) Suh was a "freelancing" DT and this D NEEDS a gap responsible DTs.

    This signing did win us the offseason, and it sold A LOT of tickets, but it was a stupid football move on every level.

    Also, Suh is drawing a lot of 2x, but he is not eating them, they are eating him, to "eat" a 2x you have to hold your ground, if your getting moved then they are eating you.

    Suh is not winning 1 on 1's, he doesn't always get 2x, and when he doesn't he's still not winning because he is being gap responsible, the bottom line is that if he can't run outside the lane, he isn't that effective unless he's playing a bad player.
     
  7. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Ndamukong will be a HOFer. Not easy to acquire HOFers in fa, almost always have to use draft picks on them. Suh is the best player on this team, maybe he isn't going to be worth the enormous contract in the end that is up for debate. But the man, the player Ndamukong Suh, is a GREAT player and definitely the best player on our team. I'm glad he's here, especially with all the money we've been flushing down the toilet in FA for years now, like most teams (especially the Eagles) often do.
     
  8. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    All I can say is Vernon is picking THE worst possible time to go in the tank. He is literally costing himself MILLIONS!

    So since there is no single man on that line with more personally at stake than Vernon or more motivation to play well it takes me right back to coaching and players being misused in this defensive scheme.
     
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  9. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Not to say CK was right about Vernon, but CK was right about Vernon.
     
  10. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    lol!
     
  11. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Great post.
     
  12. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Suh isn't a HoFer, it's a tough row to hoe getting in as a DT, and he's not that close.

    He has decent sack numbers, avg tackle numbers and is not a turn over guy, only forcing 2 fumbles in his career so far, and he can't anchor at the point of attack.
     
  13. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I think OV is playing hurt. He made a tackle near the sidelines early in the Buffalo game and he looked like he could barely walk back to the huddle on that ankle.
     
  14. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Suh is going to be an anchor for this team, and I don't mean that in a good way, his contract will hurt the Fins.
     
  15. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    Both of them have been consistently bad at setting the edges, and they have gotten worse this year. They have killed us for three straight year, but the fans talk like they are good DEs. Wake was an excellent pass rush specialist. He has never been anything else.
     
  16. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    Suh is a significant positive asset for this team. There are other problems with the defense.
     
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  17. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    Bad coaching if they are letting him play hurt when he plays so poorly.
     
  18. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I don't think he's been playing much. I've seen Shelby and Fede in there quite a bit.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Well said.
     
  20. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    I think they are "good" but Wake is definitely getting long in the tooth. You're right though, fans have been over rating them. When your ends have 39 sacks in 2 years, and one is only 24 years old, it's tough not to get excited but you're right about lack of containment on the edge.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If Suh plays the way he played for the Lions for several more seasons, he's in the HoF. You get to the 7-9 Pro Bowl/All-Pro range as a DT you're in HoF company and Suh already has 4.
     
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  22. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    He's on that career trajectory, I guess Finster has been ignoring his incredible play at BOTH Nebraska and Detroit, I haven't. The contract is a debatable point as to whether or not it will net us positive results. But Suh is an elite talent, not recognizing that is just pure ignorance of football talent imho.
     
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  23. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    DT's don't get in on sack numbers or tackle numbers. HOF voters are smart enough to know that DTs don't often put up big numbers in those areas. If he has a bad second half of his career he might not get in but the first half of his career was HOF worthy. I don't think you know what you're talking about if you think he hasn't been a dominant player. He's been a top 2-3 defensive player in the league his entire career. Look at Detroit's defense right now, its garbage. If we are running a bad scheme for Suh then we should change it but I think your posts are really a bit too much chicken little.
     
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  24. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mr Suh. I hope you are spending your 114 mil well. I guess you are the african get rich quick prince scam everyone warns you about.
     
  25. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Yea boss, educate this man. Can't anchor at the point of attack, riiiight lol. Tannehill is garbage too, can't wait till Sunday morning.
     
  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Suh is getting a lot of flack simply because he recently received a huge contract from the Dolphins. Yet he isn't the problem on defense.
    Wake just isn't the same player he was just a few years ago. He battled injuries the latter part of the 2014 season and has been injured during the early part of this season. He is getting older and it is likely we have already seen his best years and he is now only an average DE in the NFL.

    Vernon started out great in 2013 and 2014, but in each of those seasons his play dropped off considerably over the second half of each of these seasons. So far this season, he just isn't playing any better than he did over the last half of the last season and he just isn't making any plays when he is in the game.

    The rest of the players on the DL provide no pass rush and are not effective against the run. So while Suh gets all the negative reviews, he is doing his job, while those around him on the DL are not getting the job done.

    With a below average LB Corp and a very suspect secondary beyond Grimes and Jones, there is no way Suh can be blamed for how bad this defense has played.

    While Coyle deserves much of the blame. The reality is that there just isn't nearly as much talent on the defensive side of the ball as many of us thought there was. What we thought would be one of the best defenses in the league has turned into one of the worst.
     
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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I chuckle when people act like they are more knowledgeable than the talent evaluators on actual NFL teams. There are a couple of guys on the forum with that sort of experience...but I don't think they've posted in this thread yet. Like some random forum warrior is seeing stuff in the film of Suh over his career that literally no NFL scout or evaluator had seen.
     
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  28. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    My concerns about possible declining play due to Wake's age and OV's "over-ratedness" have definitely been coming to fruition. Nobody else out there is making plays either. They can't bring Rashad Jones up more often because that would expose Aikens even more.
     
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  29. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Whats lost on that is with the CBs playing 7-10 yards off the LOS. Hard to get to the QB when you're giving up all those quick passes.
     
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  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    OK, show me a list of DTs that have got into the HoF since 2000, you'll find the list quite short.
     
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  31. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Coyle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The DB guru lol. We have to have the worst coaching staff in the league. Oh wait, someone hired Lovie Smith. 2nd worst.
     
  32. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    They have been playing that far off the receivers for years now.
     
  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Well, if it isn't the pot calling the kettle black Mr QB expert, so do you chuckle at yourself?

    Everything I'm saying about Suh is being backed up on the field, and by the way, I said Suh was overrated prior to the season starting, because I do know what I'm looking at when I watch tape, and I have no political agenda as many "experts" do.
     
  34. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Anyone who has been watching McCain or Taylor shouldn't be wondering why they're off the line, they're getting beat deep WITH that cushion, no way on earth do you want them playing press.
     
  35. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    It's worth considering, however, that the money Suh is making is preventing the team from improving those other areas of the defense.
     
  36. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats exactly why Suh got the contract he got. Those type's of DTs are possibly the hardest players to find. A HOF game changer up front on the dline is difficult to find and getting one is his prime as a free agent? Thats why he got a crazy contract.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Nope, wrong again. I don't claim to have seen some special thing in years of tape that no evaluator had ever seen, like you are claiming with Suh. I'm not talking about media guys on ESPN. I'm talking about guys with actual jobs in the NFL, making decisions on paying players, trades, etc. Ifor Suh was really overrated, like you claim, you'd hear whispers of that sneaking out.

    Regardless, it's funny that you are claiming to see this stuff. Take your resume and video watching skills to some NFL teams, and get paid, dude!
     
  38. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    LOL, show me where I'm wrong, obviously you haven't been watching the games, or you just have no idea what you're watching.
     
  39. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    wake is hurt, vernon has regressed. mitchell is ok. combine that with coyles defensive schemes and it's ugly.
     
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  40. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    People claiming, other people, shouldn't give their strong opinions about players simply because they don't get paid by the NFL, are so ignorant. Here is a news flash, just because you get paid to coach, evaluate, or talk about the NFL, doesn't prove you are any more knowledgeable then some random guy on this forum.

    Suh has been terrible thus far.
     
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