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Billick on Suh..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-O, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Nappy, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I have no problem with opinions, like, your opinion that Suh has been terrible. I have an issue with random people claiming that when they watch tape, they are seeing all these things that people doing this for a living don't see. Suh was most definitely not overrated. Overpaid? Probably. He was one of the most dominant players in the NFL, though, which is why he got a massive contact.

    Delusions of grandeur, man.
     
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  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    I hope it does. Right onto Tom Brady's collarbone

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  3. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I most definitely agree Suh was not overrated.

    I still scoff at the notion a guy is paid to watch film, so he knows more automatically. I live in a culture of a different sport where this is believed as well and it can't be further from the truth.

    I have a hard time believing football is any different.

    I haven't watched "tape" of Suh, I've watched and keened on him live. Getting double teamed and calling that doing your job is awful. It's down right terrible. We could of gotten plenty of players to get double teamed and do absolutely nothing out of them. Suh had tons of attention in Detroit, and it didn't matter.

    His motor and his jumped off the line is completely different then his Detroit self. I can't tell you why that is, nor do I really care. But what I can tell you is, any one person, that watches "tape" of Suh so far in Miami, and claims that he has done his job and earned his keep, either is delusional, didn't watch much tape of him this year, or doesn't understand what is expected of Suh.


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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not talking about this year, though. I'm talking about a guy who claims to have watched tape of Suh's other seasons, and claims to have seen evidence throughout that says he is overrated.

    He's saying he is seeing stuff in there that literally no one else had seen. If he's that good, he should get paid to do it. You can scoff at that idea, but there is a very real reason that we are all playing armchair quarterback, and not being paid by franchises worth hundreds of millions of dollars to analyze tape.
     
  5. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Just don't agree that those "very real reasons" automatically is those being paid millions know more about the game.




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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, it's not a guarantee that those who are paid more know more...but in a job like scouting, it's not normal that a dude watching NFL Rewind is going to be seeing stuff the scouts aren't seeing. However, if he is that good, he should definitely be contacting teams for a job. I know I would be.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ive been looking closely at cameron, I think he thought it was a good idea to add an extra 10 lbs for the season, it might be slowing him down a bit.
     
  8. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    As we all know, being a HOFer isn't always about the numbers. It's also a popularity contest. He is a popular player, and whether or not he continues to play at a high level, I do believe he may have begun to pave his way to Canton. A couple of more years of solid play and I think he is in. Sometimes, it pays to be popular, and he is certainly that.
     
  9. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Wake is continuing the streak he started last year of impressive disappearing acts. Only this year, nobody can claim he's being double teamed...
     
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  10. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    He is still being held, though.
     
  11. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The HoF is the 1 place where popularity doesn't hold a lot of water, and numbers mean a lot, and certain positions don't get as many players, there are 13 DTs in the HoF, that's it, out of all the great DTs there have been, only 13 have made the hall.

    You have to be very impressive to make the HoF, many great players never get in.
     
  12. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for pointing that out. Seems like Wake is a made man, totally above criticism.
     
  13. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    Weston
    So is half the league.
     
  14. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    You also have to be very impressive to get the biggest contract a defensive player has ever gotten. Which is exactly what Suh was in Detroit. This guy easily could have gone 1 overall (should of...Bradford sucks) because he was so dominant at Nebraska, then after entering the NFL, he has only surpassed expectations. Similar to Lebron James, they just play different sports and have different body types. Suh would be the first to tell you his play hasn't been particularly stellar these first 3 games, but based on his history I'm not too worried like Tom Brady after the Chefs game last year. And he's 38, Suh's 28.
     
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  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    And there in lies the issue. You can contact teams for jobs all you want, but unless you're in the buddy system, you aren't getting a job.

    They don't just hire you because you watched film and think you know more then their scouts or GM(even if you truly do)


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  16. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Yea I interned for my college team, I learned that coaching football is a total good ol boys club. If you don't know anyone or played at the level you're trying to coach at, no one is going to give a s*** about what you think you know or even how you can help the team.
     
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  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I am in favor of more press coverage regardless of the DB's.
     
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    It's that way across all sports to be honest. It's a shame.


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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Suh is an interesting cat, possibly motivated by things we dont understand, maybe he needs inspiration or a connection to someone of leadership to play intense..
     
  20. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    If so, that's not the sort of guy I'd spend that money on.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really have no idea, all kinds of things going thru my head.
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    OV caught a chop block to the knee courtesy of the redskins, he has not healed.

    Wake was nearly a scratch v Jax, suspect he is dinged as well, the Redskins cut blocking the hell out of the DL is still lingering
     
  23. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. But again, I'm going to disagree with your argument that being a popular player doesn't "hold a lot of water".

    So we agree on great players not making it in. You are pointing to statistics with regard to Suh, correct? There are players in the HOF with sub-par stats with regard to position played. And if it isn't a popularity contest, how does one Joe Namath get in with a 176-220 TD/INT ratio and a paltry 50% completion percentage? Sure, he had a hell of an arm, and the way the game was played back then was certainly different, but what did he have over other QBs with similar careers (INCLUDING Championships)? Popularity.

    In saying that there are many great players who do not make it to Canton, you could also say that there are some who are in there who maybe do not deserve it.

    Richard Dent recently made it. The ONLY thing he has over Miami's own Jason Taylor is a ring (he technically has two, but he was mostly injured when with the Niners). And that '84 Bears defense was arguably one of the best of all-time. My point with Jason Taylor is that he, alone, has changed the outcome of games. But the common sentiment regarding a HOF nod with Taylor is that he doesn't have a ring. It's a team game, but individuality sometimes seems second when it comes to championships. Compare JT's numbers to Dent's and show me something discernable other than a championship which separates the two?

    I believe popularity (especially recently) plays a role. It makes zero sense to say many great players do not get in without acknowledging that those great players may not be as popular as those with similar or lesser individual statistics from players who are.

    The championship thing I totally get. I really do. But does ONE championship really change the fact Dent and Taylor's numbers nearly mirror in every statistical category, especially considering Dent was part of an all-time great defense? Apparently it does. Even though I am a Dolphins fan, I remember Richard Dent as a kid before I even knew anything about football. He was a popular player.

    If you disagree, fine. But if you think that popularity doesn't play some role in the HOF process, there is some naivete on your part. It not only plays a role in in HOF voting process, but it also applies to many other arenas outside of the HOF (from the local sheriff, to the congressman, etc.). The best do not always get in. In fact, now that I think about it, the HOF vote is just one big popularity contest at it's finest, by definition!
     
  24. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sounds like Philbin..............um..............not so much.
     
  25. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Well I have to disagree, especially with the (especially now) part, it has become very difficult to get into the HoF, and the complaint now is that it's getting too difficult.

    Dent was a dominant DE for a decade, in a 9 year span from 84 to 93 he posted 121 sacks and 630 tackles, with 33 FF, those are stellar numbers, he was regarded as the best defender on one of the historically great Ds, and was a SB MVP, and he had to wait 8 years to get in, despite popularity.

    Chris Carter had to wait, and he's one of the most prolific WRs in NFL history, and wildly popular.

    Tony Siragusa was a very good DT for a lot of years, and there has never been a more popular DT, except maybe for the Fridge, but neither of these guys are even considered for the HoF.

    Namath got in in another era, QBs from later eras can't be compared, and aren't, you are compared to your contemporary's, and he got in for being David who slew Goliath, and predicting it boldly, when the bar was much lower, QBs from this era will have to be ridiculously prolific to get in, no matter how popular.

    I can't see much at all to look at to say that there is any popularity involved in their decision making process, especially now, it has become very difficult to gain the HoF now and only prolific stats will get you there, Suh is a pass rushing DT, so it's those stats that will get him in, he's not Ngata or Wilfork, who are space eaters, they get a pass with stats to a point, but Suh will not, because he's a pass rusher, and his stats are no where near where they need to be for HoF consideration.

    Suh will be judged against Randle, that is the player he most resembles, and he has set the standard to be judged against, in Randle's first 5 years at DT he posted 59 sacks and 11 FFs, these are numbers that Suh may never reach in his career, that is how far behind he is, he has 36 sacks and 2 FFs in his 6th year, Randle ended up with 137.5 sacks and 29 FFs, you don't have to get to Randle's numbers, but he will have to get pretty close, and he's never going to do that.
     

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