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Who is to blame if you cant score from 5 yards away with 8 downs?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by yoge, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    This exactly!

    No QB in the league would be able to play consistently good with this haphazard o-line. It is so infuriating to know that we have good WR's, good RB's, and a good QB, but we can't do anything because there is NEVER any blocking.

    Now, saying that I also think the coaches, at least Philbin, needs to go. He's lost this team.
     
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  2. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Tanne's faults are being exacerbated by the bad Oline play, pocket awareness, accuracy, ability to think under duress, he's a decent QB as long as the rest of the team performs well, he's an upper tier 3 QB and I'm not sure that will change.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    There has been several great arguments against Tannehill, but they're met mostly with blind optimism and flaming. So the nay-sayers mostly remain quiet.

    But honestly, I agree with almost everyone here- it's impossible not to blame Philbin, Coyle and Lazor for the vast majority of the problems. The defense did step up some in the second half, surprisingly with Grimes off the field, which tells me that a youth movement would not be a bad thing at this point. Get the folks on the field who want to play and let them make some plays.

    On offense, the problems are literally everywhere. And as much as we all love Landry, putting the ball in his hands every single down is a recipe for disaster. We can't beat anyone on screen passes and that's what this offense has become. When your top passes of the day all came from pass interference (and two of the three were clearly uncatchable), that's a big problem.

    The line also did better in the 2nd half though, and those of you blindly saying Tannehill is the guy are lying to yourself. He missed on throws over and over and over again this week, despite us dominating field position in the 2nd half and controlling the tempo. Honestly folks, we left 28+ points on the field in the 2nd half alone all from Tannehill's misses, and at some point you have to start admitting that he's getting a lot more chances than you're letting on. To defend Tannehill, teams have to cut off the short routes and it's game over. We have deep threats 1:1 all day long because of it, and the only way teams will play us differently is if Tannehill starts connecting. We have 50+ games to tell us that it won't happen though, which means he's out there getting slaughtered for nothing. I think everyone here likes Tannehill and wants to see him succeed, but it is literally impossible at this point in this offense.

    Make no mistake though, Lazor didn't overthrow a dozen receivers today on easy TD's. We were BLESSED with three flags that made things seems a little better than it really was, but those passes were sailing and not going to be caught. Pressure or no pressure, that's 100% on your quarterback's shoulders for (1) not being able to make the proper reads quick enough (2) for being inaccurate and (3) for not having the trust of the coaching staff to make something happen. And for the record, I'm not talking about the plays where defenders rushed in untouched....Tannehill had over 25 throws today with a clean pocket. Unfortunately though, several of them were screens to Landry, dump-off passes or deep incomplete...which is exactly what our opponents game-plan for. Plain and simple, he's just not accurate enough.

    But let's give him the benefit of the doubt. You play head coach- how do you win with Tannehill? He's a 36% career passer on anything over 20 yards, and the defense is playing a short zone each week smothering up all the short stuff. They're also blitzing on every down because Miami can't go deep, and those blitzes make it a lot harder for us to run the football through the gaps as well. So with Tannehill on the field, we can't run, we can't throw short and we can't throw deep.

    And don't give us, "Well it's because of the coach and the line." That's a big part of the problem, sure. But it is what it is and we still need to compete for 12 games despite those issues. So you tell me- how exactly do we win with Ryan Tannehill with this team and this offense? Because if you don't have a legitimate answer, then Tannehill can't be the guy.

    Or let me ask it a different way. Pull Tannehill off the field and insert Dan Marino in his 5th year as a pro. Against that defense today, does Marino throw 2 TD's and 2 picks? We can't say because they'd play Marino completely different. They wouldn't blitz as much because Dan is the Man reading the field and finding the open target quickly, and he has a knack for making adjustments and exploiting the deep throws when teams cheat up on him.

    Tannehill simply isn't the guy folks. He's tough. He's a competitor. He's resilient and a dozen other things. But he's not accurate on intermediate throws and we're far too one-dimensional with him on the field. Insert an accurate passer though, and everything changes because the defense is kept honest. I can't understand how others can't see that other than they just don't want to see it.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The answer is, you fix the biggest problems, and get them to be average, at least. If then Tannehill still is struggling, you replace him, too.
     
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  5. jcs92593

    jcs92593 Banned

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    25 clean pockets??? more like 4.

    The line is legendarily bad. Not a single QB in the NFL would succeed with this nightmare set up.

    But those of you who have made up your minds will ignore this.

    So what's the point?
     
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  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for proving my point....the only possible way you can defend Tannehill is to point fingers at others. Because there's not a single positive thing you can say about how he COULD HAVE led us to victory today. But you insert a solid QB on those four plays you mentioned and it's 4 TD passes with the wide open man down the sidelines.

    But watch the film again and start counting. He threw 44 passes and a heck of a lot more than 4 were clean pockets. The 2nd half protection was decent, yet his production actually dropped.
     
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  7. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Last year Tom Brady was a 28% passer on anything over 20 yards. And since 2009 Brady has been at 37%.


    If you really want to get down to it you could look at "air yards". Meaning how many yards did the QB actually throw the ball without adding the YAC.

    64% of RT's yards last season came from the ball being in the air.

    To compare:

    Brady: 49%
    Rodgers: 50%
    Manning: 63%
    Luck: 59%
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    And you think Tannehill's receivers getting less yards after the catch mean that he's more accurate than the others? Come on guys, a blind man could see through that warped logic.

    Tannehill's "longest" TD pass of the year in 2014 was 50 yards...which ranks 42nd among active passers right behind Mohamed Sanu....a WR who threw 3 total passes in Cinci last season. Yes, a wide receiver did in three attempts what Tannehill managed to do only once the entire season. Every other starting NFL quarterback (and 9 backups) did better, but somehow none of this is on Tannehill? Ever? Come on guys.
     
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  9. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Yep...the oline would cause even Aaron Rodgers to continually throw passes that give his wr no chance to make a play:shifty:. On 4th down no less. Common sense should tell you tannehill and the offensive line are a problem along with the playcalling. It'd not one or the other. Tannehill is PART of the problem. It's nobody's fault but his own when he misses an open receiver. Assuming he had a reasonable amount to time to throw, which isn't always the case but I don't hold those plays against him. Some of you clowns don't hold ANYTHING against him. It's all someone else's fault. 4 yrs of this excuse making ****.
     
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  10. jcs92593

    jcs92593 Banned

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    I will try one time. If you don't get this, I can't help you.

    44 passes is IDIOTIC play calling. 6 runs. Now tell me, is that a balanced offense??? No. So the defense KNOWS you are going to pass, running isn't even an option. So they can blitz corners every play with no fear. Now, couple this with a line that can't block anybody, and tell me how a QB is going to be able to take his drop, go through his reads and find the open WR and deliver the ball. With less than 2-3 seconds??? Can't be done.

    I'm not saying he is elite, but he is damn good. The line is abhorrent. I just want them to be average and we are fine. They are well below that. He ran for his life all game. The TD to Stoneburner was a great pass, off his back foot, he couldn't step into the throw since there was a defender already at his legs. And the pass when he stepped out of the sack and hit Landry was great too. Both plays saw a defender in the backfield in less than 2 seconds. And yes. I timed the plays.

    But keep blaming the QB it's easier!
     
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  11. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should watch how Andrew Luck played vs the Jets two weeks ago. Or do you think Luck is a bad QB also?
     
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  12. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I'm saying that you think RT is horrible at long throws and that's the cause for the offensive woes. I'm showing you that this is not the case.
     
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  13. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a link for your 64% air yards on Tannehill and others?
     
  14. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    The reason RT misses so many long throws is because he's not allotted the amount of time needed to allow his WR to get to the spot on the field he's throwing to.

    Basic Football 101.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so you named his two BEST passes of the entire day. Two down, forty-two to go. That's not an argument, my friend. And I'm saying that because I'm not the enemy here....I love Tannehill and the Fins as much as anyone. But you can't take the good, ignore the bad and blame everything else on the line and the coach. We've done that for five seasons now and eventually, the quarterback has to be accountable.
     
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  16. jcs92593

    jcs92593 Banned

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    Watching the Colts. Their line is a lot better than ours. Hasselbeck has had a clean pocket most of the game. And they are opening holes for Gore.
     
  17. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Philbin is. He refuses to employ a FB and refuses to run a power game. The O line is expensive and still sucks. Everything starts with Queasy.
     
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  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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  19. jcs92593

    jcs92593 Banned

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    I'm not saying the QB is blame free, maybe 10-15% is on him. The rest is on the line and play calling. Get them average, he will shine. He has showed it plenty of games that when the line blocks, he can make plays.

    But blaming him for today just shows an agenda against him. He had no time all game.
     
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  20. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Naaa. He throws uncatchable balls out of bounds all the time. Always has regardless of his time.
     
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  21. jcs92593

    jcs92593 Banned

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    Bingo! School is out.

    It takes the fastest WRs more than 4 seconds to run 40 yards. If the pocket is compromised in less than 2, how can you expect the pass to be completed? Answer is...you can't.

    It just doesn't seem it should be so hard to understand. But that's public school education for ya!
     
  22. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    As do all QB's. RT is above average on long passes even though his line sucks.
     
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  23. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that it requires less time to over-throw a receiver than it does to throw to where they actually can catch it? Because if so, you should be a physics professor at Harvard...the universe obviously works differently than we've assumed all these years.

    But let's say you're right. Out of almost 2,000 passes for his entire career, Tannehill has hit a streaking receiver deep less than a dozen times. And if you take away the TE throws over the middle, we're down to just 2 or 3 completions out of 150+ attempts. The math still doesn't work unless we go with the alternate universe theory.
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Which was 1% less than Brady, but 1% better than Rodgers.
     
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  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    You're right. I was looking at this season. He's at 64% this season.
     
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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He was still basically even with Rodgers and Brady.
     
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  28. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You don't understand what's going on here, huh? And if I were you I wouldn't be bringing up physics. lol

    Edit: and just keep ignoring the numbers i've provided. I realize that they mess up your opinion in whatever universe you're living in. haha
     
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  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    How can you possibly think that when he missed 5+ TD passes? Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude...I'm just trying to understand. We had 8 downs inside the 5 yard line and he missed 7 times. He went deep 9 times and was 0-6 (plus the three interference). he missed and missed and missed.

    That's not me having an agenda....if he completes even one of those sixteen tosses, it's a 6 point game. If he completes 2 of 16, we win. You just don't want to see it that way even though it's plainly clear.
     
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  30. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    For those who are unfamiliar with the QB position. Pressure has both primary and secondary/cumulative affects. When a guy like Tannehill is being pressured consistently it impacts him even on plays when there is no pressure bc there's no pre snap read for whether the QB is gonna have a free runner hit him in his frigging chin strap.

    It's like tip toeing thru a mine field with some jack *** saying "walk normally, there aren't mines on every inch of ground", from the safety of his couch.
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so you got another flame out...good for you. Now would you care to explain how it takes more time to throw the ball 3-8 yards less? or should we just call BS and move on?
     
  32. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think you have to blame whoever is responsible for putting this OL together. You can't run the ball. Which means defenses aren't going to be fooled by PA passes. Now the defense knows what's coming and can blitz at will. Let's face it, theres a reason the Jets set a record for most DB blitzes today. It's because they knew it was low risk against this offense.
     
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  33. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    You do realize that the WR he's throwing to is actually, on most plays, a spot on the field, right? I don't think you know this.
     
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  34. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    No, because that's not what is going on. See my last post.
     
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  35. jcs92593

    jcs92593 Banned

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    First, go back and watch the plays. They are throwing fades to Greg Jennings! Are you kidding???? He is not a big, physical WR who can go up and get it. They tried 2 to him. Both of which landed in the endzone. I guarantee Parker could have caught at least one of those. Jennings is not that type of WR. Then there was a TD that was called back. BS Offensive PI. He threw for a TD. The ref saw it different.

    More of the problem is our play calling is amateurish. If Tannehill is not good at fade routes, WHY CALL THEM????

    But you have made up your mind. So that's that.
     
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  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    People refuse to understand the basic concept of the timing offense, and just keep repeating the incorrect narrative that Tannehill is inaccurate and lacks touch.
     
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  37. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Only if you are comparing the % and not looking at the big picture.

    On average, per completion this is how far the pass was completed beyond the line of scrimmage:

    Manning = 6.86
    Luck = 6.57
    Rogers = 6.42
    Brady = 5.79
    Tannehill = 5.33
     
  38. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    This I agree with 100%. I can still remember back in 2012, Mike Sherman telling reporters he has to squabble with Philbin about how important it is to stick w a run game. That's the last season Miami had a FB (Lane) or blocking TE (Fasano).

    Now there s no FB or blocking TE, without Sims. People wanna know why Lazor doesn't call more runs, stick to the ground game, give it to Miller inside the red zone, there's the answer.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So Brady was a whole 1.5 feet farther on average per throw than Tannehill?

    Amazing.
     
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  40. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    Above average on long passes??????? What have you been watching the last few years? And don't throw some meaningless stats out. Some of you are amazing.
     
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