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Mel Kiper bashes Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by yoge, Oct 8, 2015.

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  1. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You had an argument until you said Tannehill is a top 10 QB. Care to share your list? Literally no QBR or Passer Rating chart backs up your claim. Not even if you maximize how bad our supporting cast is and minimize how bad others are.


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  2. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I don't go by numbers. I go by skill set. Sure ill put it up tonight top 40 by tier
     
  3. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I don't go solely by QBR or Passer Rating either, otherwise Romo would've been considered the best QB last year. Accomplishments, supporting cast and skill set are all factors as well. I still don't see how Tannehill sniffs the top 10.


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  4. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Let's just say for the sake of argument that Tannehill is "top ten." If he is, then he's still in the bottom of the top ten (i.e., #9 or 10), and that isn't good enough. Hell the number 10 guy is worse than nearly a third of the league's QBs. "Top 10" sucks if you're 10th.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the thing thats been impressive about Dalton is his mechanics under pressure and how quickly he is getting those mechanics in position, even under pressure he is setting his feet, transferring his weight and following thru with a lighting like release....

    when he was in college and the reason I had him rated pretty high was that I thought with how quick he qb'd the position, mechanics wise, and just his decision making, he will be successful...it seems as though it took him a few years to master the position, catch up to the game speed, and now hes able to display that body quickness now..he also is very good manipulating the pocket and knows how to threaten with his legs.
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wilson has a different skill set, ie, lateral agility, and a coordinator who rolls him out consistently.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Literally one of the dumbest posts I've seen yet. And that says alot.
     
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The fact remains, he had a terrible line in 2013 with 4 starters missing time
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Anyone who calls Ryan top 10 is doing so based on "hope". Thats okay btw, just express it.


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  10. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Everyone has a unique skill set. It's a lot more than just "lateral agility" that makes Russell Wilson such an attribute to his team. I've seen him escape pressure and throw some beautiful touch passes that Tannehill doesn't seem capable of making for whatever reason but that's beside the point.

    No matter how you or anyone else wants to quantify what other guys bring to the table, the question when it comes to Tannehill is, what does he bring? I can understand having a balanced view of Tannehill but I can't fathom what would make someone want to continuously stand in the face of Tannehill's critics when Tannehill is doing very little to build himself much of a case.

    This is professional football where the QB touches the ball on every play and opposing defenses shape their game plans around what the QB can and can't do to beat them. Team generally go as far as their QBs allow except in the case of great defenses.

    I'm not really sure what Ryan Tannehill brings to the table that's going to make him a huge asset and that's the problem. If he's athletic he doesn't really show it. If he's a great passer we've yet to see that from him in his 52 games here even when he's had a clean pocket in which to work. His best games are generally in the neighborhood of what Andy Dalton just did while going up against a very good Seattle Seahawks defense for instance. So even when everything goes well for Tannehill, he's still not an exceptional QB. That might be problem.

    At the end of the day, maybe you can defend him against unwarranted criticism but you can't do anything against the warranted, logical arguments which highlight the fact Tannehill has a long way to go and may ultimately be insufficient.
     
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  11. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I must say...Lazor is really handicapping Ryan if he is'nt affording him the oppurtunity to check out of plays based on what he see's.

    Im sure he knows he has less than 3 sec to pass the ball, ecspecially on a blitz....why not let him check out of that 3rd and 12 playaction Bill thought made sense?? I watched David Carr change plays at the LOS. Wtf is really up with that?


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  12. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Common sense answer is Lazor doesn't trust him.
     
  13. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Not true. He doesn't have alot of games where he had pass protection but in those few games last year where the line did a good job he ripped it up. Easily top ten performances
     
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  14. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Or perhaps he's saving the Dolphins from an even worse fate. Do we know?
     
  15. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    And the way the game is played in this day and age, it is a problem, and it's what I meant above by how being 10th in the league isn't good. You can't have the most important player on the field by a longshot be better than only two-thirds of his counterparts and expect to be highly competitive in the league. The teams with the five best QBs stand a much greater chance of being highly competitive year in, year out than the team with the tenth-best QB.

    And that premise starts here with the idea that Ryan Tannehill is the tenth-best (or better) QB in the league, which as we see here is highly debatable.
     
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  16. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    We do have some insight into the checking in and out of plays by Tannehill. I believe it was the Dallas preseason game last year where the building was up in arms that he checking into the wrong play every single time. I mean, I don't know how you expect someone to improve on something they don't practice, but he has failed at it when given the opportunity. Maybe they practice it and he consistently fails.
     
  17. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Oh I see...





    Still not a top 10 QB.


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  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Hope this is isn't true...if so and we gave him 100M for what?? Throwing comebacks and checking down?

    Fml


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  19. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    It's hardly unique... Jimmy took the audible away from Danny back in the day, and Todd Haley got into with Kurt Warner in the 08 NFC Championship game for changing plays at the LOS away from what Haley called. Haley also had a spat with Big Ben over audibles his first season in PB. In some cases, the coaches don't trust the QB, in other cases the OC is something of a dictator. Lazor has a reputation as a hardass. The WRs from last season complained about his persona and "coaching style".

    People read into things what they want to. I agree with Fin-O though. Lazor is doing Tannehill a disservice.
     
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  20. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    It'll be interesting to see whether Dan Campbell, a man who seems to have his finger on the pulse of all areas of the team good and bad, and who just supplied Lazor with a more experienced consultant, makes any change in that area.
     
  21. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Is it Lazor or Philbin, or is it that Tanne cannot be trusted though, because this is the second OC that wouldn't let him change plays, same HC, so he could possibly be the problem, but watching Mariotta and Taylor changing plays at the line yesterday really makes you wonder just what in the world is going on with Tanne.
     
  22. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    The fact that Tannehill looks no different than he did at the beginning of last year in terms of his command of the position suggests the coaches are doing him a favor. The more likely explanation is that a QB who has difficulty reading and reacting to what's going on after the ball is snapped also has difficulty reading and reacting to what's going on before the ball is snapped.
     
  23. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Just based on assumption, I would have to agree.
     
  24. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Look at Phillip Rivers. He's playing with spare parts along the O-line and yet he:

    - Has the 6th highest QB Rating
    - Averages 8.9 yards an attempt
    - Sacked more than Tannehill (12)

    Some QB's are built to handle the pressure and can consistently navigate/anticipate in the pocket. When I watch Tannehill I feel like he's just out there running plays.
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Something has to give, we cant keep letting the slow developing plays get called when you have a bad OL. It's ridiculous.

    I would love to have THAT inside information because it is crucial to our offense.

    Also, who is calling out the blocking assignments? Pouncey? And is it the missed calls or the lack of execution? So many unknowns, but what is for sure is this offense is not good.


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  26. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I'm wondering where this is coming from... A quick Google search showed a link to an Omar report: http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/12/09/omar-kelly-ryan-tannehill-cant-audible-miami-dolphins/

    And another to something Darlington said.

    But there is also this clip disputing that from Bill Lazor:

    That was from last season. Did Lazor take this away this year, or is it that the pass pro is truly that horrid, or is Lazor lying?
     
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  27. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Agree on all accounts. I think it's a combo of all of those things.
     
  28. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Rivers is also a 12 year veteran, and has literally has 3x the experience of Tannehill. That's hardly an apples-to-apples comparison.
     
  29. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's true so the question would be, how much experience is needed to overcome insufficient surroundings?

    Not sure how good or bad Rivers' lines were at the time but after a couple years on the bench, it took a couple more seasons as the starter for Rivers to get the hang of things. His 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons as the starter were when he starting posting QB ratings over 100. Prior to that he had a couple pretty unspectacular years.

    I would think Tannehill would need to start showing some ability to overcome this year or next.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, Bill Lazor disagrees with posters on here about Tannehill reading and reacting.

    Strange.
     
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  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lazor is not lying. This was discussed extensively in the other area, specifically the built in part Lazor openly discusses here. Tannehill is given many options at the line. So a lot of the *****ing about Lazor's playcalls, may actually land at the feet of Tannehill when you think about it.

    There have been grumblings about the choices Tanny makes of the options he's given.
     
  32. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    There is an implicit philosophy in that statement that could be incorrect, however, in that what Tannehill is thought to need to "overcome" could in fact be due to Tannehill. Again, when you show deficiencies in 1) evading pressure, and 2) being accurate downfield, defenses can adjust to those deficiencies and take away other elements of the offense, leaving it that much harder for you to excel at what you are good at (the shorter passing game). You could in fact have an offense that appears to have glaring deficiencies simply because its quarterback struggles in two major areas involved in playing the position.

    Remember folks, the quarterback isn't just affected by what's going on around him. He also has an effect on what's going on around him. That relationship is bidirectional.
     
  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Which is why I hate when adjusters automatically claim quarterback "X" would suffer the same fate in this offense.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I mentioned a few times last year, with Satele in at center (before Albert went down) when the oline was playing average and our offense was humming along, that the problem with Pouncey at center might be line calls.

    It was ignored.
     
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  35. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    From what I've heard, IIRC, Ryan has what's called a soft audible. He could check to a running play from a passing play and vice versa. Each play has a built in running or passing play.


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  36. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Interesting article... and I agree with it.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...ill-is-a-bottom-5-qb-in-pff-grades-right-now/


    And while mentioning drops, Jennings is also on the list of worst FA signings...

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/07/10-worst-free-agent-signings-though-week-4/

     
  37. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    pfft what would he know? we have much more knowledgeable posters in this thread
     
  38. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    the way I grade, the order within a tier really doesnt matter. its fluid and can change from month to month. Its the tiers that matter. My tiers are smaller than the previous list so to correlate they would be 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 etc

    TIER 1 (Have the complete package)
    AARON RODGERS
    TOM BRADY
    BEN ROETHSLISBERGER

    TIER 2 (All the skills but bad luck)
    PHILLIP RIVERS
    TONY ROMO

    TIER 3 (When they’re hot they’re hot)

    CARSON PALMER
    ELI MANNING

    TIER 4 (Old farts and young guns)
    PEYTON MANNING
    MATT RYAN
    RYAN TANNEHILL
    ANDREW LUCK
    CAM NEWTON
    DREW BREES (if you give him all the tools he's tier 2, without them he cant do anything)

    TIER 5 (Last stop on the train that can take you to the Super Bowl but it better be a tricked out train)
    ANDY DALTON
    JOE FLACCO
    RUSSELL WILSON (After this year (27 is the peak year for RBs) he should decline into Michael Vick by age 30
    MATT STAFFORD
    BLAKE BORTLES (projecting where he’ll be next year)
    MARCUS MARIOTTA (projecting where he’ll be next year)

    TIER 6
    ALEX SMITH
    SAM BRADFORD
    DEREK CARR (might deserve tier 5 have to see more)
    TERRY BRIDGEWATER (same as Carr)
    JAY CUTLER
    MATT HASSELBECK
    JOSH MCCOWN
    BRIAN HOYER
    KIRK COUSINS
    NICK FOLES
    JAMEIS WINSTON
    BROCK OSWEILLER (looked good in preseason the last couple of years lol)
    BRANDON WEEDEN
    RYAN FITZPATRICK
     
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  39. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Put the pipe down. :up:
     
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  40. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    but it is shocking the difference. Rivers is a stud and showed it last night. Tannehil..............well......is Tannehill.

    I'd take that kind of game any day. They were ultra competitive and had a chance. I would hate to loose but geez, they are a good football team
     
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