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New Coach Conundrum

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Please go back and read the OP. I'm not predicting anything. I'm not digging for anything. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. I'm not saying we will win more than even 1 game.
     
  2. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    But that's excatly what I'm saying. Last season we thought Philbin was a bad coach but had no idea things would turn out like this. Maybe there are some other things that we don't know yet that are hindering this team besides Philbin and Coyle. You are assuming Philbin and Coyle are the only problems but we can't know that for sure, just like we couldn't know that the team would turn out to be as bad as it did this season.
     
  3. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I expect them to play better, but they've got a nice size hole to climb out of.

    It's not just the 1-3 record, with 3 conference losses and 2 division losses at home. It's how bad this team has played. The team Campbell is taking over has been in a steady decline since late last season, even with Suh on the roster now. IMO, if changes weren't made this team might have been headed for a top-5 2016 Draft pick. They've been that bad.

    How much better they play remains to be seen. It's not just the subtraction of Philbin and Coyle. Wake, Vernon and Mitchell need to play much better. Albert needs to be relatively healthy and playing well. I expect those things should happen. But it can also be argued that there's still no answer at guard and that the position may be worse than last year. The secondary has also been very problematic outside of Grimes and Jones. Sheppard at MLB has been pretty awful as well.

    If Campbell can get most of these guys to turn it up a few notches then this team could resemble the team we all thought we had. But then, as others have pointed out, you also have question marks with an inexperienced coaching staff.

    The potential is there. But personally I wouldn't go wagering money on it.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Please read this carefully...

    I simply don't understand. I do not understand how the people that have claimed Philbin has been our problem all this time, still think we'll be a worse team AFTER he's gone. That's it. Its not complicated. I'm not making any declaration about who or what our problem is. I simply do not understand that line of thinking.

    The only legit answer I got is that some of those people may think that Campbell and Co. are actually worse than Philbin & Coyle. Which is fine, I dunno if they are or aren't, I just don't understand the line of thinking if its not that.
     
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  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Fin, I think it's a case of 'show me' don't tell me... We (all fins fans) have been dumped on since JJ left and many are plain tired of everything...

    I wanted those two gone also, in fact, I wanted Coyle gone moreso than Queasy... But I'm still in the 'show me' mode...I'm very apprehensive that Campbell can be successful on the short term... When has an interim guy done very well...would most fin fans be satisfied with 8-8 again ?? It's still gonna be a long season...but there is more hope than a week ago...
     
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  6. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'll answer it this way, Miami's got a better chance of going 5-11 or 6-10 with Dan Campbell at the helm than they would have had with Philbin & Coyle still on staff. Most people who were like me, predicting a record of 8-8 or 9-7, were operating under the assumption that Miami could stack up a lot of wins in the first 6 games before the schedule gets really rough. That didn't happen. It's not realistic to expect Miami to get to 8-8 at this point regardless if it's Philbin or Campbell at the helm. I don't think it'll be the continuation of the absolute cluster**** of football we saw in weeks 1-4 under Campbell though. Philbin had no idea what to do to solve the issues that plague the team; Campbell certainly sounds like he's got a decent idea just based off his pressers.

    Moving forward though, big picture, removing Philbin and Coyle was an absolute necessity. It should have been done after the 2013 collapse, IMO. It definitely should have been done after last year's bungling finish.
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I understand, show me don't tell me. I understand being cautious. I don't understand, 3-13 predictions if the person was one that spent 3 years complaining about Philbin.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Thank you, that makes more sense then some of the other stuff that's been put out there.
     
  9. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so you're saying there are people who think Philbin and Coyle were the only problems and these people still don't think we'll get better, even after we fired them?

    I can't speak for these people but as for me, I think we will get better overall but most of the damage has been made, IMO. We've dug ourselves in a pretty deep hole to start the season.

    Campbell will be better at some aspects of coaching, but maybe he'll be worse at others, it's simply not possible to know right now. We'll have a better idea after the Titans game.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes, that's what I'm saying.
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You've said at least a dozen times here that you want to see other people's viewpoints, yet you keep attacking people that do not agree with you. That's not doing anything but starting arguments for the sake of arguing.

    It's possible that people didn't like Philbin AND they don't think we'll have a good season. The two are not tied together in any way, and it is extremely hard for any interim coach to turn things around since you can't install new schemes mid-season. So it's not going to be a magical change overnight where we go from being the 29th in overall offense/defense to one of the best around...nobody with any common sense would expect that.

    Can we still salvage the season? Of course. People just don't expect it to happen since we've been average for so long now. I personally do think we will have a pretty good year under Campbell but I also understand why others would be hesitant. But more importantly, I can also respect their viewpoints without attacking them...that's how this forum is supposed to work.
     
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  12. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
  13. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    While I never thought Philbin was qualified to be an NFL head coach, I also think many of us, including me, overrated the talent level on this team going into the season.

    The OL was not upgraded from last year and we are seeing the same issues we have seen with this unit for the past several years.

    Tannehill has regressed this season with what is suppose to be a better receiving group than he had last season. He hasn't had a good OL since he has been with the Dolphins, yet he had progressed each of the past three years with bad OL play, but not so far this year.

    On defense, I think we have a below average LB Corp and only Jones and Grimes are reliable in the secondary. It was thought that adding Suh to what was considered a very good DL before the season would cover the weaknesses at LB and in the secondary.

    Unfortunately it appears age and nagging injuries have finally started to diminish the skills of Wake. Vernon really hasn't played well since the early part of the 2014 season and the rest of the players on the DL other than Suh, have shown that they are no better than average or below at best.

    Right now this looks like a 5-11 team to me, but hopefully Campbell can get more out the players than Philbin did. I have already stated on another post that if he can lead this team to an 8-8 record after their 1-3 start, he should be coach of the year in the NFL.
     
  14. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    well...then Im left asking...to be completely honest..

    Why the **** does it matter?
     
  15. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    All good points, especially the one I bolded. However, it's possible that Campbell has his finger on the pulse of the team enough to know that firing Coyle and allowing Suh and Wake to play the way they want will make their positive leadership emerge to such an extent that you'd actually want there to be a "Manhattan" in the locker room.

    In other words, if those two are willing to jump on the head coach's bandwagon, start playing the way they're capable of, and truly lead the team, you may actually want something in there physically demarcating that sort of presence.

    Analogously, think of how a courtroom is laid out, with the judge up higher than the rest of the room. That's done for a reason.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Because I want to understand it.

    Some people have finally given some good thoughtful answers and that has helped me see things I wasn't seeing before this.

    Some have lost their damn minds and went off the paranoid deep end.
     
  17. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    There is so much chest beating on this site. What does it prove?

    Can't you all just relax? Find your own inner peace?

    It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong. It affects your life in no positive way.

    Try a yoga class and relax.

    It's all good.


    Namaste.
     
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  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd say it has to be that at this point. It's a very big unknown though. For me, as I said earlier, it's not that I think the replacements are worse than Philbin and coyle, but typically interim staffs just don't have the results we want, or results that would likely meet the expectations we had for this team.

    As for the interim staff being worse than Philbin... we don't know. I think that's what creates a lot of that "fear" or "negativity" with the replacements, even though there's joy that Philbin is gone. We just don't know what we're going to get. Campbell could be the next Lombardi. He could also be the next Cam Cameron. Nobody knows, but I'd say it's also hard to be optimistic about it, since Campbell has so little experience in coaching in general.

    Often times, you'll get an interim who's an experienced co-ordinator taking over. People have faith in that easier than with your TE's coach taking over. Mainly because as a co-ordinator, the next step in the coaching progression is to HC. It's just a little more comfortable for people I'd think to accept that, than to accept what we did.
     
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  19. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I didn't even know they had it in XXL...I just know what DJ is getting for Christmas. Possibly McLovin if the Pats stay undefeated...
     
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  20. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Did OP somehow forget the rest of the staff was put in place by Philbin? Did he somehow forget our interim coach (while delightfully polar opposite when it comes to personality) has never been a coordinator in his entire coaching career let alone a head coach? How about the complexity of attempting to adjust/change defensive schemes midstream?

    Shaking my head that these things actually had to be explained.
     
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  21. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Someone who will read your posts

    Someone who boasts

    Hahaha... don't crucify me
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Um...ok?
     
  23. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Your not boastful, it just rhymed.

    I've gone too far, that can happen sometimes...
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're in Hawaii, I can't be mad at you. Its my heaven.
     
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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We are on pace for 4-12 season. One punt return away from a possible 0-4. Just maintaining is a bad season.
     
  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    omg that fn cracked me up
     
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  27. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Not a chance IN HELL this team gets anywhere in the neighborhood of 8-8 WITH Philbin in 2015. Not with how they looked coming out in all 4 games this season...no way no day. I had us headed for 3-13 at best after the Jills game...and I've NEVER been that down on the record...EVER. So to me, 4-12 in an improvement...but I haven't predicted any record and I won't for a few more games at least.

    I personally didn't say what I thought the record would be now without Philbin/Coyle, because I haven't seen yet what the team will look like w/o those guys. Ya Campbell says all the right things and he definitely seems to have the locker room...but there's really no way of knowing, at this point, how it will look on the field dude. It's really just that simple.

    I'm REALLY hoping for the best...I'd love to see Campbell light it up and get the full-time gig...that's my kind of story, but it's not expected.
     
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  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Right, but we really didn't do anything to get worse on the player front this past offseason. So, why would we go from 8-8 to 3-13 if not for Philbin & Coyle losing the team?
     
  29. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    There's Def a point to be made about how many people swore up and down that Philbin was a loser, the team wouldn't play for him, now saying that the team sucks and won't do any better with Philbin gone.

    The explanation is that the current staff are hold overs who can't be expected to improve much. Ok. That part makes sense. But it doesn't vibe with the original sentiment that Philbin's presence was a drag that undermined the team's ability to play to its potential.
     
  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    There is both a coaching and a talent problem if you ask me. I don't overlook it just because we spent big on one D-lineman and a bunch of new WR's.
     
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  31. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The Dolphins aren't a good team, period. There are some big names here and there but when it comes to having the talent to play schemes and win games, too many weaknesses. Yet the narrative being put forth continues to be that this is a good team being held back by poor leadership.
     
  32. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    I really do not know what we have with either. I keep hearing the same thing said by different people in different ways: play relaxed, not tight, on the edge, be more aggressive, and play through people. It really seems like Philbin had everyone walking on egg shells. One way or another, we will know on Sunday.
     
  33. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    Maybe. I thought the statement about the Chargers game happening because Philbin was away as a bunch of BS. The thing I remember about that games is aggressive, relaxed, on the edge play. Perhaps Philbin was so up tight the team played up tight. Again, we will see Sunday.
     
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  34. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Please keep this thread on topic and make it about the subject to be discussed, not about each other.

    Also, take the off-topic stuff to the lounge, that's where it belongs.

    Thanks.
     
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  35. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    how hard is it to comprehend the coaches are a product of Philbin and Coyle. If you lop the head off a snake it writhes and twists and turns until.........death.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The complaining was very specific to Philbin and Coyle. Not the guys under them. Hell, LOTS of people praised Lazor and wanted him to be HC even though he was hired by...get this....Joe Philbin.
     
  37. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I believe I have read that very thing here. I really hope we do well I just am trying to be realistic. I think We will look inspired and we may even win the first game because of all the emotion that will need to be let out. At least give a decent show. However, the coaches are almost forced to go with the same defense and offense for a variety of reasons. I believe the Phins were flat because of the uninspired flat monotone personality of Joe Philbin. The team became who he was/is. Campbell may be able to be somewhat competitive. However, lack of experience and weather we have the proper schemes for this talent - remains to be seen. I know one thing, Lazor and Arunmo (what ever his name is) should be free to run the scheme as they see fit. Question is do they know how how without Philbin. My guess is somewhat. enough to be that little Train "I think I can" A lot of factors will determine and we will have a real good idea Sunday of where we are headed. Personally I believe we have work to do on both sides of the ball especially the offensive line before we ever sniff the playoff's.
     
  38. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I remember when they had that long opening drive the same people that say we look flat every week said we looked flat again. Then we stopped them on the 4th down and got some momentum, we scored some points and got more momentum. That momentum snowballed and the offense and defense were finally able to compliment each other and cruise to victory.

    Momentum is the missing ingredient most weeks. We get it occasionally but almost always lose it. Some weeks we never get any momentum, like in the Jets or Bills games. In the Jags game I felt like we had all the momentum and thought for sure we were on our way to victory. It was a crushing way to lose and I believe it carried over into the Bills game. I never bet against the Dolphins but if I did I would have bet the farm on that day, have never been so sure about a loss as I was on that day.
     
  39. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I lost faith in Philbin last season, but I held out hope because I thought it was possible that he wasn't given enough time. After the first game this season you could see that he had lost the team.

    I don't think people are negative because we lost Philbin. I think people are negative because firing a coach 3/4 through the season is too late. Yes, Philbin needed to go. However, even if we got Don Shula (in his prime) himself to come coach our team from here on out I'd be surprised if we made the playoffs. Not because he's a bad coach, but because it's an overall bad situation. Philbin should have been fired, at the latest, end of last season.
     
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  40. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Possibly, but unlikely. They believe that when a coach is fired 3/4 through the season the team is in dire straights.

    If I'm stabbed through the heart with a sword, removing the sword (Philbin) won't stop the bleeding.
     

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