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Mel Kiper bashes Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by yoge, Oct 8, 2015.

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  1. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    In a game vs. the league's most lethal passing offense, I would hope our own offense could run out the clock and not put that on the defense ..... which CLEARLY was not at an advantage in the matchup.
     
  2. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Boils down to "situational" relevance when we bring it up. Just like when we take a closer look at 3rd down numbers and Redzone.

    It's not that Tanny hasn't done it in spots here and there. The reality is his play has been less than desirable at the end of the year when the playoffs are on the line. If he can do it in "spots" vs. Denver and GB earlier in the year ..... why not at the end? But see that's when the "other factors" get brought up excusing him of not being THE GUY to put them over the top.
     
  3. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Alright, fair enough. I apologize.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what this means. Can you clarify?

    That Tannehill had an excellent OL in college (Jake Matthews - 1st round 6th pick, Luke Joeckel - 1st round 2nd pick, Patrick Lewis - Seahawks) along with a sweet group of WRs (Fuller, Swopes, Nwachukwu) certainly doesn't bode well for his fan-club. Tannehill wasn't drafted on production, he was drafted based on projection by the worst GM in Dolphins history desperate for a QB. Also didn't hurt that Sherman was hired as OC.
     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, you're right. At the end of seasons, I saw everyone other than Tannehill playing well, and Tannehill alone playing like garbage to lose us games.

    Oh yeah, everyone played like trash. Which is why I think it's ridiculous for you guys to blame Tannehill so much for these things. It's why I point out stuff like, when Wilson plays like garbage, his team went 5-1. You can't seem to understand that there is no margin for error for Tannehill. He has to play lights out every game for the team to even have a chance. It's ridiculous to put that much pressure on any QB.
     
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  6. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    IMO he was drafted based on convenience, chrony-ism and ticket sales. The fanbase was starving for a franchise QB and it just so happened to be Philbin's buddy ol' pal Sherman had a young guy with some flashy physical tools whom they wouldn't have to tutor too much on the playbook since it was being ported over.
     
  7. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Man this is the same tired conversation from you. You said you believe that the QB isn't capable of elevating the offense in close games down the stretch, because it's a "team sport." I get it. Stop responding to me already.

    You can't even keep your story straight because a few comments prior you told me that Tanny put the team on his back vs. GB and Denver. That's not possible if it's a "team sport". :confused2:
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure I can make this any simpler...either contribute to the thread and stay on topic without insulting the poster or using a silly meme to respond or taunt or don't bother.

    Or to put it another way, your post shouldn't be about another poster but the content of his prior post. Clear?
     
  9. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill had a HC in college who believed in him so little he made him back up a qb who couldn't hold his jock and caused Ryan to convert to another position, which he successfully did. That OL you speak of...Matthews is the only one worth a damn. Joeckel is a step up from a joke and none of the wr have had any success at the nfl level. The success Ryan has had, however limited you feel, in the NFL has been because Ryan has worked his tail off not because of Texas A&M and backwards *** Mike Sherman whose HS football team was 0-3 at last check.
     
  10. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, because all the metrics out there last said Ryan Tannehill was one of the top 5 most accurate passers on short and intermediate passes. Yes his deep ball needs work....still....but give him protection and he's at least as good as the guys you'd rank 10-12 in QB rankings. He's not elite... yet...and he may never be....but I think the potential to be elite is there. He may be one of those QB'S like a Rich Gannon or Chad Pennington who plays his best football during the 2nd half of his career.
     
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  11. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    He may or may not be. There's no way to know.

    What I do know is he's still the same guy he was in college i.e. throws darts to the comebacks/curls on the short/intermediate areas of the field and occasionally makes an athletic play out of the pocket. What's changed is he's adjusted to the speed of the NFL game now (sorta).

    Lazor played to those strengths last year and he was more effective when Albert was at his healthiest. He's extremely dependent on variables to be successful. He is not "the offense" like upper echelon QB's.

    There's no way I put him at 10. He's 12-15 when he's at his best.
     
  12. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree he's not the guy yet. But I think he's come a long way since he came in to the league. Like I said, he has the potential to be the guy which is more then you can say for a lot of qb.

    On a different note...please type the full word when attempting to curse. Creativity to circumvent the profanity filter we have in place is not appreciated. That goes for everyone.
     
  13. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I for one thought this year was going to be a critical one in Tannehill's taking a real step forward. I've seen small progress, mostly in flashes, since he's joined the team.

    He wasn't all world last year, but he had made enough adjustments to put up more than respectable numbers.

    I was really hoping this year he'd begin to take the reigns and starting putting up 300-yd games based on having command of the offense. To be honest, the way he played against the Jags is a sign he is trying to take that next step but there's no way he's going to be able to do it if the line doesn't get better.

    If the line remains as much of an issue as it is, I really feel Tannehill might never make that next step.
     
  14. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Regardless on their success or not at the NFL level Tannehill's OL was dominant at the college level. Tannehill was only sacked 9 times to go along with 531 attempts his senior season. That is outstanding. Ryan Swope fell in the draft to the 6th round due to concussion concerns which led him to retiring before his NFL career ever began. Fuller couldn't get separation against NFL DBs, but both were excellent WRs at the college level that included 1,000+ yard seasons for each with double-digit TD catches.

    No argument about Tannehill's work ethic.

    How not to think that Tannehill has only had limited success? IMO his peak was leading Miami to back-to-back wins against Pitt and NE in 2013 and Miami only needing one win against Buffalo or the NYJ the final two weeks that had me excited and thinking maybe we did have a franchise QB. And then a pathetic 7 total points combined against the Bills and Jets that negated the Pitt, NE games. Chad Henne led Miami to a 7-6 and 6-8 record his first two years starting and at best I would say he had limited success. Not sure how Tannehill has been any more successful than Henne so far.
     
  15. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Didn't he have an injured shoulder for those last 2 games in 2013?

    And you continue to equate W/L directly and solely as a QB stat, using it to compare RT to CH and their associated "success"...hard to take serious.
     
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  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Have a bad feeling that after the Cubbies beat the Mets in 5, you are gonna be grumpy with an itchy ban finger.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Got it. I don't intend to curse tbh. That was like the one time I have ever considered doing so (during the convo between Resnor and myself that you removed).

    Hey now ..... Let's go Mets!
     
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  18. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Man I was soooooo sold on him after those B2B wins. Then he took a giant dump on my better judgement as he flamed out vs. Buff and the Jets with the playoffs on the line right after those two games.
     
  19. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    So, is it the line or the QB? In 31 pages I haven't figured it out yet!


    Namaste.
     
  20. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Depends on who you talk to. Nobody has made it definitive one way or the other.
     
  21. yogi superstar

    yogi superstar Banned

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    it's the classic chicken vs. egg conundrum

    I think it's a tie.

    Namaste.
     
  22. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Its actually the OC, OL, QB, Wrs

    In that order if you ask me. Lazor vs OL was a tough one...but he has no idea how to counter a pass rush.


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  23. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Lol...I recall the excuse at the time was the players weren't happy with Sherman and it was his fault. Might as well throw in a shoulder to cover all bases. Particularly when the QB puts up 30 for 67, 286 yards, 1 TD, 3 int in the games combined.

    A QB solely responsible? Nope, of course not. But like it or not Wins/Losses is a stat associated with QBs. A person can deny it if it doesn't reflect well on their guy, but it still exists. Just like the QB is not solely responsible for a TD pass or a completion or YPA or...the OC calls the play, the OL blocks, the WR makes the catch, the opposing defense fails to stop it, etc...but all of those stats are associated with and used to evaluate a QB and so are Wins/Losses.

    There is no more important position in ALL of sports than the QB and the QB, more than anyone else (not solely), will directly effect the outcome of the game. There is NO stat more important than Wins/Losses and it is a LEGIT stat used to evaluate a QBs effectiveness or lack thereof.
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If your car can't go because the transmission is shot, do you blame the engine?
     
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  25. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Poor comparison. We've seen QB's navigate in the NFL behind substandard lines. When the transmission is shot, there's nothing that can be done, car won't start.
     
  26. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well I hope you are wrong. So should everyone else :)
     
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  27. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    There is an endless list of built-in adjustments when it comes to why he hasn't performed at various junctures of his career.

    It's crazy how 7 out of the 10 highest cap hits this year are QB's when sources say it's a team sport and their impact on the team is equal to every other position.
     
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  28. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    When you throw the football 44 times and only dial up 7 running plays you can't expect greatness folks.
     
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  29. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of cars work fine with the same transmission. I would say Tannehill just can't drive this car because the transmission is a manual, whereas what he needs is an automatic...
     
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  30. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I think Lazor has been Tannehill's best friend. He has implemented a system allowing Tannehill to throw short, underneath passes elevating his QB rating making him look much more effective than he is. Tannehill's fans seem to think he played lights out in the second half. Yet, Miami was held to 16 points or less in 4 of their final 8 games coinciding with another late season collapse. Short completions inflate a QB rating unfairly using the NFL formula. The college formula puts more weight on yardage which I believe to be more effective in reflecting a QBs level of play. Also, ESPN QBR gives a much more accurate rating than the old, outdated NFL formula.

    Keep in mind Foles got to play in a similar system when Lazor was his QB coach in 2013 and posted the 2nd highest single-season QB rating in the history of the NFL. Did Foles have the second best season for a QB ever? No way, although he did play very well.

    Do you think it was Lazor that made the call against the Jaguars with 30 seconds left, Miami down by 3 and needing 45 yards to go with no timeouts left for Tannehill to dump the ball underneath to Landry running laterally in the middle of the field covered by two defenders and sure to be tackled for a minimal gain? Tannehill being Tannehill.

    According to Lazor almost all plays have a deep option built in and it is Tannehill's call to take a shot. It sure would help to hit a few deep passes and stretch the defense. Might help the running game quite a bit. On the positive, at least Tannehill took a couple of shots down the field in London and got some PI calls. More of that please!
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He claims the most important of the team should get W/L credit regardless of what's going on. If that's true, then a car that doesn't go, must be blamed on the engine regardless of what's actually wrong. Just because something is the most important part doesn't mean it should get the credit or blame across the board.

    Will a win or loss be a QBs fault? Sure, just like sometimes the car won't go because the problem is in the engine. But a win or a loss is not always a QBs fault, and its not even rarity that it isn't. Because of that, you cannot make W/L a QB stat.

    Did either you or Adam want Philbin fired? Coyle? Why? Do you feel like they negatively effected the outcome of games? Do those games count for or against Tannehill?
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is it a dude or a girl in that photo..
     
  33. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    During the times when the transmission is running just fine and the engine has no horsepower and putters out do you blame the transmission and also the tires, door handles, steering wheel?
     
  34. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Collinsworth made a point when discussing Weeden during the Sunday night game, he said as a receiver when you are constantly just catching short passes it becomes almost impossible to get the defensive backs off of you and it effects both the passing game and the running game. Sound familiar?
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    huh?

    Was our oline running fine? Coaching staff? Last year did we have good receivers? Was our defense allowing 30+ points? Os that what you call running fine?
     
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  36. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ive never read anything supporting options being had for Ryan at the LOS other than he can go from a pass to a run. Seen conflicting reports so unsure.

    Alot like Ryan, Bill's performance is OL dependant. He does a poor job adjusting his formations to help this issue. Dont even get me started on the obvious 3rd and long playfake he calls quite frequently.

    Lazor isnt part of the solution he is apart of the problem.


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  37. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    I was thinking the same thing is that bruce jenner in your avy dj?
     
  38. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Dan Marino is giving you "The Stare" right now. LOL
     
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  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol, in my avatar or yoga guys sig?, in mine no it's not Bruce Jenner.
     
  40. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Last year OL not the worst, definitely not great. Albert injury affected. Running game was pretty good (2nd in the league at 4.7 ypa). Matthews, Landry, Wallace and Clay are a good group of WRs with a QB that can throw deep to take advantage of Wallace's speed. Defense got progressively worse.

    Coaching staff...imo for Philbin to have succeeded he needed a QB that exudes leadership and could take charge of the team. Definitely didn't have that.

    Would a good QB (Rivers, Ben, Brady, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc...) been able to get this team to the playoffs? Yes.

    Do you see that our QB doesn't help our OL, WR, running game by being able to make big plays?
     
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