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Rishard Matthews...WOW

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phins_Fan_87, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    This guy has some elite talent. Will we be able to pay him next year? Playing 90% snaps yesterday. Finally jennings takes a seat.
     
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  2. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Not sure we keep him... this guy has been begging for a trade for two offseasons now... he always felt like this team was holding him back and wanted to go anywhere else for a shot..

    maybe with more playing time he calms down and would want to stay.. I thought and said he would breakout last year but we barely played him.. just 21 targets last year, a 43 dropoff from his sophomore year lol..
     
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  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    He's definitely earning a reason to keep him.
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I've been arguing that he had #1 war potential since we drafted him. I always felt he could develop into a Boldin type.
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We should cut Jennings next year and use the $4 mil saved to pay Matthews (assuming he keeps playing this way). Not sure Matthews will command too high a price in FA with just one year playing relatively well but not spectacularly (all we need).
     
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  6. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Great draft pick by Jeff Ireland. Suck it haters, talent has not been the problem with this team.
     
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  7. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Last year I kept saying, there is no way that Brian freaking Hartline, a guy that falls on his *** tripping on his own feet, is better than Matthews. You can put any receiver out there and they can do what Hartline did for us. ANY RECEIVER. People kept saying he is a 1000 yard receiver, the chemistry with Tannehill, blahblahblah. He runs great routes, blahblahblah.. they spoke about his route running like he was the second coming of Jerry Rice...

    Give Rishard Matthews 135 targets like you did to Hartline on those and he would eclipse any single season yardage Hartline got. And he won't fall flat on his facemask on his own, he can actually stay balanced after the catch. There is absolutely no reason why Hartline deserved to start, and look at him now, he hasn't started one freaking game in Cleveland, they've been moving the ball just fine without him and his 9 catches.

    2012, 128 targets explained - second and third best receivers were Bess and Nanee
    2013, 135 targets explained - Wallace was the #1 and average at best at it, Gibson injury.
     
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  8. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Phailbin was mad at him. He farted and it smelled bad so Phailbin put him in the doghouse the past three seasons.
     
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  9. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Parker, Landry, mathews is our future. I don't see them going anywhere
     
  10. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Don't forget Stills. Not too many WRs have the ability to make the type catch he made on Sunday. We need his speed and breakaway ability.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He deserves discussion.

    This is a player that was VERY GOOD at Nevada. He looked good with Colin Kaepernick throwing him the ball as he had something like 800-900 yards and 6 TDs, but he looked even better the following year with a freshman Cody Fajardo throwing him the ball catching like 1300-1400 yards and 8 TDs. The Nevada offense had a bunch of nobodies after people like Virgil Green, Vai Taua and Colin Kaerpernick left in 2011...but Rishard carried them to 32 points per game anyway.

    A reminder of how good he was back then:

    [video=youtube_share;S6srtbQe3KA]https://youtu.be/S6srtbQe3KA[/video]

    So what happened? Why did he get drafted in the 7th round? For one thing, there's a certain element of drafting players where the scouting departments fall in love with different players like boys asking different girls out to the prom. You could find a hot girl with no date to the prom and you're like how the hell did that happen, and the simple answer is everyone got locked in on the girls they decided to ask and somehow this girl is left without a date. What hurt Rishard was he played at a school that wasn't all that interesting to scouts in the post-Kaepernick era, and if I remember right he ran his 40 yard dash at the Combine hurt so his electronic time ended up a 4.62 (was 4.54 hand-held, which is important). He circled back and ran a 4.44 on campus but that kind of gets lost in the shuffle as every guy starts picking a girl. But we're talking about a guy that measured 6'0.5" and 217 lbs (that's a significant weight, by the way), with 4.44 to 4.54 speed, 10'3" broad jump, 36 inch vertical, 4.19 shuttle and 6.88 cone. Basically if you could assign 70th to 80th percentile to every measurable (with 99th being the best), that's Rishard Matthews. Everything is "good" but nothing is "great". Again that comes into play when teams start asking girls out on dates. Matthews didn't have a hook.

    Then what happens in the NFL? I hate to over-simplify but there's plenty of backing for this. He got in the doghouse of the same head coach who signed off on trading away talented players like Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis because they weren't "professional" enough for him, the same guy who fought to get rid of Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett, the same guy who always put guys like Dallas Thomas and Daniel Thomas higher on the depth chart than they should be because they acted "professionally". Meanwhile Rishard Matthews is late to a few meetings, possibly even went out to his car during a halftime to go retrieve his iPod or something like that, had some other minor issues and one way or another gets put in position where every year it seems like there's a fresh rumor that Rishard is asking to be traded out of town. The front office year after year is BEGGING to get him more playing time, so they can get a more accurate view of how talented he is and where he fits into the plans, and Joe Philbin is squashing him at every turn.

    If you want to take the position that if Rishard Matthews were really all that talented then he'd have shown it by now, then my only reply is: Joe Philbin. And Vontae Davis (who by the way had been demoted to nickel even BEFORE he was traded). And Brandon Marshall. And Karlos Dansby. And god only knows I'm probably forgetting more people.

    I've been getting into an argument with Ian Wharton (whom I love) over this. He seems to zealously want to put forth the idea that Rishard isn't really that good, that it's all Tannehill. To that I'd point to two plays:

    [video=youtube;mUSDVkzhOho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSDVkzhOho[/video]
    [video=youtube;zFxEJGluYJs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxEJGluYJs[/video]

    On the first one that's actually a poor throw by Tannehill and Rishard does something that is VERY hard to do. When you're a receiver and you're running on track to catch a pass, and that pass gets interrupted from where you thought it was going to be, it's really hard to reset your eyes and your mind on the move and come down with it. He does that without really breaking stride. So hard to do.

    On the second one yes Ryan Tannehill does a good job escaping pressure and launching what really amounts to a hail mary on 4th & 8. Not taking away from Tannehill as he picked out a receiver with single man coverage down the field and just heaved it hoping he'd make a play. But that's exactly what that was: relying on the RECEIVER to "make a play". It wasn't necessarily even one of those throws that shows a stupefying arm strength or accuracy, either. Rishard Matthews made that play happen.
     
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  12. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I think we all know that Jennings won't be here next year. If you can afford to keep Matthews, then you should. Landry, Matthews and Parker as your top three wide outs makes for a happy QB. Stills and Hazel, most likely, round out the group for a few more years. That is an embarrassment of riches for one position and each have skill sets that compliment each other.

    Fix that o-line and it gets scary.
     
  13. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I beg to differ. When it comes to whining to the refs about not getting a pass interference call after not making yet another catch, NO ONE does that better than Brian Hartline
     
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  14. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I saw hartline do that in the game yesterday :)
     
  15. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Yep at this point it seems the thing to do is move on from Jennings at the end of the season and spend that money paying Matthews to keep him here. I would love a receiving corps consisting of Stills, Parker, Landry, Matthews and Hazel.
    Pretty Damn good group there.
     
  16. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Hell if Green Bay wants Jennings they can give us a call... They suffered yet another injury on their WR corps yesterday with Ty Montgomery.. if they think Jennings is serviceable for them this season... give us a 7th rounder and you can take him..
     
  17. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    yes
     
  18. yoge

    yoge New Member

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    I say trade him. We are going to lose him next season and get nothing in return. We can pick up a good olineman for him.
     
  19. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    Would hate to lose him for nothing.
     
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  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    This is someone that everybody definitely needs to start paying attention to here, because the iPod incident wasn't public knowledge. It was around mid-season last year and it had Philbin in a frenzy.

    Matthews asked to be traded in the off-season once we started shuffling away receivers and rebuilding our WR corp. He saw it as evidence that he'd never get a fair shot in Miami, and he was quite verbal around the organization about wanting to play elsewhere. Philbin assured him that he would have an opportunity to compete for a starting role though, and since that time he has been practicing hard and molding into that "yes man" that Philbin likes to have in the locker room. From what I hear, he's been happy since that point forward and does not want to be traded anymore.

    Of course, we will see what happens once it comes around to contract talks, but I feel pretty confident that we keep him around. He certainly has WR1 talent and he fits our scheme perfectly; we'd be nuts to let him walk.
     
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  21. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    I'd let vernon walk before letting matthews go
     
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I happened to see that play too. It was tough to call, but I think it was pass interference. The guy definitely had his arm around Hartline's waist early, then he absolutely manhandled him to the ground once the ball arrived. Definitely not one of Hartline's better moments...he got up screaming before he even knew a ref was close, then plead his case even more once he saw that a ref was listening.
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    F--k Olivier Vernon.
     
  24. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Re-sign Matthews and be done with it. We'd be fools to let him walk. Axe Jennings, let Vernon walk and for the love of Zeus....Do not draft a receiver in the draft.
     
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  25. yoge

    yoge New Member

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    Dolphins won't be able to afford this guy. He is going to demand a **** load of money. We have a very deep group of receivers. Put the rookie in and let him start and trade Matthews and get a olineman.
     
  26. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    We need to be talking extension with him RIGHT NOW.
     
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  27. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    a lot of us have been saying this guy was good for the last couple of seasons and needed to play yet our coaching staff did jack **** and probably burned that bridge in terms of staying in miami.
     
  28. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    the guy catches everything
     
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  29. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I dont think any bridges have been burned with him, especially since Philbin is gone. I would definitely be looking at trying to get him signed to an extension now.
     
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  30. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Tell us how you really feel CK!
     
  31. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    These are yards per snap numbers since 2012:
    2014
    Landry-1.11 yards per play
    Wallace- 1.05
    Matthews- 0.64
    Gibson- 0.59
    Hartline- 0.58
    Sims- 0.56
    (Stills-1.51 yards on each of his 617 offensive snaps in 2014. Which is better by far than any Dolphin receiver.)

    2013
    Gibson- 1.41 yards per snap on 252 snaps
    Hartline- 1.12 yards per on 907 offensive snaps
    Wallace- 0.98 yards per snap on 951 snaps
    Matthews- 0.86 yards per on 519 snaps

    2012
    Hartline- 1.21
    Bess- 1.05
    Matthews- 0.65 (232 offensive snaps)
    M. Moore- 0.59 (196 offensive snaps)

    As you can see, Matthews was not good when he was on the field. Either Tannehill didn't look at him or he did look but he was covered or he targeted him but he didn't make plays.

    Through week 6 of 2015:
    Matthews- 1.52 yards per snap
    Landry- 0.97 yards per snap

    So Matthews went from consistently being one of our worst receivers on a snap per snap basis, and probably one of the worst in the league to one of the best. I don't know about you all but I predicted he would have a good season after hearing him and Tannehill worked together all off-season, helping each other.

    The stats don't lie, we've consistently been giving our most productive receivers the most snaps, including this season when Matthews snap counts jumped dramatically even under Philbin. I think the light went on for Matthews and he realized he wasn't going to get playing time based on reputation or his own confidence. He had to work his *** off if he wanted to hit that pay day and both him and Tannehill have benefited from all the hard work.
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Classic PhilBo, I can get that developing players is a process, what I cannot get is having Matthews in hand, then spending more resources on Parker and Jennings and Stills.

    It was obvious to anyone who watched Matthews that he had a lot of talent and made plays, now we are looking at losing Matthews and Miller, wasting their cheap contract yrs, due to Phibo.
     
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  33. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Very good player with talent that has grown up , matured and has taken advantage of the chance he has gotten . Part of the future , should be a big part imo .
     
  34. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Either he signs a team friendly contract or he walks. Unfortunately, with the bloated contracts of Tannehill, Suh, Pouncey, Wake keeping a ascending player like Mathews would be a helluva cap struggle. Factor in receiving a high value comp pick or even a sign and trade deal to rebuild a seriously crappy LB core or OL and Hickey/Campbell has to think long term.

    Same thing if OV and L.Miller have the breakout year as predicted. Football is a business.
     
  35. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I did the same thing I always do with Dolphins and their drafts and signings. My initial thought about drafting Parker was, "WHY?!?!". You have Landry, Stills and Matthews. I thought that was more then enough. Then I started to get talked into liking the pick. Matthews was the guy in my mind that could be the dude. I think like most fans on this board, we couldn't figure out why he wasn't seeing more snaps...

    Sure hope Parker turns out to be legit, because that was a high draft pick on a position we were pretty good, deep, and young at.
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i remember discticly your predraft analysis on the player...your were his biggest fan ill just say that..
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    all three have amazing hands.
     
  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Rishard Matthews' long-term prognosis is quite so dire with Miami as it was previously. Two of the three obstacles are gone- He's getting snaps to the degree he merits, and Joe Philbin is gone.

    That leaves pay, but ultimately I'm not so sure that is a huge issue. The overall cap situation is tightening, but the Dolphins only have $10.1m allocated at WR in 2016, and $5.5m of that is going to Greg Jennings. Kenny Stills, Devante Parker, and Jarvis Landry only account for just over $4m in 2016 combined.

    Your timing is also really good- You're able to sign Matthews with three low contracts, and you've got time and space to determine where the second contracts are going on the other three.
     
  39. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Loving how the guy is playing. He took a SHOT yesterday and held on. I mean, straight LIT UP by Michael Griffin and got up like it never happened. He's becoming a solid, reliable weapon.
     
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  40. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    ...he's playing well, but he's not putting up 1300yds and 10+ tds (but if he does that'd be sick!)

    He's earning a contract with SOME guaranteed money, we can afford that
     

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