1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tell me which is the more logical route to take?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by vt_dolfan, Nov 4, 2015.

Which is the most logical direction Phins should go with QB

Poll closed Feb 2, 2016.
  1. Build a good line and good running game around Tannehill?

    83.6%
  2. Look for a QB who can win despite a bad offensive line and no running game.

    16.4%
  1. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    Be honest, tell me you didn't think when you posed the question how many super bowl winners had a poor OL that you thought the "average" would at least be in the top 10 for those categories, if not top 5.

    It appears you think an OL that finished 21, 22, 29 and 32 in sacks given up is not bad....OK
    It appears you think an OL that finished 22, 23, 25, 26, 29, 30, 32 in YPR is not bad...OK
    And contrary to popular belief a team does not need to establish the run to win the Super Bowl, unless you think finishing (23, 24, 27, 27, 32) in YPG is establishing the run...OK

    It appears you ignored all that and came to the conclusion that teams winning the super bowl have an average OL (which I bet was a big surprise to you). If that was true then there would be a small "range" in the numbers. But, in fact, the range for Sacks given up is (1-32) and for YPR is (3-32) and for RYPG (4-32).

    To help better understand that your conclusion is not correct that most teams are middle of the road

    Teams finishing 12th - 21st middle ranks (pretty fair to say that would be somewhere in the middle when there are 32 teams so 16.5 would be average); 1-11 (upper ranks); 22-32 (lower ranks)

    Sacks given up: 4 out of 14 were in the middle, 5 in the upper ranks, 5 in the lower ranks
    YPR: 5 out of 14 were in the middle, 2 in the upper ranks, 7 in the lower ranks
    RYPG: 3 out of 14 were in the middle, 6 in the upper ranks, 5 in the lower ranks

    However when looking at QB play:

    QB rating: 2 in the middle, 11 in the upper ranks, 1 in the lower ranks (Eli Manning in 2007 who played far above his regular season play during the playoffs)

    So teams that had worse OL play, but had MUCH, MUCH better QB play!

    It appears to me you thought you threw out a slam dunk question that turned out to be brick and now just trying to salvage face by claiming "average" is proof most teams fall in the middle when it isn't the case.

    Oh yeah, and Miami is not ranked 30th in YPR...Miami is tied for "1st" at 5.0 with STL...they are 17th in RYPG, but that is b/c of rushing attempts per game. Not sure where you got your numbers, but it appears they are wrong. And Miami would be ranked 26th in sacks per attempt.

    The other claim that is not accurate is somebody is saying Tannehill needs a top 10 OL to be effective...ME :lol: but even that is no guarantee as evidence by throwing picks when not being pressured and being the only player on the team not aware when the ball was being hiked against the Pats for a safety...ugh!
     
  2. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    No its not. Its in large part because that is the offense Bill Lazor runs. He has flat said as much. For this offense to be effective we need to have an effective run game. Chip Kellys offense..NEEDS THE RUN game to be an effective offense.

    Our offense is predicated on the ability to show one look, and produce various things out of that one look. A defense can see the look, and we run out of it. It can see the look, and we throw a short pass out of it. They can see the look and we go deep out of it. Lazor's entire offense is predicated on this.

    If we pass the ball 74 percent of the time out of those looks...guess what the defense does not have to do? Play the run. Defensive linemen, dont play the run. They head up field to get to the QB. LB's...they arent worried about maintaining their gaps....why? We arent running the ball. Basically on 74 percent of the downs...the defensive line and some of the LBs are in sack QB mode. Hell...even the CBs get in on the party.
     
  3. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I am being honest. What was my question? How many Super Bowl teams have won with a bad offensive line. Read back through the thread....its pretty clear any of us who have argued with have line issues..have said...hell get us an average line.

    There have been 49 Super Bowls....and you showed me....4 times, where an OL was ranked 20th or worse and won the Super Bowl. 4 out of 49. Really?


    30. Miami Dolphins (27th)

    Pass blocking rank: 27th
    Run blocking rank: 30th
    Penalties rank: T-8th
    Stud: You almost feel bad for Mike Pouncey (80.0) at times, who looks so much better than his line teammates.
    Dud: Pick a guard, any guard. Well, any guard named Dallas Thomas (36.3) or Jamil Douglas (28.7). Neither man has come out of the first eight weeks with any real credit.
    Summary: The offensive line looked like a weakness heading into the season, and so it has proved. Injuries to Ja’Wuan James and , haven’t helped, but even those two being fully healthy couldn’t overcome the play at the guard spots.


    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/04/ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-entering-week-9/



    Oh and the safety? Guess you missed the part where on that play...Tannehill was NOT the one who was to call for the snap. Turner was supposed to see if Tannehill was ready..and tap Pouncey on the side...which he did...but Tannehill wasnt ready.
     
    adamprez2003 and resnor like this.
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    How many offenses don't?
     
  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    i don't get the obsession with limiting stats to just the SB winner. In general I prefer at least all of the championship game teams if not all of the playoff participants in general.
     
  6. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well that's the benchmark right?'

    I think its safe to assume that most if not all would agree, you can't win many games in the NFL throwing 73 percent of the time.

    What causes us to throw so often?
     
    Fin D and resnor like this.
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,350
    9,890
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    It's actually ludicrous, when you think about it...people are arguing that Tannehill is the weakest link on offense, yet we are throwing 73% of the time??

    This means, either Tannehill is truly terrible, and the coaches just can't see it, or the coaches know the other parts are so terrible, that they're willing to throw Tannehill under the bus, and make him throw an abnormal amount of times, as they believe he's the best option we have.

    Or Tannehill simply refuses to use the run option that is designed into the plays, which I find hard to fathom that the coaches would allow that to continue this long.
     
  8. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    What I wish is people would take the time to actually learn about the offense we run.

    Really, for those interested, you would learn a ton about the Dolphins organization by getting into Club. A ton you absolutely will not get from the media.
     
    77FinFan likes this.
  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    Which is mind-numblingly INSANE!!!!! Should never be more than 50%. He's simply not capable of shouldering the offense like that.

    Philbonehead thought he was grooming the next Aaron Rodgers back there.
     
    77FinFan and jdang307 like this.
  10. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,392
    14,745
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    In three years he'll be middle of the road in salary
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,350
    9,890
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yet people are claiming that the problem with Green Bay last week was Rodgers had to throw "too much." Apparently 22 throws was too many.
     
  12. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    Very good points String..and right on the money. Had not looked at 17s situation in this way, but I agree its best to do so.
     
  13. atomdomb

    atomdomb Banned

    118
    18
    0
    Mar 23, 2010
    I say A. Tanny's average at best play coupled with his and Suh's salary almost guarantee dolphin mediocrity for a long time.

    Disclaimer: Free Brady.
     
  14. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Lol...well played Pats fan, well played
     
    resnor likes this.
  15. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    It's limiting the dataset to 1/4 based on some merit but also lucky bounces.

    Back to throwing 73%. I'd say a coach in Philbin who never cared for balance. Against the Pats we were forced to throw, it was obvious. Patriots dared us to throw and we couldn't.
     
  16. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Ugh...we arent gettin any where with this conversation. At the end of the day..one will be right...one will be wrong. Until then...its futile to argue something neither side will budge from.
     
  17. bran

    bran Senior Member

    4,525
    1,505
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I would rather have a coach and GM that can build a complete team that will become a dynasty, so we can plug a good qb into the system and keep the ball rolling rather than have the elite qb with a **** team around him so when he retires/goes down we are not back in the dark ages, sort of like what happened to the miami dolphins.......
     
  18. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

    2,476
    1,128
    113
    Mar 21, 2013
    I don't think he's the weakest link. I just think that he is and will be an Alex Smith type. If you're okay with Alex Smith, then cool. I personally think you need more than that at the QB position in order to contend consistently.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Almost no QB can shoulder that game after game.
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    The Colts and the Packers have been running off balance. Probably like 40/60. I think it was pointed out Green Bay under Philbin (and after) never ran a balanced offense.

    But they had Aaron Rodgers. They can run it 40% of the time.
     
  21. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Tannehill threads are as bad as POFO...I gotta learn just to stay out of them
    ..and not make any. My stupidity astonishes me sometimes.
     
    resnor likes this.
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,350
    9,890
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    So, we have 10 people on the forum who, if they were a GM, would be out of a job in like three seasons, when they kept drafting QBs, and never building a team around what they have.
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  23. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    The GM, HC and OC that rested their careers on Tannehill are all out of job.
     
    jdang307 likes this.
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,350
    9,890
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    LMAO

    That's the best you've got? Ireland isn't gone because of Tannehill. Neither is Sherman, or Philbin.
     
    adamprez2003 and Fin D like this.
  25. Man-U

    Man-U New Member

    47
    33
    0
    Sep 28, 2015
    Both
     

Share This Page