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Interesting comments from Omar Kelly/Sun Sentinel

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. phinphever

    phinphever Punk, Make My Day!!

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    Did you even read my post?
    I want to know all those things without opinion.
    It is possible to report without opinions.
    I can't believe you even read my whole post.
     
  2. phinphever

    phinphever Punk, Make My Day!!

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    I even listen to the radio when I watch games on TV because the TV announcing crews are so biased and ignorant they are just impossible to listen to. Also I'm not going ballistic I'm stating my views on the media.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is not true. Stats don't lie, they just don't tell the whole story. Stats, analysis, film, they all go into evaluating. None of these stand by themselves, they must be taken as a whole.
     
  4. Hellweed

    Hellweed Death From Above!

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    I find Omar's reporting style to be unprofessional. I know there are no real standards placed on bloggers, but it does fall under the Sun Sentinel and they should care how it reflects on their company name. You've heard the expression: dress for the job you want. In a more general picture, be as professional as the job you want requires. It appears Omar aspires to be a blogger long term.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
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  5. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    i think omar is with the sun sentinel
     
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  6. Hellweed

    Hellweed Death From Above!

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    Thank you. I was looking at the wrong link.
     
  7. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    I think it's great Beck has such a loyal following.............how many other 3 sting Qb's from last year have that?? None i can think of.

    It's funny this all started with what some other Miami Dolphins reporter said, then people just thought it was Omar just because he saying the same thing as Omar.

    Some of you should go and hear the interview with Omar on www.wqam.com cuzz the Big O has no reason to say Beck is playing bad other then if thats what he's seeing 1st hand.
     
  8. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    Omar has the best blog IMHO, apparently that is not what most guys around here think though. He is the least emotional guy especially compared to Armando.

    Fialko is the guy who annoys me the most, at least Armando behaves and asks intelligent questions when he gets to interview players. Fialko is just an out and out media whore after attention...
     
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  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    To be honest, I don't like any of them. However, I do read them and then compare them to our poster's (Ozzy, jwong, etc) assessments. One blog states that Beck throws a 20 yard touchdown and one blog says he threw no touchdowns and an interception. What the hell? Are they all watching game tapes from last year or are they watching TC?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
  10. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    If by least emotional you mean biased, then yeah I agree
     
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  11. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I actually look forward to ATVZ400 posting the transcript of Sparano's PC's and our posters TC reports lol.
     
  12. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    :lol:
     
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  13. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeap sure did. He said he was more objective than me to which I say he isnt. You seem pro henne so it is more likely you agree with him.

    The more important question is did you think I cant read? Go back and read all your posts, then connecting teh dots isnt so hard.
     
  14. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Really?

    Then how come the "Big O" made no mention that Beck rebounded the day after he struggled with 3 interceptions, yet Sparano made it a point to say that he was happy to see Beck do just that? What about the "Big O's" nickname for Beck (checkdown)? Why is it that Beck is the one that "Big O" singles out even though Armando clearly says...

    "Let me make this point for perspective: This Miami offense seems to throw more checkdown passes than any I've ever seen.

    And while that is good in that it is a safe pass and it does gain four or five yards, it does not bode of an explosive down-the-field unit. And there can be no excuse that we saw so many checkdowns because that was the plan. It is impossible, you see, that the team would make the checkdown the plan in practice after practice after practice."


    Could it be that at this time of year the defense is almost always ahead of the offense in terms of being prepared and making plays? What about when Henne or McCown take a sack and "Big O" goes on and on about how well the DL is playing and tells us how they "blew past" Long and Satele "can't handle" Ferguson, but when Beck takes a sack on the very same day (a day in which the DL dominated the OL) "Big O" has nothing to say except "Beck took a sack", "Threw his 2nd pass away to avoid a sack and then followed it up by taking another would be sack", etc? Why do the other QB's get a break but Beck doesn't? Why did "Big O" have to address his bias against Beck in his blog a couple of days ago? Obviously we aren't the only ones who have noticed it.


    You know what? Maybe "Big O" isn't bias at all, maybe he just does a bad job of evaluating what sees out on the football field. I'll use the Sparano example that I gave above as well as the fact that Omar wasn't very high of Hagan either until Sparano and Co. came out and praised him for catching everything thrown his way.......then "Big O" comes out and only has good things to say about Hagan and starts talking about him being a starter. I find it really hard to believe that all of those happened by coincidence and I find it even harder to believe that "Big O" knows more about football than the guys who actually get paid to run the team.
     
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  15. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See I will end my sarcasm.

    Do I think that Beck is playing well and teh media is lying? NO I think Beck is struggling. But I also think that there are certain facts left out liek Henne has been playing thrid string while beck has been 1st. They say how much pressure Beck is under yet for teh most part fail to mention Henes pressure.

    Here is a post I made yesterday in Club

    The point is it isnt reporting it is teh bias in how they report it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
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  16. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Keep in mind that all of these bloggers are giving their opinions about what they see, opinions are just that. Judging an offense and making final decisions this early in camp is silly, offenses almost always struggle and aren't as well prepared as the defense this early into the process. And in the end the only analysis that matters is that of the coaching staff.
     
  17. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    I think your fight is with most of the Miami media...........
     
  18. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    We may be seeing a Wilford who has so many injuries in his body that he cant play at a high level anymore.

    Ozzy has said several times that he the reports made by the local press dont always match what he saw on the field .

    I dont hold much stock on the blogs.There appears to be no accountability for accuracy anymore.Its all opinion with the accompanying bias.

    Give me Ozzy and our camp reporters observations any day.
     
  19. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    Not only are they merely opinions, but they're given on the fly so to speak. When they're writing those "live blogs", it's alot of knee jerk stuff. For the most part I enjoy reading them. However as you indicated, you take it all with a grain of salt.
     
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  20. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    ..could be...I guess if we see Glenn signed it could be even more of an indication.
     
  21. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Touchy, no. Dont like being talked down to.

    Our point wasnt that Omar was biased based on one blog, he has been biased before TC even started. Go read his stuff and watch teh videos before TC during OTA's.

    You said 95% had bias', again I disagree. I believe it is 100%. You can say your totally objective w/o bias if you like, but I wont buy it. Being critical isnt being objective.

    When Sparano says something completely diff than teh bloggers, why is it many take the bloggers position and Sparano is window dressing? When Sparano hasnt been known for that?


    Name me one post where any of us have said Beck is doing great and has unequivocally pulled ahead? Cant cause noone has. We just said that Omar and others in their blog have slanted opinions in their reporting, leaving out details that could influence the way you perceive teh performance. Like 1st team for Beck, vs 3rd string for Henne, beck under heavy pressure vs Henne having an extra second or 2. Not saying everything is liek that, but when Ozzy says that he isnt seeing what teh bloggers are seeing that says something to me that the bloggers havent said everything.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All of the QBs so far has not been good. From what I'm reading, Omar wants us to believe it's only Beck.

    Penciling McCown as starter BEFORE camp, after Beck was statistically the best QB in the minicamps, might make you slanted towards one position. It's only human nature.

    ;)
     
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  23. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    And no one should make a personal comment about Mr Beck, unless they have a reason to do so, because of a sour personal interaction with him.

    I have said before, that John seems like the kind of guy who, regardless of whether he can play pro football or not, I would love to have as a best friend. He just comes off as the kind of nice guy who would always have your back, when you needed him as a friend. I have never heard anything but nice things about him off the field, both he and his wife, and anyone that says something personal about the guy is waaaaaaaay outta line.

    :tantrum:

    :wink2:
     
  24. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    nice post PB.. for me, it isn't that I am so enamoured in Beck, as I just can't stand the disingenuous blogging, and the exaggerated hateful things said here about him. When I see a perceived untruth, I just have to go at it.. and because there is so much "bending, or omission" of the truth in regard to Beck, it just appears like Beck has fanatics rooting for him. What it really is are the guys like me that can't stand the biased crap we see spewed, so we speak up.. I promise you that if I see the same crap said about Henne or McCown, I will speak up in defense of them too.
     
  25. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    This is correct. Which still puzzles me why people get so emotional about what Omar says. Omar isn't going to decide who starts. Blogs aren't going to determine our depth chart. But let one criticize Beck, let one say he threw 4 Ints and in reality he only threw 3, then that reporter is a liar, biased, and has an axe to grind. All over a guy who has never accomplished anything of note for this team or in this league.
     
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  26. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I wasn't talking down to you. Sorry if thats how my comments were perceived. But to the debate at hand...

    So you acknowledge that Omar (like everyone else) is biased. Then you rant about him not being objective. What obligation does he have to be objective? All of his blogs are HIS blogs. They are his insights. He reports what happens as he sees it. If its wrong, it'll be corrected (which I didn't see a report contradicting Omars blog, but thats a different story).

    If you can accept that everyone is biased, why not simply accept it with Omar as well? Thats the central question and goes to the larger question which is why so many Fins fans seem so emotionally invested in what another poster termed as a "third string QB".

    Ozzy reports like Omar reports. I have seen him give his opinion. In TC, I am inclined to defer to Ozzy and Omar because I am not there.

    Now trust me, when the games start, I'll give you my opinion and I'll defend it to the hilt. When I told people that Saban couldn't coach in this league and was in over his head, I got nothing but hate, but I stuck to my guns. And in the end, I was proved right. But right now, no one should be near as emotional as you are about a MEANINGLESS report coming from TC. A great quote that seems out of place but I think applies here..."To every thing there is a season and time for every purpose under heaven". Now is not the time to freak out over reports from a Blogger.

    Anyway, Peace. Sorry if my comments seemed offensive to you. I wasn't trying to be rude. Let's focus on the facts. And again, just so you know, I like Beck and I hope Beck succeeds.
     
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  27. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    SO WHAT? Those are his opinions. What does that matter? Look at it this way...if I he is so wrong, and so biased, and so slanted that he can't see the forrest for the trees, how stupid is he going to look when Beck turns out to be this years surprise QB?

    This isn't an election where public opinion matters. Omar turning public opinion against Beck (good luck) isn't going to determine one iota the depth chart.
     
  28. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I don't agree with this. If you are a professional football player, you are fair game. People can criticize you anytime, anyway, for any reason. Beck isn't above that. Hes no different than anyone else in that regard.
     
  29. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I think this explains why we are having such a long debate. You guys "have to go at it" when you see what you perceive to be unfair or biased remarks towards Beck.

    And others "have to go at it" when we see unworthy support for a second tier player.

    It does make for an interesting debate, that is certain.
     
  30. mullingan

    mullingan New Grandbaby Pic!!!

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    This actually has been a very interesting debate. The good thing is, there is a preseason game coming up and many more eyes will be able to get on this team and opinions will have first hand accounts coming from everywhere. I would guess that many opinions will be different, which is human nature, but also backed up with more footage, or facts if you will, to back them up. Being in Tennessee all I have to go buy is what I can get over the internet so these types of debates and summaries really get me through the tough times. I say thanks to everyone who writes up camp reports and provide pics. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.
     
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  31. PMZQ

    PMZQ Banned

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    Suncoast, reread my post. I said PERSONAL, as in a personal attack on Beck character. I have read several call him gay, or insinuate he isn't "all man", or attack his religion.

    Football is football, and there is no reason for anyone on this board to attack this guys character, because if anything he is probably one of the nicest guys you're gonna meet that is on the Miami roster. :up:
     
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  32. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See this what you dont get. I am not debating your opinion, I am debating that you dont feel mine is as valid as yours, that I have to take your side of it and relinquish mine.

    Of ccurse Omars blog is his. Yes he has more journalistic liberties. But is also my right to dispute his opinionated blog as to Beck being the lesser of teh three qbs in teh comp based on his opinionated blog. He doesnt lie, but he does omit certain facts that could, could lead the reader to form a diff conclusion, such as level of comp faced, ie 1st vs 3rd team, blitz vs nonblitz, dropped balls etc. How much detail he goes into with Beck, vs the others, sometimes same sometimes not. So you read what you want agree with what you want but dont tell me what to believe, no matter how much you value your opinion. Why do I say that? look at the bold, see how quick you are to show how right you are? Guess what I have been right on many things, ben wrong on equally as much. I guarentee you have been wrong. So the point is you can say I was right on this or that and I will believe you, dont doubt your intelligence. But I can guarentee I am not 20, I am 42, I have seen the good and the bad and can form my own intelligent conclusions

    I also do not want to come off as degrading or belittling your opinion. I just dont being called a hugger. You dont have to say teh word, but blind faith, followers implies huggers.

    Like I said I am also supporting and rooting for Henne, I want one of these guys to take the reigns. But I see all the skills needed in Beck, teh question is can he translate teh talent to teh field? And how much time does he get to do so? SParano doesnt seem to be down on him and judging that Beck has continued to get the reps w/ team 1 and is not down as much as the other 2, I believe Sparano hasnt given up on him. So until Sparano says Beck is behimd and struggling, then I will wait and see.
     
  33. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you have to go at it with us becuase of Omar? Are you Omar? Seriously? I mean we are a bunch of fans discussing things we like and don't like with other fans. Yet it is your mission it seems to have every be like you. You said it youirself, you are relying camp reports and bloggers for info, so you want as objective reporting as you can get. Slanting what your report to fit your argument is garbage. NOT SAYING THAT THE RESULTS WOULD BE DIFF, but it is just hard to trust the reporting and rely on it when the reporter is showing his bias on his sleeve.

    [mod] Please do not post antagonistic responses in the threads. [/mod]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2008
  34. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Omar doesn't have a say in who starts, his job is supposed to be to inform a fanbase that reads the SS and who view his blog from all around the world. His slanted views and lack of evaluation skills lead his readers to post things like this.....

    Instead of giving an honest assessment, his slanted view has soured half of this fanbase on a player that wasn't put in a favorable position last year with the poor surrounding talent, lack of practice time and bland offensive playcalling. Instead of having patience and being excited to see what Beck can do, half of this fanbase is calling him a "Bust" and looking for his replacement. They've been doing that since before last season even was over and anyone that feels that you can properly evaluate a player in such a short period of time just doesn't know football and how to evaluate players. That goes for Omar and all of the kneejerk reacting fans that want to dump an asset before we even know what we have.

    To offer up a slightly different way of looking at it, if you saw a blogger ignoring Beck's struggles and talking him up like he was the next Marino, I'm sure you would be shouting from the rooftops that he was bias and slanted. Omar is doing just the opposite and his bias is obvious.
     
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  35. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I still don't agree. When you are a professional athlete, getting paid to play a game, ANYTHING (personal or otherwise) IMO is fair game. If people want to say he's a "damn midget Mormon fool", as far as I am concerned, thats fine.

    Hopefully people will stay away from those things, but look at how personal people got about Quincy Carter. They called him alot of what could be considered personally insulting. Hey, it comes with the territory.
     
  36. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Its not about my opinion vs your opinion. Its about a collective opinion that "John Beck should be above criticism--fair or unfair".

    Every player who struggles in every camp everywhere in the NFL gets criticized. There are certain players that are immune...Favre in GB, Aikman in Dallas, Marino here in Miami, but those guys are legends.

    Whatever John Beck is, he ain't no legend. Yet gets "legendary treatment and protection" from so many here.

    I don't, and I don't think I ever will, understand it. That said, you seem to have good football instincts and I have enjoyed discussing this with you. Hopefully we'll have many more informative discussions in the future.
     
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  37. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Uh, I am not Omar...seriously. :tongue2:
     
  38. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Hmmm....if I saw a blogger calling John Beck the next Marino (and no one disputed what this blogger said) I would be cautiously optimistic that this guy might be a good QB. Asking anyone to be the next Marino is just crazy talk. And then I would judge the QB and the blogger based on what the reality of that QB turned out to be. I promise you that.

    But your whole paragraph of "half the fanbase is turned against Beck"...again, Who Cares? The "fanbase" isn't going to decide the starter any more than Omar Kelly. Why does it get anyone's blood pumping that others don't believe in Beck?

    Beck has done NOTHING (last year or this year) to cause anyone to have faith in him. He still has time to improve, but right now, based on what we've seen, I think skepticism vis a vis Beck is highly in order. If he improves, great. I will be ecstatic and very pleasantly surprised. But my views won't have anything to do with the coaches decision on Beck.
     
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  39. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    John Beck's religion has nothing to do with his performance on the field and anyone who takes shots at him for it is showing their lack of knowledge of football (can't argue facts, turn to insults) and we won't allow this place to become one where frivolous arguments become the norm.

    Also, you say that when you are a professional athlete that "anything (personal or otherwise) is fair game". Does that mean that a player's family is fair game? If a player has a child with developmental disabilities, does that make the kid "fair game" as well? Does that have anything to do with the player's performance on the field? I think not.

    And the criticism of Carter was justified, I didn't read every comment made but Quincy brought that on himself with his drug use which did have an impact on his career. There is a major difference between drug use (for which Carter pretty much lost his NFL career) and a player's religion (which has no impact on his game).

    Show me where any of that was said? I've been critical of Beck and I've seen plenty of the people that you call "Beckers" criticize him as well. It's the completely bias bullcrap and "scum and base" arguments that people object to.

    And if I saw that I would offer caution and question the blogger's ability to evaluate what he sees. Fact is I haven't seen that so far, and anyone who says that Beck is the next Marino is jumping the gun by alot.

    First of all, I care. It's the job of the ThePhins staff to make sure that the quality of the conversation here is above that, to make sure that the wild accusations and petty bickering doesn't happen here. When you see a guy who is supposed to be a professional writer show an obvious bias that is stirring up nonsense among fans (some of who may post here), then I am going to speak out before it becomes a problem.

    If this was happening to another player, I would speak ot just the same. You never addressed Omar's opinion on Hagan and how it changed overnight once Sparano said that Hagan was doing so well.

    And you also never addressed my question on what your username was on the other site so I could go back and check your posts like you invited me to do. SunCoastFinFan does not exist on that other board, so what was your handle?

    As was stated before, Beck was put in a very unfavorable position last year, a year in which the plan was to keep him on the bench. He didn't play well but some of that can be directly attributed to his surrounding cast, just like it would for any other player. What Beck does from here on out will determine his career path and nothing that anyone here says is going to change that. But the unnecessary comments and bickering needs to stop so we can have honest and knowledgable discussions.

    What I would like to know is why don't I see you criticizing the other QB's in camp that haven't been doing well either? Where is the concern that Miami QB's as a whole yesterday went 2-22 at one point? Where is the concern that the OL is struggling? Where is the objective observation that Beck and Henne for the most part have been playing with different levels of surrounding talent throughout these practices? If the universal opinion is that the Miami QB's have all done poorly, where is the concern that Henne and McCown haven't "shown us anything"? Where is the knowledge that says that offenses are generally always behind the defenses at this time of year in terms of preparation and effectiveness?

    Or is it all about Beck?
     
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