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Will we be able to rebuild the OLine before we have to get rid of Tannehill ?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dolphinzdawgg, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I don't know. There sure seems to be a lot of confusion about it. Which in itself is a problem.

    All I know is that players and Tannehill himself have a problem with it, so it needs to be fixed.
     
  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    There is no wrong. It's opinion.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ummm....

     
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  4. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    top 7
     
  5. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Nah, that's wrong.
     
  6. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Never heard such a stupid question before. You want an exact percentage now? Since when has that ever been a stat in the NFL or been discussed among analysts or anybody else? You're just trying to create a smoke screen because you've been called out on so much bull. Again how many contending teams have bad or average QB play in the NFL right now? How many super bowls teams had bad or average QB play? The Broncos are an outlier. Like Trent Dilfer and the Ravens. Weren't you the guy last night who claimed Tannehill was top 5 in completion percentage? When he is 20th in that? http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/completionPct

    How much more bull you going to be called out on?
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Explain what percentage of a given win is because of the QB. I want to see the math. Show your work.
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So...teams can win without elite QB play? And teams can lose WITH elite QB play?

    Which is easier to get: a team with few weaknesses, or an elite QB?
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Elite QB hands down. Is harder to get. My bad


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How many contending teams have below average play from both run AND pass blocking, below average play from their defense in points allowed, below average play from special teams, and below average coaching, at all levels of the different units? How many Super Bowl teams?

    It's not simply QB, no matter how badly you want it to be.
     
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  11. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Man this thread has brought out the worst in everyone. :lol:

    I'm out. Neither side is going to change their argument. Enjoy your weekends. Go Dolphins!
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    See, I think this is the crux of the argument. One side says "Tannehill isn't elite, so we need to keep looking." If that's your argument, fine. The other side says, "Tannehill is good enough to win with, if we have a decent team. Further, Tannehill looks really good when he has average play from an oline." We would rather have a good team. That doesn't mean we need All-Pros at every position. It means we need a solid team, and that's how you contend year in and year out.
     
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  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    False choice.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He didn't offer a choice.
     
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  15. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    My exact quote was 5-7.
     
  16. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    lol again the point is it is an outlier. How many teams win without good QB play? How many teams win the super bowl without good QB play? You people are hilarious. Well a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. LOL!! Joe Flacco is a good quarterback. Those Ravens teams with those defenses and Jamaal Lewis and later Ray Rice running the ball never sniffed the post season. After Flacco comes in they were a regular contender and won a super bowl. Quarterbacks take you over the top. You can have all the other pieces in place but without the quarterback most of the time you still don't win. Flacco is a top 10 quarterback and even better player in the postseason. The Jets have a good defense, WRs, and Chris Ivory is playing well but without an elite QB they are barely over .500. So again how many teams win the super bowl without elite qb play? How many of the contenders in the NFL right now don't have good quarterback play? Not very many. And how many of the past super bowl teams didn't have a good QB?
     
  17. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Correct. Again the Tannehill crowd misrepresents the other side.
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Having a preference inherently indicates a choice.
     
  19. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Those issues need to be fixed but Tannehill is also one of those issues. Nice try on the smoke screen though. They are all an issue. It isn't one or the other. If Tannehill were playing good then I would excuse him from blame. But he isn't.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then how is it possible for it to be a false choice if he has a preference between two things?

    He accurately stated both sides of the given discussion. Based on those two sides he made a choice. He didn't say that those are the only two choices in existence about the given subject matter.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I'm saying there is no need to be a choice between the two. Improving one thing does not prohibit improving other things. I'm not sure why someone would want to improve the QB but not OL, or vice versa.
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If W/L record is a QB stat then Tannehill should get all the blame. If not, then that means games can be won or loss outside of his control. If factors outside of his control can cause a win or loss, then how is he responsible for them?

    Don't react & freak out, just think this through....

    The most important part of a car is the engine. If my car won't go because the transmission is shot, so I can't get from point A to point B is it my engine's fault? No. Does that mean when I take the car to the shop, I have the mechanic replace the engine? Could my engine need service? Yes absolutely but the problem was not my engine.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    As I pointed out, he didn't say one prohibited the other, which means he didn't offer a false choice.
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If one believes Tannehill is good enough to win with, even if not elite, why would one recommend upgrading the QB position at the expense of other parts of the team, that clearly need more improvement than the QB?
     
  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    "Good enough to win with" is a non-sequitor IMO. Gibril Wilson once won a SB. Trent Dilfer once won a SB.

    Beyond that, if 'upgrading' a player or position entails some type of additional 'expense', then I don't believe that is an upgrade. If you are able to 'upgrade' Tannehill, that means you have replaced him with another player that is adding more value.
     
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  26. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    We need slightly better than decent to win with Ryan at this point. He rarely does anything that impacts a football game.


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  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He is given one play. That play has quite a few variations to choose from. He is also not allowed to completely change the play call.

    What is wrong is, hes only given two total options, usually one run, and one pass. That was never confirmed with the quotes to Tannehill. Like I said, Gannon, Barry is confused.

    This is all very simple. Tanny is given one playcall. From that single playcall, he's given a lot of flexibility. He is not allowed to change that playcall, but he has free reign to choose within the play call. This is not your typical playcall. Even Bill Belichick knows this, just by watching film (unless he has a bug in the locker room). None of the quotes above refute that. Lazor has confirmed it.
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Umm, that's the false choice lol.
     
  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I doubt very much tannehill calls protection schemes. Usually, the way it works is a qbs responsibility is to identify where the pressure will come from and then usually the center will make the line call although you van have the guards and tackles making calls too amongst themselves. The chess match an offensive line plays prior to a snap is very fascinating and much more sophisticated than most people realize
     
  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not clear from Barry Jackson's article who makes the protection calls so my mistake about Tanny changing it, but Gannon noted they aren't allowed to so I was rebutting that. So it is possible Tanny is identifying it, and relaying that to the line, and they adjust.

    Rich Gannon is just full of chit here not knowing what he's talking about. Saying If tanny can't change protections ...

    But what is not said in Jenning's quote is that "play" has a ton of variations in it. Confirmed by Lazor and elsewhere.

    Campbell here saying prior to the newer system, Tanny did get them into the right protections:
     
  31. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Usually checking out of a play gives you an option of checking into a running play, an inverse passing play (if its a deep pass you check into a designated short pass i.e.because of a blitz lets say) or tuck the ball and run. depending on the defense none of those options might be good options though which is why audibling is much more effective. Also what's amazing is lazoe has alot of plays where tannehill is not allowed to check out of regardless of the defense
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quite possible when given all of those options before he made terrible decisions. More than possible, it is very likely.

    Listen, we all like to think Tanny is a real smart guy and he is, but book smart and football smart is completely different. and I think his on field in the moment decisions have not been graded out well.
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The problem with that is its all conjecture. You cant possibly know what he should be doing or not. The fact that lazor pointed to four iirc plays where tanny checked out tells me at least half of the plays lazor calls tanny isn't allowed to change. Either that or lazor is the greatest coach ever if he's only wrong 4 out of 60 plays
     
  34. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    One area tanny does need to improve however is pre snap blitz recognition. Either that or he has too much faith in his oline
     
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  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I doubt even the biggest Tannehill backers can find a way of accusing Ryan of thinking well on the field.

    As stupid as it is, sounds like giving him more options was too much for him to process mentally.

    Thats not encouraging.


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  36. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    When a team has a QB that is somewhere around 20-25 in the league four years in, there is NO other position that needs more improvement than QB.

    By this philosophy we would still have Chad Henne at QB. His first two years as a starter he led Miami to a 6-8 record and a 7-6 record without Miami being a great team.
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Or he didn't run through all 60 plays? I don't think they were going down a line item list were they?

    It's based on more than a little conjecture. Maybe some sources. ;) Hey you have a club level badge, but I don't see you in there are you current?
     
  38. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm amazed how many times a free rusher just goes by.
     
  39. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Dealing with semantics and of course hurts the argument that Tannehill is a victim of the play-calling by Lazor who doesn't run the ball enough and Tannehill isn't allowed to audible. So if using the word "check out of a play" is comforting and allows the continuation of how Tannehill suffers because of the handcuffs Lazor puts on him...ok, whatever.

    Lazor, in his presser yesterday, specifically used the word "audible" when Tannehill changed a play from run to pass in the Eagles game. Lazor said he thought it happened 4 times against the Eagles. By definition an audible is a "change in the offensive play called by the QB at the line of scrimmage."

    Coach Campbell stated Tannehill used to have more options, but the rhythm of his passing was affected so they removed some of those options and he throws it better now. Sounds like Tannehill's play didn't earn him the right to continue to audible as you define it.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What? The oline play is clearly wise than QB play, as is the play of corners and linebackers. If you are spending resources at QB, then you can't spend them at places that are bigger needs.
     

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