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Questions still remain at QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-O, Nov 26, 2015.

  1. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    That very much missed the point, WADR.
     
  2. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    And there's the rub, right, because any franchise QB can be successful in any system.

    To use an extreme analogy, Marino didn't even know the offense when he first started, they had Nat Moore calling the plays in the huddle, and later on in his career he was interviewed by Walsh, who was infatuated with Dan, and started asking him "when your in X and the CB does Y what are you looking for...", and Dan says, "look coach, I just look for the open guy, and hit him..."

    That is an extreme example because Marino was a singular talent, but the gist remains, you put a real QB on the field and he knows what to do, every other QB needs a bit more time than Dan did, but once you get on that horse, you're in that saddle, and Tanne has been on that horse nearly 4 years now, and still can't get comfortable in that saddle.
     
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  3. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I'll let those guys speak for themselves.

    My basic point is that that Wilson would not do significantly better than Tannehill playing under the circumstances our guy plays under, as a high volume passer who lacks a credible or consistent run game.

    Tannehill threw 58 times on Sunday, his 5th game of 44+ attempts this year. Wilson has never thrown 44 times, his carer high is 41, in week one of this year. While Tannehill throws 37 times on average from 2013 forward, Wilson has only attempted 37 passes twice in that span, only 3 times in his career.These are two QBs playing completely different games.

    Not only does Wilson throw fewer passes, he has a strong running game that generates favorable down/distance and coverages, ample play action opportunities, plus a defense that routinely holds opponents in the teens. Again. Two totally different games.

    I'm not saying Tannehill is the better QB, only that Wilson would struggle too if he had to play in Miami.
     
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  4. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow... Great post. Pretty much how I feel . The numbers you just showed would be alarming for anyone playing QB . Wilson is really a very good player, I liked him and would've been fine drafting him.. That being said .. I am all in on trying to fix THIS situation that we have with OUR QB.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I hear where you're coming from.

    My question is, do you think Wilson helps open up the running game for Lynch and Rawls?

    Here's another. Do you agree that throwing less passes on average demands efficiency?

    If you agree that he does help open the running game and is an efficient passer, don't those things help the defense? The Seahawks defense was clearly amazing regardless, but you get what I mean.


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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's not one or the other. The passing game helps the run game, and the run game helps the passing game be more efficient.
     
  7. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Wilson reciprocates though. Tannehill hardly ever does.


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  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    2nd highest qb rating of all time.

    Because he's a system qb.
     
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  9. DW2

    DW2 Member

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    Same old argument. Man, that gets old. When Tanneclown got sacked for a safety against the Eagles, he never saw the LB blitzing. NEVER SAW HIM!!! How could he not see him? That's where a QB has the feel for the game. In fact, I believe he had Sims open in the flat, due to the blitzing LB, HAD HE LOOKED! Aside from that, fast forward 1 week against the Cowboys; same situation only we are blitzing from the 1 and Romo has his back to the goal posts. We blitz and almost sack him for safety....but there are 2 things Romo did to avoid the sack/safety: 1)HE LOOKED!!!! Not a bad idea to take a glance to your blind side when in the endzone. Romo SAW our blitzing LB and ...here's part 2--he MADE A PLAY...he simply spun out of what would have been sack/safety and then he threw the ball to the open player, in this case I believe it was McFadden and the safety was avoided.
    But Tanneclown just sits there clueless to the idea that there could POSSIBLY be a blitzing LB coming from his left sife. I mean, seriously?? Tannehill is terrible, period. He'd make a decent backup, but that's about it.
     
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  10. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is yes, Wilson is a threat and that helps hold the back side defenders on run plays, especially from the shotgun. He also affects the coverages that defenses can use, man coverage being especially risky. His scrambling slows down pass rushers who prefer getting up the field quickly and he often forces defenses to use a spy, helping create space for his WRs. He's a good player with a unique skill set that is hard to prepare for and play against.

    His only real weakness is height and ability to throw from the pocket. A weakness that few teams ever get the chance to exploit. Wilson throws 25-28 tines on average. I haven't done a study but I'd say about a third of those are play action and or moving pocket. Another handful or so are plays where he ditches the play design and looks to make something happen with his feet. He's only standing in the pocket to throw 12-15 times a week. Seattle does a tremendous job of keeping him in his comfort zone.
     
  11. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    It was a CB not a LB, but yeah, Tannehill has to be taking a peek over there when he's dropping back into his own end zone.
     
  12. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    2013 the super bowl winning year:

    NSIDE THE POCKET

    322 attempts
    213 completions
    2,568 yards
    20 TDs
    5 INTs
    66.1 completion percentage
    8.0 yards per attempt
    6.2 TD percentage
    1.6 INT percentage
    104.7 passer rating

    OUTSIDE OF THE POCKET

    153 attempts
    87 completions
    1,313 yards
    9 TDs
    4 INTs
    56.9 completion percentage
    8.6 yards per attempt
    5.9 TD percentage
    2.6 INT percentage
    93.9 passer rating


    I haven't been able to find his 2014 numbers but I keep hearing this weakness as passing from the pocket, the stats don't reflect this. And his 2013 offensive line was TERRIBLE
     
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  13. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    No, he absolutely was not . The LB was well aware of his duty to cover Sims on the blitz play and had him in his sights the whole play. Trust me, I watched that play over and over to try and come up with a reason why THill never saw the blind side blitzer ( which, by the way, I never could figure that one out), and in doing so I noticed Sims was not wide open.
     
  14. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I was careful to point out that teams don't get an opportunity to take advantage of his weakness.
     
  15. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But he had a 105 rating in the pocket. You're calling this a weakness. It's a 105 rating.
     
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  16. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    A buddy of mine who is a Broncos fan sent me this text.

    "On Draftkings I am starting Devante Parker. Wow. Tannehill REALLY hated Lazor."

    I am thinking we are going to see the REAL Tannehill this weekend.

    Maybe he will suck, or maybe he will go off.

    Sunday at 1pm we will find out!
     
  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    :lol: OMG. This still won't matter. It's like the Allegory of the Cave.
     
  18. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Welcome back!
     
  19. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Anyone watch Seattle play Pittsburgh last week? Steelers did a stellar job keeping him in the pocket. So he just sat back there and ripped throw after throw dowm the seams and up the sidelines to those mighty-mite WRs.

    21/30 345yds 5TD 0int. 70% comp at 11.5ypa, 147.9 passer rating.
     
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  20. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Miami doesn't have one of those.
     
  21. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    The point is Wilson does what is needed against the defense to make plays. IF pocket is clean he stays there, if it breaks down (which it often does) he rolls out.
     
  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    What do you think he will do?

    I think his play will be exactly the same as always. His main issues are not because of Lazor.
     
  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    The point, for some bizarre reason, has been that Wilson is bad from the pocket. He clearly is not. However, it's totally demented that every Tanne thread, after about 20 pages, turns into a Tanne vs Wilson debate. Very bizarre.
     
  24. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Like debating a hot dog vs. prime rib.
     
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  25. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Of course you don't think he will be better. You have been on the anti-Tannehill brigade from day one.

    The main issue is the OL, they can't block anybody. That's a problem. Now you add that to play calls that most of the time call for a short pass and relies on the WR breaking 3 or 4 tackles, you can see where the problem really lies.

    But you will keep blaming the QB, and that's fine. it's your opinion.

    I want to see what happens Sunday and see if there is balanced play calling.
     
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  26. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Just checking out the latest ranking on NFL.com

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000593225/article/qb-index-who-has-risen-fallen-since-week-1

    # 28 just behind Gabbert...who would of thunk it at the beginning of the year.

    Moved down: Throw on Ryan Tannehill's 2012 tape, and then watch this year. What has improved? The Bill Lazor marriage fell apart fast, and Tannehill sounds happy about it. The next Dolphins coach's prime job will be improving Tannehill because his next three base salaries are guaranteed.
     
  27. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Look guys, I will not debate this. You have your opinions and nothing is going to change that. You have your opinion and I have mine.

    Time will tell.

    See ya Sunday!
     
  28. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    So you thought these were a result of the OL?

    :07 Second mark...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7RtMiMa1w4

    And 1:05 mark...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmSrRgaQrPQ

    Sure, I believe what you are saying :) great insight.
     
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  29. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's why every Samsung commercial mentions the iphone.
     
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  31. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Took about one minute for me to the look that up.

    So what you are saying is the interceptions are a residual affect from previous jail break blitz's.

    Sure, I believe you :) great insight.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the thing is some of us dont need to reminded, some do, some of us have been thinking this argument has been ridiculous since he was coming out of college, the game last week is no revelation, only extremely predicatble, its what great players do...once they achive a certain level of play {which in his case he's played at the highest level, on the road, in playoff atmoshere, individually} I know its there when I need it, and even more important, what that team would look like if I get the correct supporting cast, because I know what im gonna get from the qb..has nothing to do with the other parts...evaluate in isolation, dont even look at the other parts, just watch movement, the quickness, the agility, the touch, the anticipation, the recognition of situation, and last but not least, when to break and run for a first down...a skill that most do not appreciate and have a hard time of quantifying its importance...

    imaging the rating if the rushing yardage, ypc, and points were added to his passer rating..
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Prez once told me that soon his legs will be no use to him, then what?
     
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  34. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about what I see when watching him play. I've seen all of his 2012-14 games multiple times, focusing on his play specifically. Besides Tannehill I've watched no other QB as much as Wilson.

    You'll probably need to watch overhead/coaches views to really get a feel for what I'm trying to describe. Otherwise we are talking in circles.
     
  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    All out blitz by GB vs Matt Stafford......easy TD pass. Its been disgusting watching all these QB's pass by Ryan in 2015.


    GET BETTER!!
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah sh%%, he's in the twenties at this point..dont forget about alex smith
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sorry but can you reiterate what your trying to say about wilson?
     
  38. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    He is absolutely in the twenties at this point, heres to hoping Lazor's handcuffing was a bigger issue on his overall game than we realized.
     
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  39. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You see Rodgers getting out of the pocket on his own and hitting for two HUGE touchdown passes to win?
     
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  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, I've seen plenty of franchise QBs throw picks just as bad as those. The first, though, was directly a result of Tannehill trying to force the ball to THE ONLY GUY past the sticks, not to mention, EVERY DAMN RECEIVER was in the same quarter of the field. Not one went to the right side of the field.

    Not sure what you're trying to prove with those two plays.
     

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