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what is really wrong with RT17?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dullfandan, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. dullfandan

    dullfandan Active Member

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    i been thinking about this for a while now...

    under philbin the first couple seasons RT17 seem to be progressing fine, the offense was moving the ball...

    RT17 was getting sacked and we had no run game or just simply wouldnt run the ball yet we were an 8-8 type of team..

    the defense has been jekyll and hyde...

    new wr's? jesus we were more productive with wallace hartline and the other guy...

    oline issues? seems like the same amount of time for RT17 in the pocket as last year...

    RT17 not running enough? maybe!!! when he is involved in the run game he seems to gain confidence...

    unstable coaching staff?

    RT17 has his his ceiling or has hit a wall?

    David Carr syndrome?

    something is wrong with him because at one point in his career we all thought "finally we have a productive QB that need help" but now we are saying hes done and looking for his replacement....

    he is a mystery..
     
  2. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Bill Lazor happened.
     
  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't aware that there was an issue...
     
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  4. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I'm surprised no one has made a thread on this yet.
     
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  5. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with Tannehill, he just is who he is.

    Was never a top QB in college. Over-drafted b/c the "so-called" experts claimed he had potential. He has never displayed the attributes top level QBs possess.

    There are only so many QBs that reach elite level at the QB position. Tannehill just isn't one of them. So he isn't a top 20 QB in the world. Doesn't make him bad, just means it is time for Miami to move on.
     
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  6. caliphinfan

    caliphinfan Active Member

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    i think all those hits are starting to finally take its toll. he might be ruined now. we shouldnt be shocked by this. he has been taking some big time hits. the last safety comes to mind. i believe we now have a broken qb.its a shame too. i dont blame him though. he was a real warrior but no man can sustain such hard hits and continue to function at a high level.
     
  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    He can't pass protect or catch the ball. Also is not a very cerebral QB. Lacks a feel for immediate pressure


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hahaha!

    Lacks a feel for immediate pressure.

    I'm dying over here!
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ryan Tannehill is a victim of his surroundings, if not for his OL, OC, WRs, defense he would be playing better than any QB in the league. Ryan has done nothing wrong, besides be surrounded by mediocrity. He is an amazing QB.
     
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  10. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    You dont like him, I repsect that.

    What I don't understand is how you're so confident in your stance on Tannehill when it's obvious you haven't really done your homework.
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill has the same problem today that he did in college and even high school...he loses his cool and panics. When the team has a lead and he can relax on the field, you see a 100ish QBR player that can hit most routes and make good decisions. But any time he's forced to play well (like in December, against the Bills/Jets, etc.) or playing from behind, all that confidence disappears and he can't process the field quick enough. That means missing receivers or going to the dump-off without reading the field, standing flat-footed in the pocket, and generally making poor post-snap reads.

    In other words, Tannehill has 100% of the physical skills to be the absolute best QB in the league, and that's exactly why Ross and a few others have fallen in love with him. But the mental toughness is not there and honestly, that's not something that can be coached. If anything, the coaches trying to help him make adjustments in game-time situations only rattles him even further...and he is never going to be the QB that we want him to be. It sucks because he's a super tough kid with ridiculous potential, but he can't conquer that mental side.

    What was that TV show last year with Dr. D working with celebrities and sports franchises? That's his only hope, a sports psychologist (if such a thing exists).
     
  12. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Really? I have a feeling I have watched just as much of Ryan Tannehill as you...I also understand what Im watching. Because I have little confidence in Ryan at this point, I haven't done my homework?? Wrong.
     
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  13. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree...he can catch. Would have added most value to this team had Miami made him a WR.

    Perhaps it's not too late?
     
  14. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    This is a bullseye post, it's time to move on he is not a franchise QB.
     
  15. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he a Wr his first 3 yrs in college then switched to QB?
    maybe thats part of his problem..hasnt played the position consistently long enough.

    i was a supporter before but the last month my views are slightly changing. I'm giving him 1 more year
     
  16. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Arm chair superstars who never set foot on a football field (aside from being in the marching band) know more than coaches in the NFL. This is great!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    This message board in a nutshell. Many think Ryan should be able to audible...2 OC's think he shouldn't of. So if the coaches are lite years smarter than the fans, that reasoning I guess has no leg to stand on
     
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  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yup. Like those who think Lazor and Sherman held Tannehill back.
     
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  19. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Please don't bring up this audible bull**** anymore.
     
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  20. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    The Dolphins are .500 without Philbin, about the same as they were with him sooo, nice try. What I said was that the TEAM was not good, it wasn't a coaching issue. The latest scapegoat was Lazer and how'd the offense look last week? I guess Tannehill is next.

    Didn't mean to offend you though. How about 3, can you name 3 pass plays the Dolphins run? 4 verticals is one, double slants, bubble screen.

    Protection wise, they use FAN and BOB quite a bit. Google them if you're unfamiliar.
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why, its a legitimate issue.
     
  22. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill seems to take a tad long to process what is going on. I think this adds to his lack of confidence on some throws, which is odd, because early in his career, he had these "wow" throws between two, three defenders that gave me as a fan confidence we had our guy.

    The question (I think) is WHY is he taking a long time to process what's happening on the field? Not always, but it is certainly there. Is he over thinking? Does he not trust himself? I don't think so, because he has done it in the past.

    Personally, I think he was coached not to take chances to cut down on turnovers. And it's been pounded into him to the point that it just doesn't seem like he is 'playing football' anymore. There are times to be conservative, and there are times to take chances. He doesn't seem to be taking chances anymore, specifically over the middle. I think he has pressured himself (or has been pressured) to not make mistakes (not merely minimize them). That pressure takes a toll. He seems like he's over thinking the whole deal and not playing.

    One thing I do like about him is that he works on the little things. Last year, it was throwing from different angles. This year, the touch on some throws. In his defense, the line doesn't always allow him the opportunity to practice on some of these things in real games. That lack of in-game reps to perfect those nuances hinder his development. But we don't have time for him to perfect little things. It's time for him to just play.

    So his being coached a particular way, which isn't necessarily wrong, and add storm of things that aren't going particularly well (coaching changes, line issues, etc.), and haven't been for a while, and you compound his being "underdeveloped" (so to speak).

    Learning a new system may not be too much of an issue for him because I think he's cerebral enough to learn one quickly. It's his seeming unwillingness to improvise with regularity (he has the ability because I've seen it done) may be his biggest enemy. He needs to play football, not play "perfect".

    This play perfect mentality has stunted his growth as a QB, and I suspect it came from the staff. There are some things they did right with Tannehill (working on the small things), but the thing they got wrong was not letting go of the reigns. They wanted a good soldier. He complied. But because he is one, it unfortunately held some things back in his overall development. I think having Taylor as OC could help Tannehill in the long run because he may feel more comfortable to speak up about certain things with Taylor than with the previous coaches. He needs to not worry about making mistakes because he's making them now with the way he has been playing. I think he could have a helluva last few games because he might just be able to just play football. That is if his head doesn't first get into the way.
     
  23. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    *you're

    :shifty:
     
  24. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    :wasntme-sign:
     
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  25. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    You have literally described Chad Henne's experience as a Dolphin with Sparano and Henning talking about "chunk yards" but don't make a mistake philosophy.

    Tannehill and Henne play as Dolphins are very comparable...Tanne-henne and Henne-hill.
     
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  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Based on what? Tannehill trumps Henne in every statistical category. Like, it's not even close.

    People only compare the two because Henne was the last hope as a franchise QB before Tannehill.
     
  27. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    I think its numerous things. the offensive system has been figured out and its not fooling anyone.he looks frustrated and i think he is pressing. i also think the contract probably has something to do with it. getting the **** kicked out of you for 4 seasons takes a toll as well.
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol...this is freakin hilarious, do you know how fu##in bizarre it is that our qb has not even thought about breaking the friggin pocket one time in the whole friggin season..think about that real hard..dont dismiss it, just think about it..

    you cant win in this league without the ability of the qb to make a play out of nothing..

    imagine on the road, were down a score, you expect him to drop back and just sit in one spot and win the game, shoot, 1st down, incompletion, then you have 2nd and long, he picks up 5 on a short route, now its third down...the defense knows exactly where the qb is gonna be, how do I know that?, because the fu%%in guy has not attempted to run to convert anything all damn season..

    this is his biggest problem, and I'm so tired of trying to make people understand...please dont give me this BS story that awwwwwww he was trained to stay in the pocket...lol..what a crock...put your damn feelers on and make a play to convert so the defense has to worry about multiple things when you drop...dumass.

    rectify that, and you might just make something of yourself, fix that, and you might just win the confidence of your teammates, apply that and you might become a better qb who's worth the money..cause right now your one dimensional *** is worth half, cause thats all your giving me, half a skill set.
     
  29. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    scrambling away from danger is something he really needs to work on.
     
  30. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Hey, Brady did it.
     
  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Perfect assessment of Tannehill. I think most Tannehill supporters perceive him as being much better than he is only because the Dolphins have had so many terrible QB's since Marino retired. By comparison to most of those QB's, Tannehill is certainly an upgrade. Yet when compared to the other starting QB's in the NFL today, Tannehill is merely average to below average.

    Just as many fans blamed the head coach and OC for the failed Henne experiment and then realized once Henne left the Dolphins and signed with the Jags that Henne never was a quality starting QB in the NFL. In a few years when Tannehill is a backup QB on another NFL team. Tannehill supporters will finally have to admit that he was overrated in Miami and he should have been replaced as the starting QB much sooner than he was.
     
  32. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Tbh, I was thinking of Henne. I intentionally didn't bring up his name, but yeah....
     
  33. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    What's wrong with Tannehill is that he is not completing passes on most of the more manageable 3rd downs like he did last year.

    On 3rd and 4-6 he's down from 63% completions and 7.6 ypa last year, to 47% completions and only 3.6 ypa.
    On 3rd and 7-9 he's down from 53.5% completions and 7 ypa last year, to 30% completions and only 4.1 ypa.

    On 3rd and short (1-3 yds), he's up in YPA (7.4 this year vs 4.7 last year), but his completion % is down from 63% to 50% (and he's on pace for 1/3 less opportunities).

    On 3rd and 10+ he's actually much better than last year, but it just isn't a situation we want to be in because even completions don't typically net 1st downs (across the league).
     
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  34. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Reminder about Tannehill's college career.

    In 2010 he started 6 games after Jerrod Johnson got benched. He didn't play exceptionally well (44th in Passer rating, 65th in ypa in the country), but the team was winning. They went 5-1 in those games, and there was cause for hope. So much so that his senior year Aggies opened as a preseason top-10 team. ...They proceeded to go 7-6, and Tannehill finished 56th in Passer rating and 67th in ypa. (Manziel came in the following year and promptly won a Heisman en route to a BCS bowl.)

    So 12-7 as starter, which is fine I guess, but certainly nothing special for the college level. A middle-of-the-road Passer with a concerningly low ypa. The team underachieved to the point where (surprise!) the coaching staff was fired after his senior season.

    It's all very familiar, and strikingly consistent with who he has been as a pro. The issue with RT is how people are projecting him to become someone he has never been.
     
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  35. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Except if Texas A&M lost when Tannehill started it was mainly because in those instances the defense gave up an average of 38.86 pts/game (would have been 117th best in 2011). The offenses still averaged 31.71 pts/game in those losses (would have been good for 35th in the country).

    The defense's performance in 2010 is the main reason Sherman got fired, not Tannehill.

    And that's not me saying Tannehill is or was a good quarterback, that's me saying drawing comparison between Texas A&M coaches being fired and and Miami coaches being fired is crappy support for an argument/point.

    Edit: Citation of Manziel's success as a dig at Tannehill is also ridiculous since it came under a different coach and system (a system that has produced extremely good passer ratings and ypa across multiple QB starters).
     
  36. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    I thought the only thing that truly made Tannehill special was that he was a WR playing QB. I had dreams of him running around like Vick and keeping defenders on their toes. Well that's obviously not happening and its showing in 8-8 records each year.The post above says it all Tannehill was on a good team in college and his first full season he goes 7-6 on a top 10 team and the next year a real QB comes in and wins a Heisman and almost a national championship.
     
  37. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Hey, even the excuses are the same too. "But the defense!" it's a distraction, and conveniently ignores the plain and simple fact that Tannehill did not perform well relative to his peers...again, just like in Miami. How many games can you really expect to win when your QB is performing at that mediocre level? If he plays better, they probably win more and the staff survives. Again people don't want to acknowledge how big an impact the qb really has.

    Is 35th in scoring supposed to be good/noteworthy for a preseason top-10 team, specifically in the high-scoring Big 12? Staff changed, yes, but Manziel immediately followed and dominated as a RS freshman with much of the same roster. To me that's concerning, but you're free to dismiss it, of course.

    Bottom line is that Tannehill's production/efficiency and statistical profile has essentially been the same for five seasons now...and people resist the idea that he is who he is.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    At what point can we all agree that pointing out actual issues is not making excuses.

    I mean is it really ridiculous to think a team can lose if the defense gives up over 30 points? Is that really an excuse for the QB now?
    Is it really ridiculous to say our oline sucks and that has hampered Tannehill's production? Is that really an excuse?

    Is it all just really that Tannehill sucks and is not worth even a 7th round pick? Does that really and truly make sense to everyone? Really? Isn't that making an excuse for why the team has struggled?
     
  39. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I never said anything about Tannehill being good or playing well enough, so most of your reply has no baring on what I was saying. And Manziel was playing in a system that produced 42.2 pts/gm (2009), 37.7 pts/gm (2010), 49.3 pts/gm (2011) so to say the roster was much of the same doesn't much matter when the system has shown to produce good results (and of course most of the roster is the same from one year to the next when there are 90 players on it at any given time and only about 22 players leaving in any given year).

    Texas A&M under Sherman never scored more than when Tannehill was the full time starter for the season - 39.1 pts/gm (2011). When Sherman teams previously had 25 pts/gm (2008), 32.8 pts/gm (2009), and 31.2 pts/gm (2010; 31.7pts/gm in the games where Tannehill played QB majority of the time).

    And again, that's not me saying Tannehill is or was good (or good enough), but maybe just maybe, Tannehill wasn't the reason Sherman was fired.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7304629/texas-aggies-fire-football-coach-mike-sherman

    Yet, Tannehill was 12-7 as starter, so Sherman without Tannehill at QB was 13-18.

    Of course Tannehill was the starter for the last 6 games, and main QB for the 6th win referenced there.

    But of course, it's just an excuse for me to cite the defense. :rolleyes: Not like it was a trend for Sherman's entire time or anything.

    But yea it's all excuse making about the QB. No one else can possibly be at fault.





    I have continually said that Tannehill has not played well enough (for what we need to be a sustained, successful team), so I wouldn't try and argue otherwise. But it's crap to say anything that doesn't cite Tannehill as the main culprit is just "excuses".


    Edit: And yes being 35th in scoring should be impressive when it is only losses being accounted for. Texas A&M in 2011 was 11th in the country in pts/game. However, maybe that's not pretty good for a preseason Top 10 team.
     
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  40. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    In time I think RT will be fine.
    The bad part though is that by then he will be wearing another uniform.
     
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