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Dolphins failed building this defense, which needs mass changes in 2016

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sceeto, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-kelly-column-1219-20151218-story.html

    ^IMO, this was one of the biggest mistakes of the off-season. This is just pure neglect. Stupid.

    :cry:

     
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  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Vernon wants more than Jerry Hughes at 5/44.
     
  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    He's not getting that here. Yikes!
     
  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    We need linebackers, corners, and another safety worth a dang.
     
  5. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Miami has put twice as many resources trying to build the offense the last five years. Of course the defense is getting old, lacks depth and star players.

    Quite the conundrum, despite all the resources Miami has invested in the offense it's still lacking. But as it stands now Miami pretty much "has to" address the defense in a big way this off season.
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Weird....you act as if spending resources automatically equals good players.
     
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  7. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    It obviously doesn't as we are below average at the QB position and OL.
    It definitely assured our defense would be depleted.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Our team isn't as far away as everyone thinks:

    Offense:
    QB = needs nothing
    RBs = need nothing
    WRs = need nothing
    TEs = could use a reliable pass catcher (not critical though)
    Oline = need just average guards and depth. We don't need stars here, just some average reliable guys, instead of the the crap we've had

    Defense:
    Dline = need an above average player at DE, (could be a not need if Wake and OV return)
    LBs = need an above average player at MLB
    CBs = our biggest need, but we only really need reliable starters on both boundaries, we don't need Revis level talent. (could be reduced if Lippett pans out, then we'd only need one starter and at least one back up)
    S = need an above average player to pair with Jones. We're not talking another Jones, just a Delmas without the injuries

    Special Teams:
    = needs nothing

    So, that means we need to go S & MLB & DE at the top of the draft or FA, then hunt for average guys at CB & Oline in the rest of the draft and/or FA. Unless OV & Wake return, then swap DE and CB for when to address them.

    This all assuming our need of new coaches is not only realized, but these guys turn out to be good.
     
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  9. Man-U

    Man-U New Member

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    Interesting that "shutdown corner" is defined as needing scheme and safety help.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  10. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Funny, Omar kills everyone on defense, but one guy, whom he makes excuses for.... Real shocker.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Brent Grimes has never been a shut down CB. He's an off man, zone guy, thrust into a shutdown role by necessity. I don't blame him at all.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, it's hard to get average play from your QB when his line is so far below average it's not even funny. It's hard to get average play when your OC continuously screws the QB and his line by going pass heavy by a wide margin every game.

    This is the sort of extremist viewpoint that I completely disagree with, and that I argue against, thereby earning me the "Tannehill-lover" nickname. If you truly believe Tannehill is below average, I don't know what to say. He may not be elite, but at worst, he's average, behind a well below average line.
     
  13. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    What if you're theory about the QB is wrong, because that's all it is, a theory.
    Need to resign Miller.
    Need to resign Matthews.
    You're OK going with Sims and Stoneburner? because they aren't paying Cameron 7.5 mil to come back.
    T also has to be in the works, with Albert and possibly James being injury concerns, getting a decent T needs to be addressed.

    CB has to be a the top of the list, and we need 2 at least, we need 2 LBs at least and S then we need DE.

    That's a lot of need on both sides of the ball, and you can't go assuming that every draft pick is going to work out, even the best talent evaluators don't do that, you could easily spend the entire draft on one side of the ball and still need help on that side, and resigning the players we need will eat up a good portion of cap space, or they will just be more holes to fill.
     
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  14. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The team is going to need to look at Guards and Tackles on offense. At the least, they need to find a better back-up Tackle than Fox. With Guard, FinD is right on, you want serviceable guys as opposed to high picks and expensive free agents. I think a high pick could be used but I think it's probably a 2nd at best.

    On defense, everything is up for improvement. If the thing you like the most in the 1st round is a FS, you take him. Same thing for LB, DE, and CB. The only defensive positions you'd want to avoid would be DT and SS if you can get away with it.
     
  15. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    How does every damm post turn into a tannehill debate.Jesus ****ing let it go!Topic is defence.
     
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  16. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Lol...extremist.

    Tannehill-lover (which all of sudden now seems to upset you) seemed a natural response to posts in which I and others were being called a Tannehill-hater, as well as much more harsh words, from the group of posters that clamor to make excuses for Tannehill's play. Wasn't meant as a put down to you, but if you take it that, okay. It was in reference to the group of posters that are Tannehill apologists replying with the same responses...OL, WR, RB, OC, HC, defenses fault. Any and all but Tannehill.

    Outside of Tannehill apologists one would be hard-pressed to find anyone thinking Tannehill is a top 20 QB.
     
  17. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Funny...QB needs nothing and two average G away from being a good offense. What was the name of the G that missed a wide open Landry for a TD on Miami's final drive that would have tied the game?

    Since Tannehill has audible privileges can't he audible from passes to run plays to balance out the play-calling? Or is Taylor handicapping him and only allowing him to audible from run plays to pass plays?
     
  18. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The only reason QB is not a need is because they are vastly overpaying Tannehill in 2016. I think going into the 2017 season, Tannehill will be gone and a new and cheaper QB of the future will be on the Dolphins.

    Assuming Miller is signed after the season, I agree the RB position is in good hands. If he doesn't resign and goes elsewhere, the RB position then looks like an area of need going into next season.

    I would love to keep Matthews because I think he is a quality WR, but they can't afford him and with Parker and Landry, keeping him probably won't be a priority. Jennings won't be in Miami next year and they need more production from Stills as the 3rd WR.
    Because of all the other needs on the team, WR doesn't appear to be a position of need going into the off season.

    I think Cameron could be much more effective in an offense more geared to throwing to the TE. Unfortunately he hasn't been effective in the Dolphins offense and he certainly won't remain in Miami with the money he is owed next year. The Dolphins will probably cut him, he will sign with the Patriots and have a great year as their #2 TE in 2016.

    Expecting the FO to find reliable guards and backups for the OL in one offseason is quite a stretch. Especially considering this organization hasn't been able to put together a quality OL in years.

    I think DE will end up being a big need going into next season. I doubt they will be willing to sign OV for the money he will command in free agency. Wake is getting up in age and it is hard enough to come back from an injury like his when you are 10 years younger. I think his best days are behind him and if he returns in 2016, it will likely be as a part time player for a lot less money.

    Jenkins can't seem to stay healthy and he is the only decent LB on the entire roster, IMO. This is a unit which needs to be completely rebuilt over the next few years and it starts with an impact MLB. Average at the most important position on the defense just doesn't fix the problem.

    I agree that the secondary, other than Jones needs to be completely overhauled. Again, this is going to take more than one off season.

    I see this rebuild of the team taking at least 3 years and that assumes the FO does a very good job in the draft and hit on their free agent signings.
     
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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What if your theories are wrong, because that's all they are, are theories?

    Why must I account for the possibly that my theories may be wrong and not any of you?
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Interesting.

    Tannehill misses one throw therefore he's the problem, but when the oline misses blocks they aren't.

    You just keep making sense.
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I didn't expect any of that. I merely pointed out what I think we need.
     
  22. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Because it's not a theory that Tanne isn't playing well, that's a fact, it's a theory that he will be a franchise QB with more help, as you suggest, even though that is the definition of not being a franchise QB.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No its a fact that no QB has ever thrived with a bad oline, bad oc, abandoned run game and not allowed to audible.

    So please justify your theory that if we fix some of that, he won't improve considering that we've already seen it happen, also a fact.
     
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  24. Man-U

    Man-U New Member

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    I think Metallica wrote a song about the QB position called "Nothing Else Matters". So close, no matter how far...
     
  25. LUDUPORCU

    LUDUPORCU New Member

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    Can't agree w/you completely.

    SUH is SUH, and we may have the behemoth DT to play next to him and provide MIAMI w/another STARKS-SOLIAI type combination inside. And w/our DEs, the MLB and OLBs should be able to run free, read, fill, and make plays etc.: the whole package. The problem is that (a) MITCHELL sucks (and is only playing to avoid embarrassment to whoever on the "Staff" wanted him--he's strictly 4th String); and (b), ditto, SUH's friend (d/r his name); and (c), our LB-ing corps is total and complete DICK, and until we have a top shelf MLB and at least ONE impact OLB, a potentially top shelf and dominating DL will go to waste.

    As things stand, I/m/o, we might not have a true, consistent "Starter" at LB on the entire roster. I hope that one of the rookies emerges as something special. But I won't be holding my breath.
     
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  26. LUDUPORCU

    LUDUPORCU New Member

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    MIAMI has NOT invested wisely in the O-Line, AT ALL!

    We all KNEW, going into pre-season, what was needed most of all...2 starter-quality Gs and a great MLB. Forget MLB for the moment. As to G, a top shelf veteran (MATHIS, F/A from Philadelphia, I believe) was just SITTING THERE, in F/A, and despite having the capspace, the only "offer" MIAMI saw fit to make wasn't even an Offer: just an insult!!

    So now, a very talented team is HOPING to rise to mediocrity, and go 8-8!!! And every week, we watch MIAMI's "$90 Million man" get the sh*t kicked out of him, week after week. If ROSS sees fit to TOLERATE such stupidity, then he deserves to go Bankrupt!
     
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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Please enlighten us as to these franchise quarterbacks who just will teams to win, with bad receivers (like early in Tannehill's career), bad oline, bad scheming, bad coaching, and no run game.

    Like, you guys throw or these statements, with zero qualifications. Look at a guy like Rivers, a guy who is arguably elite, but at worst, just below the elite guys, and his team can't win, even with him playing at an elite level.

    The point is, the game isn't only about the quarterback. If it were, we'd just stick quarterbacks out there, and see who could drop more balls into garbage cans in the endzone from various distances.
     
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  28. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Miami has also NOT invested wisely in the QB position, AT ALL!

    Overdrafted a QB that led the preseason top 10 team to out the top 25 with a 7-6 record. Had perhaps the best OL in the country and a talented group of WRs and finished 56th in the nation in QB rating out of 115 QBs. His second half QB rating would have placed him 94th out of 115. Tannehill finished 67th in YPA at 7.1 (that sucks at the college level). No GWD while his team lost 4 games in the 4th quarter.

    Sounding familiar yet.

    Miami through all their eggs in one basket and they have gotten a little rotten...2 HC and 3 OC later. Tannehill has regressed this year when he wasn't that high up the totem poll to begin with.

    Meanwhile Miami hasn't invested in developing a young QB to step in and made a boneheaded move to give Tannehill a guaranteed contract worthy of a top 10-15 QB, not the 25th or so QB he is.
     
  29. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Why? Grimes has been awful too... don't need to sugar coat it.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    do you think if we were a better offense on third down we wouldnt have to abandon the run game
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Brady..Rogers...Berger...Wilson...Luck...Romo...ive seen all of them take the field down by a score and orchstrate the offense to points, while making individual plays on the drive.
     
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  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No. Mist teams pass on third and long.

    I think if we ran the ball more on 1 & 2 we'd have a better chance of converting.

    I wish you would explain why its all of a sudden some mystery magical notion that running more and better pass blocking improves not just QB play, but the whole offense's play....and even our w/l record.

    I feel like I'm saying we need air to breathe, and you guys are going, "AIR!!!!???!?!??!?!??!? Who the hell breathes air, is it these fish? Yeah thought so."
     
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  33. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Hell with all the rotation I feel like I'm still watching a preseason defense.
    No chemistry on that side of the ball. We need a mike to man the middle and take charge.
     
  34. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    none of these qbs has been on a team as poor as miami. try again
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That has nothing to do with my question.

    But, I've seen Tannehill make great individual plays, only to have his receivers let him down. For instance against Carolina a couple years ago, when Tannehill scrambled and threw deep, only to have it fall harmlessly between Wallace's hands, or, a very recent example, Landry with the drop or Parker with the terrible effort.

    Tannehill has made plays throughout his career, and been let down often, either by receivers not completing the play, or stupid penalties by people negating plays by Tannehill.
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No.
     
  37. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i think our defense must get one good player at every level of the defense minimum. one DL, one LB, one DB. Add the fact we have to get one OG and one OT minimum on offense and you can see Tannenbaum has his work cut out for him. Thats just for this year and that doesnt solve all the problems. It just gets us to the point where we can compete. The year after we would have to add another player to each level on defense to make it championship quality and probably two more olinemen. Thats ten players over two years. I think I would go the route of free agency for OG and DE since we're going to need immediate impact in those areas. The rest I would try to draft.

    FREE AGENCY
    OG - KELECHI OSEMELE - Ravens
    DE - Greg Hardy - Cowboys

    Draft

    OT - The problem I see here addressing this need is we really need a LOT prospect but imo most of the guys available to us will be ROTs. If we get a good OG in FA then I might wait for the 3rd round before drafting someone like Joe Haeg (North Dakota State) or Willie Beavers (Western Michigan)

    OLB - Jaylon Smith, Myles Jack would be considered for a 1st round pick but I think the quality is at CB in the first round. Its a tough choice. personally I love Smith's violence and think there is an outside shot he would be available since I think there will be a run on OTs and QBs early. If he was available I would strongly consider taking him. I will predict he won't so I would wait till round 2 to pick and there I would go after Sua Cravens (USC) or Joshua Perry (Ohio State)

    CB- Vernon Hargreaves III is the guy we should target with our #1. I'll assume Jalen Ramsey wont be available but I think Hargreaves might. Mackensie Alexander from Clemson would be the next option.

    so my draft board would look like this

    1st - CB Hargreaves III / OLB Jaylon Smith / CB Alexander/ OLB Jack
    2ND - OLB Cravens/ OLB Perry
    3rd - OT Haeg/ OT Beavers

    If we got my first picks and added my FA pickups we would add

    DE Greg Hardy
    OLB Sua Cravens
    CB Vernon Hargreaves III
    OT Joe Haeg
    OG Kelechi Osemele

    Not a bad offseason if it fell that way
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dont know what you mean when you say running more, each game is different, and the games dictates how much you run...yes, better pass protection will lead to better qb play and offensive production..
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    every qb in football can go back a couple years and show you when they made some plays..

    the threats have to be continuous, consistent, every drive..has to be in your dna, is your state of consciousness when your playing.
     
  40. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    No to Hardy. Big big no. He is time bomb and a cancer.
     

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