NFL.com's Greg Rosenthall has RT17 ranked #25 QB in NFL

FYI... here's the link for those of you who actually want to see what's going on out there. Scroll down a ways, you'll see the pics.

https://twitter.com/SiClancy/with_replies

 

So on 3rd and 18 this idiot Campbell has no Landry, Parker or Cameron even on the field????

Fire him the minute this garbage season is over.

 

Or Miller

 

Pathetic. He is no better than Philbin.

 

Miller only was in for 18 plays on offense. 18 of what appears to be 59.

 

We do consider all factors. We just feel he should've done more by now. We tend to become myopic looking at just the NYG game or on the flip side just the Baltimore game or whatever.

We can talk about coaches, the front office, the rest of the offense, the defense, special teams, but at some point we've gotta ask what we should expect out of him. Some swear he's so screwed we can't expect much. Myself and others believe it's a major cop out. He should've done more by now.


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Edit: I was mistaken.


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I get that...

What exactly would you have liked him to do on that 3rd and 18 play? What more can he do? Force a pass into double or triple coverage and turn it over? I'd love to hear that answer.

The fact is, this also isn't the first time we've seen something like this on offense. It's happened numerous times this season.

What more do you want him to do behind this OL, the way it's been all year, and the way it was yesterday? Lets just be realistic about the expectations... He's got things to improve on for sure, but we've done nothing to develop this QB that everyone knew was a project. If this team really wants to do something about the QB position, they should sign, or trade for an established one already. I don't trust this organization to identify, draft, or develop another one. Even with a new coaching staff... although I guess it depends who it is, but still...

 

That was a joke. No one really wants to see Matt Moore.

 

I edited the post because I was mistaken. Please ignore.


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Full disclosure, I missed all football games yesterday. Hung out with an old friend from out of town and others.

From what I've read, the OL was beyond terrible last game; more so than ever before. Nobody is arguing the OL isn't bad, we're saying other QBs have dealt with similar OLs to what we've had over the course of 4 seasons. Likely not yesterday in particular, but you get the point.


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The argument is NOT only about oline. The argument is that with an oline as bad as he's had, combined with the receiving corps for most of his career, and his poor coaching/scheming, the abandonment of the run game, and the lack of audibles, it created a situation that we are arguing very few, if any, could be successful in.

There's a reason we keep asking for a QB who has been successful when facing the same circumstances.

 

And all we're saying is that those QBs who overcome their bad olines (though few have ever been this bad) don't also have to overcome horrible OCs, an abandoned running game, and no real audible ability. Those are things that help mitigate horrible pass blocking that the other QBs have access to, to varying degrees, while Tannehill doesn't.

 

But what makes Tannehill unequivocally better than Cousins?

 

Its a non-sequitor. I think most that aren't fans of Tannehill believe that the coaches were hamstrung by Tannehill, he couldn't audible because he didn't earn it, the OL is made worse bc of Tannehill, etc. You're essentially asking someone to make an argument under the assumption that your argument is correct.

 

He doesn't have good pocket presence, scrambling ability, not enough explosive plays, doesn't compliment the running game. Not all his fault, but definitely part of the problem.


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It's not a non-sequitor. Just because Tannehill can't scramble like Barry Sanders, thereby minimizing the damage of our terrible oline, doesn't mean that he makes them worse. There is little disputing how bad our oline is. The Seahawks line isn't "better" simply because Wilson is better at hiding their terribleness, due to his escapability.

Tannehill cannot do what Wilson does. It's unfair to expect it. Tannehill needs average oline play, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

You can argue that he can't make lemonade out of lemons, but you can't argue he doesn't have good pocket presence, when he rarely has a pocket to work out of. You could argue that he's an idiot for continuing to trust his oline to block, when they've shown over three seasons that they can't or won't block.

He isn't going to escape pressure they way Wilson, Taylor, or Newton can, and to expect him to is unfair.

 

Oh please, hardly has a pocket to work out of? He's a statue out there. Rarely even sidesteps oncoming rushers let alone scrambles. His footwork is not good. He's not even half as good as Brady in his mechanics.


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Instead of avoiding it... take a look at the link, the play I'm referring to, and tell me what more you'd want him to do? The play in question doesn't have much to do with the OL. They actually did a decent job on the play.

Sometimes, there's just not the option to do more, that's happened more often than not over the last... how many years in Miami?

There's flaws in his game. There's major flaws in the team. We know that... but to say he's got to do more, or should have done more, is hard to do IMO because of all the other issues.

There's no right or wrong here, because the answer is in the middle IMO. There's enough issues on both sides. Neither helps.

 

Like I said, you're being extremely myopic and shortsighted. One play on 3rd and 18 is emblematic of what exactly?


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Like I said... take a look at the play, and tell me, what more should he have done? Don't keep avoiding it because it's not going to help you.

What does it show... How incompetent our coaching staff is? How bad our playcalls can be? How poor our use of our own personnel is? How fans expect the QB to "do more" when there's nothing more than really can be done? How completely bad this group is as a TEAM? How we can't get our of our own way?

I'm not sure what more you want other than to just keep banging your own drum on Tannehill.

I've shown, and several others have shown, and it's been discussed at great lengths in the club level of the site instances of plays where we've simply hung ourselves out to dry. If you choose to be shortsighted and ignore than and say certain players should "do more" than that's on you, not me. And before you go down that road, it's not about defending Tannehill.. it's about taking a look at what is actually happening on the field, away from the ball. We flat out suck. It's beyond one player, one coach, one unit of this team.

Plays just like the one in the example have happened all year. With only watching the game on TV yesterday, we've identified two such instances already. I'm sure further study of the tape will reveal several more as it tends to every single week. It's been happening all year long, not just this game, or the giants game etc.. etc... Come on...

 

And what we're saying is his pocket presence is bad and he doesn't scramble. Doesn't do enough to compliment the running game. It's not all on him but he doesn't elevate anybody.

 

In my short time here I have seen a select group who see things the way they want to see them. Facts do not interest them. I don't waste my time with them. Let them scream in silence.

 

I think there is very much dispute over how bad the OL is. I think some would say its in the bottom half of the league, while other would say its among the worst of all-time.

 

I mean it's 3rd and 18. Those are rarely converted because of how easy they are to defend. But what he should have done was hold it and step up to let guys shake loose. He was not under duress at all, plenty of time to let guys work down the field. He was too quick to check it down, imo. This is a good example of people's frustrations with Tannehill's lack of playmaking and hesitation to break a play's structure.

It's bad coaching, yes, but the QB could've done better.

 

I know what you're saying, but there's too many things outside his control for you to gauge that with any accuracy.

We do know for a fact, that when his line is average (not great, not even good) he can play at a top level. Its happened and it happened over a few games. That's real evidence.

 

Oh you mean another thing Tannehill couldn't do this season? The team is 2-2 against the NFC east and Tannehill playing bad or average in every one of them. Decent against the Giants and Eagles largely because he was playing the worst pass defenses in the league. And if it weren't for special teams and defense against the Redskins (only one offensive TD with the other being a Landry punt return) and Eagles this team would be.....0-4 against the NFC east. Even if this team were in the NFC east Tannehill and the Dolphins still wouldn't make the playoffs. Beat up on the NFC east. lmao at least Cousins is doing that. And he looked solid again yesterday against the Bills whereas Tannehill gets destroyed everytime he plays that team. And the last 3 weeks against poor defenses he has a grand total of one TD pass.

 

LOL!!

We know you.

 

It's a stupid question. What should he have done on 3rd and 18th? That's the play you're choosing to make a point about anything? Look up the definition of myopic. If your point is the coaching staff is bad, yes they are, but there's plenty of better examples.

 

He's also shown he can underwhelm and **** the bed when he should dominate. Does he show flashes? Yes. Is he inconsistent as hell? Yes.

 

I'm giving you things that actually happened and you're arguing it with your opinion of nebulous concepts.

 

Then explain why when we were saying his receivers were to blame, the front office agreed and got three new receivers. When we said it was the oline and the scheme, they fired the coach and then the offensive coordinator. How much you want to bet this off season is dedicated to the oline. So the guy in charge agrees with us and you guys who don't get paid disagree. I'll go with the guy who gets paid and his job is on the line

 

Cousins also has more passing yards on less attempts, better completion percentage, more yards per attempt, better QBR, and more total TDs. Is that enough for you now? And this is funny coming from a guy who said in another thread Tannehill is better than Bortles solely based on completion percentage. Yep that is the only stat you gave out in that conversation. Whereas Bortles has 9 more TD passes with 31, more passing yards, more yards per attempt, better QBR. Oh and he is a threat with his legs too running for 310 yards where Tannehill has 96. And the last 3 games Tannehill has been given the green light to run and escape the pocket and he still hasn't done that. Also Bortles has been sacked 41 times this season. More than Tannehill so don't give me that excuse. Both of these QBs are better than Tannehill. And they both play on teams with bad defenses, bad offensive lines, and teams that don't have much of a run game. Yet they are doing better and have their teams scoring more points. Jaguars 24.5, Redskins 22.6, Dolphins 19.9 points per game.

 

He should've dominated in some games where he was either underwhelming or flat out ****ty.

 

I can only guess at this point you literally don't understand the words I'm using. I'm not saying that to start crap, I just don't understand how you think a valid response to me saying you are using opinions based on nebulous concepts is by restating your opinion of nebulous concepts.

 

... It cannot be debated. It's very straightforward.

So you can simply state he has done very well with average OL play but I can't state the opposite.


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So at this point you aren't even forming your own opinion. That makes sense, and best of luck trying to prove Jeff Ireland, Joe Philbin, and Mike Sherman right.

 

So you agree with a terrible franchise. Good for you. Go get paid.

 

Try to understand this:

My 2 stances are:

1. I believe your (and others) assessment of Tannehill's play is flawed because he has too many handcuffs outside of his control to thrive. My evidence for thinking that is I can't think of a single QB that has thrived under the same set of handcuffs. If its never happened before, how can you accurately assess his performance? You can't. You can't judge pocket awareness when there's no pocket. You can't judge playmaking ability when there's no time to make a play. You can't judge leadership when he's not allowed to even audible.

2. I believe that if we solve some of those handcuffs, he can play at a high level. My evidence is that when the oline played just average (again not great or even good) he played at a high level.

You (and the others) 1 stance:
1. He sucks. Your evidence is your assessment of his play and team record without factoring in anything in my #1 or #2 stance. You guys are giving us condition-less evidence and calling it fact. You're also giving us your own take on abstract concepts like grit, will to win, dominate, etc.