NFL.com's Greg Rosenthall has RT17 ranked #25 QB in NFL

Its never failed because its never been refuted. Still hasn't.

 

I would agree with Monst on that one. We saw some threads but not like this year. Every thread with RT17 is filled with personal attacks and turns in to a minimum 25 page mess.

 

Nowhere near this volume. And many many more of us, myself included, supported Tannehill and thought he was already or would continue to grow into a franchise QB. In this his 4th year, a year in which he regressed, it has swayed in the opposite direction. The criticism is warranted IMHO. I've not given up hope on him like some have. If Andy Dalton can turn it around so can Tannehill. But any fan who isn't concerned with his play isn't looking at things objectively.

 

I would definitely say there's more of these discussions now, but they certainly existed since his first year. Shou caused a lot of problems back then that aren't dissimilar to what we have now, there was just less of them.

 

But that's just it and this is the kind of thing drives me crazy.....no one is saying Tannehill played great this year. No. One.

I just don't understand why this argument is always so misrepresented.

 

Couldn't agree more bro. Props. I've thought of mentioning the same thing many a time.

 

No need to get upset Fin, I'm not singling you out or any other member. I've stayed out of the debate for the most part. Both sides have their valid points. I'm just saying the existence and increased volume of these discussions is as good a barometer as any a fan has for how their QB is currently playing.

 

Agreed.

I believe because last year happened. This was supposed to be the year he plants himself in the top 10 and he didn't so people on either side are emotionally staked to one side.

 

True... we were so hopeful or should I say wishful. But then again it is waaaaay more than just his fault THIS year.

 

Most sacked QBs this year;

Quarterback, sacks, own div, 3rd down, trailing, 4th quarter
Alex Smith=__43___91.4____85.5____101.1___104.2

Blake Bortles=41____95.5___ 73.8___ 92.4____87.1

Russell Wilson=40___95.5____115.5__108.9___115.4

T Bridgewater=38___114.1___104.1___94.4____89.7

Marcus Mariota=38__92.6____ 78.0____81.5____75.7

Matt Stafford=_38___99.8____67.6____83.2____90.6

Ryan Tannehill=38___71.9____76.0____84.7____81.2

Philip Rivers=__36___69.8____88.3____95.3____99.5

Tom Brady=___34___101.1___109.3___102.1___113.6

 

Surely you know sacks aren't the only way a pass rush is effective...right?

 

Surely you know that Tanne is bad at recognizing pressure...right?

 

At least our own division is taking it easy on us.

 

That's fine, I took exception to the last line:

I assumed you meant that there are people not admitting he hasn't played well this year, because many others have either straight up said this or heavily implied it.

If that wasn't your meaning, then I apologize.

 

No he isn't.

But back to your post, if you know sacks aren't the only things that illustrate pressure, why did you post the stats you did?

 

He's horrible at it, the fact that you can't even admit/see that tells all, and sacks are the best indicator of pressure.

 

No he's average at it. What you're mistaking for being bad at it, is just how bad his line is.

Also, sacks are not the best indicator of pressure either.

 

Maybe he is ok with it... but sometimes he just doesn't see it

 

Sometimes every QB misses it. That's why teams try to rush the passer after all.

 

Frankly, when you see Tannehill call out a blitzer, and the blitzer doesn't get picked up, that tells you everything you need to know about the oline. People use sacks to say that he doesn't see the pressure. I don't believe that to be true. I think that he may stay in the pocket too long, or he may trust his blockers too much (which is CRAZY given what he's had for protection during his career), but I don't think it's just that he doesn't feel pressure.

 

No, he just doesn't see it until it's too late, too often, guys coming right in his line of sight that he doesn't recognize, he's really bad at it.

Sacks are the best indicator of pressure, you're mistakingly using the rare times when on a personal basis(the sacker) sacks don't ALWAYS tell the WHOLE story, pressures are a really unreliable indicator, because the quality of the pressures can be vastly different, and a good pass rusher will always get a lot of sacks in the long run.

In the history of the NFL tens of thousands of passes have been completed from QBs under pressure, but not once has a QB ever completed a pass when he's been sacked.

 

Tanne is horrible at recognizing potential blitzers.

 

I like Miller, he's a solid back. I just don't see him as a guy who can carry 20 times per game. IMO the coaches are smart to limit his touches. Unfortunately they've mainly done it by throwing more as opposed to finding a 2nd quality back.

 

No, more often than not they come to quick for him to do anything about it.

Sacks are not the best indicator. If pressure has different levels, so do sacks.

And obviously QBs don't complete passes when they are sacked. Pressure, OTOH, causes all kinds of problems, having to throw short to not finding an open guy to not having enough time to go deep (and much more). These are all the things that show up on the stat sheet. These are all the things you guys ***** about.

 

Yes to both questions.

In a balanced offense, as I described previously, Tannehill's weaknesses will be hidden and his strengths will be on display more.

I wouldn't go after another QB at this point bc IMO the quickest path to good QB play is improving the supporting cast. If the support cast stays the same then pretty much any non elite QB will struggle.

 

Poor eyesight? Contacts?

 

Ok, man.

 

WADR, you are high. Your hate has blinded you lol.

There are more than one free runner at the QB all the time. Most often he sees the one, but not the other 3 that were unblocked.

You try so hard, yet fail every time.

Must be frustrating.

But keep trying!

 

And that's why shou is gone. Well that and being a general nuisance

If sacks are the best indicator of pressure then what is the point of the stats for pressures and hits? Why would they even chart those if it wasn't to chart qb pressure? Sacks are merely an outcome of successful pressure.

 

Agreed I would just change the bold to:

...one of a few possible outcomes of a successful pressure.

 

Sacks are a good indicator of how a QB HANDLES pressure though. Ryan is A.) not good at reacting to pressure, B.) not surrounded with the best scheme for pressure. There really is no reason for either side to pretend they don't see those things. Yet, round and round we go.

And Shou was Shou, his condescending approach is not without company with a particular few imo (and no Im not referring to my Tanne-guys in these threads. head on over to the POFO and tell me what you see.

 

Sacks are a combination outcome. It can fall in any number of directions from QB awareness, to OL blocking, to blitz pickup from backs or a chip block by a TE/RB, to WR's not realizing the blitz was coming and it was going to have to be a hot route. It can be a combination of those. You would need to study each sack, hit and pressure to really see where the fault lies on each play, chart them, and make a determination from there. Im not saying youre wrong, but I havent done that.

 

this is what gets me, the coaches know exactly where the failures occurred and have been unable to improve it in 4 years now. its disgraceful

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

If pressures and hits are the best indicator for pressure why keeps stats for sacks? Why would they chart those if it wasn't to chart QB pressure? Pressures and hits are merely an outcome of a failure of a successful sack.

 

Lmao...touche' salesman

 

If sacks are how you gauge pressure, are TDs how you gauge passes/runs or are INTs how you gauge pass defense?

 

Can you have a sack without pressure? Can you have pressure without a sack? When you answer those, maybe you'll understand why what you said is totally ridiculous.

Just looking to argue on Christmas Eve?

 

Welcome back Dan!

That ban wasn't very long huh?

 

Some wanted Philbin fired after year 2.

You didn't think about what you wrote before you wrote it did you? Pressures and hits are charted only on plays where a sack is not the result.

Not dan but another banned user...

 

yup I am one of those people. IMO the postion with the most impact on a team is the HC. Above QB and any other position. I hate to point to NE because its done way too often but BB is a good example of how he seems to be able to get the most out of players. Players go there and put up career high numbers and performances drop when they are traded to other teams are a generally consistent basis. That is a product of being coached well and scheming to your players strengths.



Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk