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Star Wars Episode VII

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Bruzer, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    You're right. I misused the term. even so, "fun" and "great" are not the same thing and TFA was the former, not the latter IMO.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Fair enough. All good. I agree btw, the movie wasn't a great piece cinema, but it was fun as hell and easily better than all the other 6 before it, IMO.
     
  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Oh its March 2017? I was thinking that they would keep releasing them in the fall, with the one-off movies in between. Thats cool on the novel too. I might do that.
     
  4. JDelenne

    JDelenne Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A novel? Do you happen to know the name/author?
     
  5. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'll do you one better [video]http://www.amazon.com/Force-Awakens-Star-Wars/dp/1101965495/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451433165&sr=1-1&keywords=the+force+awakens[/video]. You can buy the kindle edition now but the hardcover comes out on Jan 5th

    Also I got M months mixed up, the release date for Episode 8 is May 26th.
     
  6. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Definitely not better than Episodes 4-6 but a fun movie to see and good overall. You're the first person I've seen who thought it was better than 4-6. The first thing my 13 year old daughter actually said when we left was "It wasn't as good as the old ones." But we did all enjoy it for sure. I'm a bit curious as to what makes you think it's so much better than all the rest? I think it lacks some of the creativity of the originals and of course it was always unlikely they'd come up with a villain that could match Darth Vader.
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I think it's arguably better than a New Hope. But it doesn't need to be, it needs to be of the same spirit, which it is, so it's a win.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I was huge fan as a kid, but I lack sentimentality. When nostalgia is removed you find that 4 was boring, 5 is good but only because of the ending, else its just meh, and 6 is silly. This one was just more polished and funny and had the spirit of adventure that movies like the 3 original Indiana Jones had.

    It also had a strong feminist message which is lacking in movies, especially in action adventure ones.
     
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  9. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Beatles are both fun and great. Just like The Force Awakens.
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    With movies and music, I'm chock full of sentimentality. They take me back to where I was when I first watched them, and are all about enjoyment, not being critical. Generally, my opinion of a movie doesn't change very much over the years after I see it, regardless of how long its been.
     
  11. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think TFA is on par with ANH, but I don't think it's better. ANH was a self contained movie, while TFA felt more like the 1st part of a trilogy. I haven't seen ANH in years though, and I hope the next time I do it'll be the theatrical release, not the newer versions with all of the changes.
     
  12. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    So much for any original ideas what so ever.

    Death Star 2.0, Marvel end-credit esque Luke scene, Emo Ren, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
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  13. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    This is a good point and one of my issues w/TFA and Abrams. TFA isn't self contained, and I think that leaves me somewhat dissatisfied and why I can't say its a great movie. Abrams left too many loose ends and didn't establish enough definitive answers/results (Especially with Kylo Ren). Some may look at this style as "leaving them wanting more..." And in the end, that does appear to be the case. But as an individual film, it doesn't work for me. It reminds me of Christopher Nolan talking about his work w/Batman. He was given the franchise and one film. He decided to make the best possible film he could given the parameters at WB (BB being based on year one/an origin tale). BB could stand alone w/o sequels. It's the genesis of Batman and his relationship w/Gotham. Certainly, Nolan left the door open for a sequel (joker card), but the story being told had a definitive beginning, middle and end, with fully fleshed out themes, plots, and characterization. Same for TDK. It's its own film, even as a direct sequel (TDKR doesn't really fit this pattern, as it returns to some of BB's plot points and characters, which is a big reason I felt like it was the weakest).

    Anyone ever catch Abrams TED talk? He talks about his writing style, aka the mystery box. He introduces plots, knowing that they'll raise questions, and the answers to those questions lead to more questions... Think LOST (TV show). While Lost was a great show (IMO), the ending did fall flat. And it does ruin replay value. At some point, you have to have satisfying answers that lead to a satisfying conclusion. And like LOST, Abrams doesn't have involvement beyond it's inception (season 2-6 of LOST and the next two episodic SW films had/has no JJ involvement). He's leaving questions open to be answered by different writers and directors... Abrams is really counting on other people to make this film work. Because if the answers to our questions aren't very good, TFA won't age well, unlike the OT...Well, at least ANH and ESB. ROTJ, while it had some strong moments, was a mess. Mainly because Lucas had all the power, just like EP. I-III.



    On a different note, anyone hoping for a Vader film? Clearly, Vader always had plans to overthrow Palpatine (as per his convo's with Padme and later on, Luke), but was never strong enough due to his injuries. There's a lot of time between RoTS and ANH. I'd love to see a film where Vader tries to 'Game of Throne' the emperor, with multiple parties trying to maneuver their game pieces around to secure power.
     
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  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ANH was a self contained movie because they didn't know they'd be able to make more. Empire is widely considered to be the best SW movie and it was not self contained and left just as many plates spinning in the air.

    In all honesty, and I mean no offense to anyone, but I think the problem is nostalgia.

    People are looking for the exact thing that made ANH so special back in the day, and that's never gonna happen again, because you were younger and you'd never seen anything like it.

    Now, Force comes out and you can't quite put your finger on why its lacking....because nostalgia.

    When the prequels came out, everyone complained, because they didn't "feel" like the 4-6. So, now Force comes out and structures itself similarly, so we find other things to complain about like no originality or its not self contained movie, etc.
     
  15. Dolphin1184

    Dolphin1184 Member

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    In reality, people subconsciously miss Jar Jar Binks.

    Search your feelings, you know this to be true.
     
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  16. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Saying TFA structures itself similar is short selling what TFA is all about. Not that it makes TFA a bad movie, but we've been on this ride before and now we have another entry in the series that is very similar to the one that started it all. That's why I can't put it above ANH, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying TFA.
     
  17. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought the movie was fun but I agree, the plot was basically pulled from all the other movies and it was very unoriginal. Droid carrying message for Rebellion/Deathstar/Fallen Jedi=Main Villian/Luke=Obi Wan now, etc. I enjoyed it and look forward to the next one but honestly they could have used some better writers. JJ Abrams is a very uninspiring writer but a very good director.
     
  18. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is true to a certain extent. I saw the original in the theater at 5 years old and no movie would ever compare to that experience, I'm not apologetic about that either but I realize its a lot more than the story or the special effects or anything like that. There was no movie that even compares to that movie EVER in my life, and it is the time that I saw it, what it meant to kids my age at the time, the toys, the no iphones/ipads/internet/etc. It was literally the biggest thing ever, I saw it in the theater at least 5 or 6 times, there was no computers to watch it on or even VHS tapes. Its still the best movie experience, I mean when the Death Star blew up the entire theater was on their feet cheering and clapping, the movie was a very unique experience.
     
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  19. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Couple of things...

    - I agree nostalgia is apart of the equation. How could it not be? That's not the end all be all though. And I can definitely put my finger on legit issues w/TFA.

    - W/o the nostalgia of the OT, TFA doesn't work. It was made for SW fans specifically. Some having called it the most expensive piece of fan fiction ever made. That's a little harsh, but there is truth in that. From recycling/remaking major plot points to all of the callbacks in the film (many of which were intentionally obvious), the nostalgia of the OT is the biggest selling point for TFA. In fact, TFA really only had one "iconic" moment of it's own.

    The Death of Han Solo. That scene should of been powerful. Rivaling Luke learning Vader was his father. Instead, it's much weaker than it should of been. Namely because, we're not invested in Kylo Ren. His motivation is paper thin. I understand that killing by killing Han, Kylo Ren is attempting to sever his connection to the light-side. But why is he so invested in the dark side?

    "Forgive me. I feel it again... the call from light. The Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again, the power of the darkness, and I'll let nothing stand in our way. Show me, grandfather, and I will finish what you started."

    Huh? Umm, Vader returned to the light... And for good reason.

    Anakin turned to the dark side to 1). Save Padme and 2). Bring justice to he galaxy 3). To escape metaphorical slavery. Padme? Dead. The Galaxy? In ruins. Attaining his individual freedom? Slave to the emperor, trapped in a mechanical suit that keeps him alive. And had Vader continued down the path of the darkside, Luke would be dead. And Kylo Ren's parents? Dead too... Along with those dumb ewoks. The dark side was the worst thing to ever happen to Anakin... Why would Kylo Ren think Anakin/Vader supports the dark side? Terrible writing and it feels so incomplete.

    - The prequels were horrible movies for completely legitimate reasons. From the characters, plots, dialog, etc... It was just bad. And it didn't "feel" like SW for good reason. George Lucas. GL created and owned SW and is always given the lions share of the credit. Yet, w/o his ex-wife rewriting ANH, that movie never gets made. And Lucas had little to do with ESB. The one film in the entire trilogy that Lucas had complete control over was RoTJ. The worst of the OT. The bigger issues w/RoTJ can absolutely be seen in the prequel trilogy. Funny thing is, "Clone Wars" is highly regarded for its greatness, taking place during the same time as the PT, using the same characters, and doing a much effective job of plotting, characterization, etc... George Lucas has himself to blame for the PT failures.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    First of all, I can tell you TFA absolutely works for people not a fan of SWs, because my wife and dozen or so of my friends loved the movie and are not hardcore fans at all. Again, I think the biggest complaints come from huge SW fans (and up their own *** movie critics, so who cares what they say). I think those complaints are all rooted in, as i said, nostalgia.

    I think you're a 100% wrong about it not having its own iconic moment.

    Nothing in any SW movie is bigger than Han being killed by his son. No character is more beloved than Solo in that universe. People gasped and cried in the theater I was at. Also, we'll learn more about Ren's motives to the dark side. All the reasons you gave for Vader's turn to be more compelling weren't found out for literally decades after Vader appeared in 3 movies, so you can't use them to say Ren's turn is less compelling since they didn't tell us why after 1 movie.
     
  21. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    I know they killed off Darth Vader, but they should have at least brought back the Star-ship Enterprise, or Ripley or somebody from the last series of movies.
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Or that bounty hunter...what was his name....Booby Feet?
     
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  23. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought Paul Atreides looked good in his new armor.
     
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  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Dog. Dog Feet. Dog Feet the Bounty Hunter.
     
  25. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Holy crap, I thought that was Eric Foreman
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's it, thank you.

    Oh and Paul Blart, Darth Maul Cop
     
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  27. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Ren's turn is going to have to be explained very well in future movies. It seems illogical to emulate a person who at the end decided that most of his life had been a huge mistake. This is going to need some strong writing to fix. I found myself thinking, "Is Kylo Ren not aware that Darth Vader saved Luke and killed the Emperor?" I think they've got their work cut out for them with this. The odds of the son of basically the saviors of the universe turning bad should be astronomically small. Forget that his uncle is also the last Jedi and basically becomes almost a mythological figure in the universe. They're probably going to have to paint two beloved characters as deadbeat parents. Or Luke as a crappy Jedi master. Honestly I wish Kylo Ren would have just been some power hungry kid strong with the force who emerged in his own right. I don't like the family connection, I don't think it was necessary at all. I hope Rey doesn't end up being related to any of them. There should be more than one family in the entire universe strong with the force.
     
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  28. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm with you there. It'll have to be really well explained, or else will come off as forced and unrealistic, bordering on unbelievable.
     
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  29. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    my prediction:

    Rey cuts off Luke's good hand when she finds out he's the father that abandoned her so many years ago

    LUKE: Rey, I am your father.
    REY: (sheds tear.. blinks... looks of shock turns slowly to a scowl) You son of a-
    [vroooosh]
    LUKE: aaiiieeeeee!!!!
     
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  30. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Exactly.
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Let me just say again, we don't truly learn Vader's motivation's until 2 & 3 which is the 5th & 6th movie and you guys are upset you didn't get the backstory in Ren's first movie and are demanding it in the next 2.

    I also didn't want to say this earlier for the ****storm it would likely cause, but....

    The only reason Vader went to the DS was because he leaned that way for a long time. I know all Jedi can go either way, but he wasn't 50/50, he was more like 70/30, considering all the feelings that belong to the DS, he had in spades and early in life, like lust, anger, vengeance, rebellious, independence (damn, just realized I'm one dead girlfriend away from being a Sith Lord, :lol:). So why is it any less compelling that....

    Ren wouldn't be 70/30 or more from birth too. Considering that Leia had a lot on her plate running the galaxy and Han is not equipped to be a dad let alone a dad to a powerful "emo adjacent" jedi....is it really so crazy that Snoke was corrupting him from an early age because his parents didn't get him? We hear him say Han was a bad dad after all. Imagine if he's already leaning towards the DS like Gramps, and then Snoke starts putting bugs in his ear about how Vader went Vader for his kids and how Han can't even stop hanging with Chewie for 10 minutes to play force catch with Ren, etc. I mean, Qui-Gon & Obi Wan got to Vader early but the DS was too strong for even them to stop him, why is it so crazy to think if a DS operative got to a similar young jedi, that young jedi wouldn't go all the way to the DS early?
     
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  32. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    You make a compelling argument.
     
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  33. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Not saying it can't be done or made sense of at all it's just that you don't generally expect lightning to keep hitting the exact same spot repeatedly.

    This basically expects us to believe that it's not that difficult to turn people to the dark side. You're talking about 2 out of the last 3 most recently trained Jedis turning bad. I'm basically asked to believe that pretty much whoever can go to an aspiring Jedi, tell them how unfair life has been to them, promise some power, and now suddenly they're power crazed homicidal maniacs. Why weren't more Jedis being turned to the dark side of the force even before Anakin? How did they maintain order in the universe for so long being so easily turned? I can't help but wonder going off of how relatively simple it seems to be. Also Han is not the only male role model/father figure in Kylo Ren's life. He also turned his back on Luke. If Luke was training him it's hard to believe Luke wasn't giving it his full attention. Sure, things weren't perfect with Leia and Han as parents and Luke as an uncle but we're not talking about some kid going hungry in the ghetto while his mom's strung out on heroin here. Also if we're talking about Hans ability to have an impact as a father he didn't seem to have any difficulty filling the fatherly void in Rey's life.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't think so:
    First of all there were a lot more good jedi then bad, but Ren killed them all. And canon has set it up that it is hard to stay away form the DS.

    Honestly, and I mean no offense, but your argument is weakish. You're contradicting yourself. You don't want lightning to strike twice but you keep comparing this to that and complaining about the differences. Vader was closer to the DS his whole life, from an early age not even ObiWan and Qui Con could stop the DS from taking him, why is it so hard to believe Vader's grandson would be even more susceptible to turning?
     
  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I'm not sure if that's entirely fair. While Ren suggests that Han became a father figure to Rey, I'm not really sure how. 1). Han and Rey barely knew each other. 2). How would Ren even know about their relationship?

    Also, I think Kylo Ren turning to the dark side fine, as long as there is a justifiable reason for it. Han said he had too much Vader in him. I think it would be kind of cool if they explored the concept of the Skywalkers being so powerful with the force, it's as much of a gift as it is a curse. Kind of like the Targs in Game of Thrones. "Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they?... What's the saying? 'Every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin.'" - Cersei. Anakin was quite literally born of 'The Force,' so irregularities in anyone of the Skywalker bloodline could be fun to explore. And it could explain why Luke abandoned his daughter, Rey.

    Fin D

    A great of example as to why the prequels failed. It's wholly bizarre that Lucas NEVER made any effort to demonstrate the friendship and closeness between Anakin and Obi Wan. It's hard to say that Qui Gon nor Obi Wan couldn't prevent his turn, when they barely spent time with him. If you re-watch the prequels, Anakin and Obi Wan are rarely together. And when they're, there was always tension and attitude problems between them.


    One of the problems with Ren as a bad guy, is he doesn't have any characters for which to express his inner thoughts too. Which is why his meeting with Rey, at the end of the film should of been much conversational and character building. We should of learned something, instead the conversation turned to Kylo Ren trying to recruit Rey, despite the fact that she's kicking his *** and had no reason to take him seriously. Speaking of, how did Rey beat up Kylo Ren with no training of any kind? Even Luke got his *** handed to him by Vader in his first duel. And there were consequences when he turned down the Dark Side... Ren is kind of pathetic, really.
     
  36. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    It's not an argument first of all, it's an explanation of why it has felt like lazy storytelling to me. If you don't want to offend me start off by not attempting to win something that wasn't an argument to begin with. There's no contradiction whatsoever. Not everything has to be an argument. If you're fine with, "it happened because that's what happened before so it makes sense" i'm fine with that. I just enjoy a little creativity and hope a compelling backstory is forthcoming personally.
     
  37. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    Agreed that Rey and Han didn't spend a ton of time together but her reaction to his death was strong so it indicates there was at least some bond.

    Half of the Targaryens were crazy because they were inbred LOL.
     
  38. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Luke did kiss Leia... And Leia looked like she recognized Rey... And it would explain why Rey was abandoned. She's the imbred child of Luke And Leia and they wanted to hide their shame.
     
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  39. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    My favorite review of SW:TFA.

    [video=youtube;1ArHOinPHGw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ArHOinPHGw&feature=youtu.be[/video]

    Massive spoilers warning.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I genuinely didn't mean to imply that we were arguing, I just meant "you're position". I apologize if came across aggressive, that was honestly not my intent.
     

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