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Star Wars Episode VII

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Bruzer, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Again, Vader had none of that for over 4 movies, why are we expecting more backstory on Ren in just the first movie?

    Honestly, I see mirror images in Luke and Ren. Luke was never truly tempted by the DS and Ren wasn't truly tempted by jedi side. I think people want to compare Luke and Rey because they are good guys from similar backgrounds, but I feel like Ren and Luke and their ying & yang is the crux of the story going forward.
     
  2. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Makes sense, especially considering...

    Luke was trying to save his father and lived. Ren's father tried to save his son and died. So there is something to their being a mirror image. Same, but opposites.

    edit: Although, I'm not sure if Luke wasn't tempted by the Dark side. He wasn't tempted by Palp into betraying his friends and the rebels, but he did force choke some of Jaba's guards. And acted arrogant and smug to Jaba. Even threatening to kill him. Not very Jedi like of Luke.
     
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  3. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I disagree. The whole pre ANH storylines that have come out point at Vader eliminating all of the Jedi warriors around the galaxy, leaving only Obi-wan and Yoda who were in hiding.
     
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  4. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ren knows that Vader killed the emperor, it was cut from the movie but it appers in the novelization. Snoke tells him that Vader almost wiped out the Jedi but succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment.
     
  5. Soundwave

    Soundwave Phins Sympathizer..

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    What I loved about this is that she was strong from the start. There was no one telling her that she was just a girl. There was no 'I'll show them" moment. I love the character

    That moment Kylo Ren when she's being interrogated.. 'You're afraid' .. wow
     
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  6. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I like Rey, but I am concerned about her story going forward. She's pretty much Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Princess Leia combined. She's as overpowered of a character as there has been in all of SW.

    Luke: A young, idealistic, dreamer, with hidden force ability.
    Han: Street smart, savy, pilot, who knows how to get out of a tight spot.
    Leia: The would be Damsel in distress, but it turns out she's much tougher than she looks. *One of the Best lines in the film: "Stop holding my hand!"*

    She's surviving in a hostel environment all by herself, flies and fixes the MF like a pro, saves Finn countless times, uses Jedi abilities w/no training or understanding of the force, beats Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, etc... She's pretty overpowered. It does bring the drama down a notch when a character is playing in god-mode. I like Rey, don't misunderstand. But they didn't leave a lot of room for character growth. She's basically ahead of where Luke was at the end of ESB. I'm not sure where she goes from here, exactly.
     
  7. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I actually like it. IMO, Rey falls more into line of what a Jedi's abilities should be in the Star Wars universe. As much as I was "meh" about episodes 1-3, the jedi in those episodes were closer to the mark for Jedi's - much more fluid, stronger, acrobatic, stronger uses of the force.
     
  8. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Rey is Luke without the doubt. Just like Yoda said, do or not not, there is no try. She doesn't try, which is why she's ahead of Luke before ESB.
     
  9. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Shes already past novice level with the force despite no training whereas Luke needed to be educated and trained about the force and how to be a Jedi, and he needed two masters to train him properly. When I bring this up to my fellow SW fans, they say "well she's known about the force and the story about Luke and Vader. Luke didn't know about the force at all." Even so, how does she already know how to utilize it like a seasoned Jedi? Because she touched a lightsaber? I don't think the force works like that. You can say that about Finn too but he does wind up getting his *** kicked by Ren. But I agree, Rey's Jedi skills for some reason are already past where Luke's was by the end of ESB. That was my biggest problem with the film, she's already an advanced Jedi with no training whatsoever by the end. Even with training from Obi Wan and Yoda, Luke still couldn't do half the things she did without anyone guiding her. So if Luke winds up training her(you know he will, after being reluctant), by the third movie she should be the most powerful Jedi ever, in the history of all Jedi's.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I call it selective breeding.
     
  11. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Or lazy writing.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't think it was so much about her being a badass, I think it was more about Ren being injured and.....

    in a crazy headspace since, you know, he just killed his dad and all.
     
  13. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    plus, the final scene with Lord Snoke hinted that Ren still needed to complete his training. IMO, they portrayed Ren as someone who was strong in the force but more of a novice. I think we'll see him stronger with each movie.
     
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  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I know that the next movie comes out in about a year and a half, but how much time passes in the Star Wars universe between them? About the same? More? Less? That would effect things like everyone's growth and development as well.
     
  15. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    well the timelines between episodes 6 and 7 were about same - about 30 years, so maybe it'll be the same. of course Luke spent seemingly a short time with Yoda to carry out his training.
     
  16. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I think you could reasonably expect that Finn went through hand to hand combat, and even armed melee combat prior to being deployed. He does seem a bit too good with the light saber, but it doesn't seem as far-fetched as some of Rey's jedi abilities.
     
  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    If Ren is a novice, why was he sent to take on Luke Skywalker? What hope did he have if he couldn't hold his own vs. Rey? It's just inconsistent storytelling all around.
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Was he? I thought at this point he was sent to simply find the map.
     
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  19. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Was he sent to take on Luke, or did he trash Luke's academy and then hook up with Snoke? I was a bit unclear on the timeline there.
     
  20. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    agreed, I don't think the movie implied he was sent to take on Luke.
     
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  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I think a lot of what has gone on will be explained in the next two movies. Too many people calling the movie out for inconsistencies when the story isn't done yet.

    For example, I've recently been pondering something about Rey that theoretically could explain her
    giftedness with the force.

    Long spoiler

    I was wondering whether Rey/Rai's preference for her staff (how many shots are there of that thing in close up?) might indicate that her future light-saber of preference is a double-bladed weapon like Darth Maul's?

    The more I pondered that, though, I started to be reminded of that girl Jedi in Star Wars KOTOR. So I looked it up. The girl in question is Bastila Shan.


    Bastila Image 1

    Bastila Image 2

    Bastila Image 3

    Now, since they've basically declared the previous extended universe stuff as no longer canon, could it be that they're going to run with a modified version of the Bastila/Revan story?

    Wikipedia lists this summary for the game character:

    "She is the Jedi who defeated Revan prior to the game's beginning and joins the player's character's quest. Darth Malak captures her and seduces her to the Dark Side. If the protagonist aligns with the light side of the Force, he defeats Bastila in a lightsaber duel and she redeems herself by helping the Republic fleet. If the protagonist is a dark-side character, the player has the option of killing Bastila or allowing her to live. If the latter, Bastila becomes his apprentice. Bastila is also a romance option if your character is a light-sided male. Canonically, she is redeemed from the dark side by Revan and the two fall in love. She also appears in the sequel. She has a descendant, Satele Shan, who appears in the MMO follow-up "Star Wars: The Old Republic"."

    Now if you haven't played the game, you might ask, who's Darth Revan?

    This guy:

    Revan Image

    "Revan is depicted as a former Jedi who, along with Malak, left the Order to lead the fight in the Mandalorian Wars due to the Jedi's inaction. One year after the end of the Mandalorian Wars, Darth Revan returned to Republic space at the head of a massive invasion fleet. Calling themselves the Sith, they declared war on the Republic. However his intention was to unite the galaxy under one ruler so he could attack the ancient Sith Empire...He was then taken by Bastila Shan and her Jedi strike team to the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine where the Jedi Council members chose to wipe Revan's memory, and imprint him with a false identity that the player creates at the beginning of the game. Knights of the Old Republic begins with Revan awaking on a starship under attack. Throughout the game, Revan learns of his forgotten history and assembles a band of followers as he searches for "Star Maps" that lead him back to the Star Forge, which Revan used to make his army. Revan encounters Malak, who tells Revan that he is the former Sith lord.

    At one point Malak captures Bastila and turns her to the dark side. According to canon, Revan returned as a Jedi Knight who stopped the Sith forces under Malak's control and destroyed the Star Forge. The last scene of the game's canonical ending shows the principal characters, including Revan, being honored by the Republic at the site of the temple on Rakata Prime".

    Now I'm no Star Wars expert, and I doubt they'd follow this plot exactly, but with the visual similarities, the age match between Ren and Rey, the dark/light conflict, and even the hints at Rey's forgotten past (survivor of Ren's overthrow of the 'Skywalker School for Jedi'? - mind-wiped to hide her, might explain the ease with which she 'picks up the force') - maybe they might spin a little bit of this story in a different direction, sort of how JJ Abrams -reinvented Star Trek by using previous story-lines but reworking them?

    Could Rey by the lightside character who ends up winning over the conflicted Ren with love? How about Ren trying to find maps and build an army (Knights of Ren)? And Luke's search for an ancient Jedi temple?

    Just a thought.

    I suspect there's a good chance everything will be cleared up as it goes. I don't think Abrams and co. would throw away too many bits of classic lore.
     
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  22. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Couldn't make it to the minute mark. This dude needs to learn to look in the camera. What, you have a waffle stuck to your ceiling you can't stop looking at?
     
  23. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I agree with those saying it's unreasonable for us to expect us to know more than what we were given from the first movie. But at the same time, I understand why people want more.

    Think about it. It's been since Episode V and VI that we really had any major revelations. Episode IV didn't give us much of anything at all except for a tale of good vs evil. We all knew the basics of what was going to happen in the prequels, we just didn't have the details. Now here we are in Episode VII and it's new territory again. They gave us quite a bit. I mean we did find out right away...

    Kilo Ren was Han Solo's son. If I have one little complaint, I think the scene where Ren killed Solo could have been so much more powerful if we didn't learn until that point that Ren was Solo's son. If we learned that as soon as Han said, "BEN!" it would have been a much more powerful and emotional scene. But then you wouldn't have had the farewell scene with Leia and Han, so I get the tradeoff.

    I like the fact that we are in for more surprises in the next 2 movies. And I like that we will probably get all the back story in movies. Disney is going to give Star Wars the Marvel treatment and I couldn't be happier.
     
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  24. Jaydog57

    Jaydog57 Canes/Fins/Magic fan

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    I'm curious to know in the sequel, if
    Luke "felt" Han Solo's demise and already knew about it before Rey found him, or not.
    Just curious, because Jedi's can detect that type of stuff, especially from people they're close to.
     
  25. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I would love to see them dip into the Old Republic storylines since they did a good job developing a very good storyline and certainly the game depicts Jedi as much more powerful than Luke (more along the lines of Rey's instant abilities), but I'm pessimistic they will do it.
     
  26. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Well, Leia felt it, so wouldn't be a stretch if Luke felt it.
     
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  27. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Star Wars... meh...

    It felt... "borrowed"... Let's see - a familiar sci-fi movie about yet another youngster, this time a girl, as opposed to Luke and little boy Annakin, living on another desert planet, scavenging to get by and pining for more from life, who meets yet another droid with *shocker* another desperate message from the struggling "rebellion" and ends up awakening/learning the Force in another battle with another evil empire and yet another emperor with yet another Skywalker descendant that turned to the dark side, and they stop by yet another alien-filled cantina and later we get to watch helplessly as another mentor-figure is killed and then they get in more X-wings and blow up another planet-sized, planet-destroying space station. Yawn...

    Hated FN's character... lessee, a babe stolen and raised entirely by the Evil Empire to be a hardened Storm Trooper, and not just any run of the mill Storm Trooper mind you, BUT A FIRST ORDER Storm Trooper - and right off the bat he fails at what he's been trained for at least a decade and a half to do - follow instructions and squeeze a trigger. You'd expect him to be more hardened, even if it were his first battle. You'd expect his aversion to killing to come after his first kill, to have an epiphany of sorts. Instead he wusses out and even draws the attention of Solo's emo welp wanna-be vader baddie. More on Wannabe Solo later.

    Anyway, didn't dig the pudgy, FN FO StormTrooper wuss with his comic personality. There was so much that they could've done with this character if they'd started him off more stoic and slowly had him loosen up. Instead he was a conscientious objector, who made it thru advanced First Ordie Super Baddie StormTrooper classes and graduated to battle assignment before turning into an intentional reversal of what we've seen in the other movies. This time, instead of rebels pretending to be stormtroopers, it's a stormtrooper pretending to be a rebel. Brilliant!!!

    Then he teams up with Han and Chewie and come to rescue the girl and it turns out she’s already rescued herself by using a Force she didn't even know she had, but suddenly did!!! And Wannabe can't find her with his super Force senses - and once again sends inept minions to do things he should have done himself. Then later FN states that he was in charge of sanitation duty (he's a latrine queen???) when he finally finds some balls to go in and try to rescue Rey... really? They send the plumbers in now to round up and execute rebels? That's some "First Order"!!! Geeze no wonder they always fail to crush the rebels and have their death stars blown up.

    Then, Rey, instead dreaming of leaving her craptastic desert scrounger lifestyle ala Luke and Anny, she’s wanting to get back to it. She was certainly easy on the eye, but for someone who had never been out of the desert, her expertise with anything and everything mechanical and electronically complex and rocket sciency was annoying.

    Han and Chewy lost the MF Falcon? Really? And they couldn't find it, track it, steal it back? Really... well, LUCKILY, they just happened to be operating, illegally mind you, above the planet it was being kept on and they locked onto it as soon as it hit space and they "stole" it back... Dafuq?

    And the whole Han-Leia story... /sighs

    "Don't you worry, Honey, Imma gonna go get that boy and bring him home"... First the Falcon, then Rey, then the resistance. Han is on a roll. What could go wrong? It's ok Leia, you just stand around and act important. She shoulda been the one to go get him and get killed. That woulda rocked. Anyway, the Father/son scenes... Another stolen scene from a by-gone episode except in reverse. Instead of Luke and Vader with Vader turning good, it's Han and wannabe, with a Sun/Darkness scene stolen from LadyHawke except of course wuss boy turns to the darkside. How else could that have played out?

    And on the note of Han and Chewie, since when was Chewie such a wuss himself? Beatup, shot up, whiney, Han taking his weird crossbow blaster away and using it while Chewie stood around... dafuq?

    So what's next in 2 years? The return of Luke, with Rey in tow, who will end up being HIS kid? She and Kylo/Wannabe emo boy (who wears a mask not because he needed it like Vader, but because his granpappy badass wore one) are the future of the story...

    And when do we FINALLY get to see Leia's "Force Awakening"? I mean she is the other heir to Anakin Skywalker, yes? Yoda alluded to it and Luke told her “You have that power too. In time you’ll learn to use it as I have.”

    Anyway, the movie was enjoyable on the surface if you don't think about the story and each character too much, but it left me feeling empty and like I'd seen it all before. Finally, there was Luke - the fkn Hero and central figure of the original trilogy - at the end looking like Obi-wan with the gray beard and hoodie robe, living like a hermit ala up the mountain, where he'll undoubtedly train Rey in sort of a quasi Pai Mei master Jedi role, while Rey who has "awakened" is there is spark him back into action... Another 2 years and we'll, maybe, finally, get to see Luke as a Jedi Master do something - hopefully original and not a rehash of the past movies...

    Lessee who Rey parents end up being... Maybe Luke had tryst that one time? She and Wannabe HAVE to be related somehow - cousins makes a sort of sense and adds to the "let's keep it in the family" theme of the other movies... of course, Old Ben Kenobi could've had a grandkid I guess. Right... lol...

    Apologies for the rant style. Just so much disappointment with story and characterizations...

    YMMV.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    About Finn...

    I read that his story is explained much more in the official novelization. He was part of a four person squad in training. His best friend, was the trooper that died and smeared blood on his helmet in the beginning. The one that called him a traitor in the battle later was another of his squad.

    Anyway, seeing his friend die explains why he broke form his training. Now, we can make an argument about why or why not that was in the movie, but the story is there.
     
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  29. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I considered the death of his friend as his reasoning for turning, but it wasn't so much his reasoning or his betrayal of the FO that bothered me, but his comic personality throughout the movie and lack of discipline that was out of kilter... Once he started shouting at Poe in the Tie-Fighter "Did you see that?!" I was done with him. It was stupid and felt like Abrams was trying to force us to like him. Also the whole conversation in the Tie-Fighter was just dumb. His out of the blue rescue of first Poe, then Rey that was out of kilter as well. Free them, yes, but to go and get them? And suddenly he has no problem shooting his former friends... Anyway, you'd expect someone raised from an infant in a military type environment to be much more disciplined and stoic - at least initially. If he had started off like Kurt Russell's "Todd" character in the sci-fi movie "Soldier", then loosened up later on into this silly character, it would have been better. He was pretty pudgy as well. I laughed outright at skinny little Poe's jacket fitting FN so well.

    Also, he didn’t really bring any special skills to the table. He wasn't good at anything. Just a prop to set up part of the plot.

    Rutroh Ken seemed to be the most emo super self-conscious, insecure "supervillain" ever. When he sensed FN's issues in the opening of the movie, why didn't he act to discipline him or just cut him down? And why couldn't he find Rey on the ship after she freed herself? Afterall he found her in the forest to capture her initially. It was another WTF moment. Then his anger mgt issues. Trashing the computer panel with his lightsaber instead of chopping up the messenger boy. He's is a pu**y in wolf’s clothing. Didn't Mommy and Daddy show him enough attention as a child? (FMJ reference - which would've been awesome if Han had started shouting at him "Benjamin Kyle Solo!!! You're in big trouble, young man!!" Anyway emo boy has issues and is Rey's bi**h.

    Rey is ok, but her self discovery of the force felt forced. And when he takes off his silly looking mask, I was wondering how long they would stare at each other, eyes bugging out, jaws clenching, sound effects throbbing, before she won and he stormed off to pout and lightsaber his bedroom into shreds.

    Max Von Sydow was completely wasted in this movie. Why get a guy like him and not do more with him? He was one of the most accomplished actors in the movie. And Poe's character was a little underdeveloped. So, he’s the Michael Jordan of the Resistance while everyone else is a bunch of towel boys. And what? Wait for him to drop one in the basket in the final seconds for the win. Anti-climatic... This is a movie to set up future movies with people we don't care about. It's pudgy FN and fledgling Rey with an old Han just stumbling around until Poe blows the new death star/planet up, they Rey goes and climbs Pai Mei's, I mean Luke's island mountain for training... wonder if speaks like Yoda now? lol... The next one HAS to be better, yes? Yes?

    I didn't hate it btw, just didn't like FN's personality and hated having Rey forced on us along with the joke that is emo boy. Bet he hides and cuts himself with his saber now while fapping to torture fantasies of Rey. lol...

    Anyway, I'd totally watch it again... once it hits regular TV in a few years...

    Going to see The Revenant today. Hope it's good.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I was just giving you some more back story that I heard.

    I firmly believe any Star Wars fans that have serious problems with this movie, do so because of nostalgia. The reason I say that is because the the other movies are at best just as flawed as this one and for the same reasons and at worst terribly more flawed than this one for the same reasons plus others. In fact, as a Star Wars fan in my childhood only, I felt this was the most fun of all the previous movies and therefore my favorite.
     
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  31. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    As someone who has read quite a few of the books my disapointment is that they went so far away from them.

    Outside of that i enjoyed it.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You probably know, but in case you don't, they erased all of that from the cannon. The only thing official Star Wars anymore is the previous trilogies, the Clone Wars cartoon and the coming cartoon, plus any official novelizations related to FA and going forward (and maybe a video game or two, not sure).
     
  33. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Oh i know.. I can still be disapointed by it though!

    The story line choices they could have had with all 3 of the kids was enormous.
     
  34. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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  35. ScottishFin

    ScottishFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Saw The Last Jedi earlier today (yaay for midnight showings), going to be a lot of polarised views about this one. Does some really tremendous things and some utterly WTF moments but overall a very very good Star Wars film IMO. Others will not like it as it does some different things from what a lot of people would expect to see.

    2 moments are just absoutely epic and you will give out a cheer if thats your thing.
     
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  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm mostly going to try and avoid all info about the film until I'm able to see it in about a week and a half. Wish me luck.
     
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  37. JDelenne

    JDelenne Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just got home from the theater. I enjoyed the movie. I don’t think it was what I expected to be, but still good. Not as good as Episode VII imo
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I just got home from the theater after watching Episode VIII.

    I thought the movie was fine. Felt like a deconstruction and rebuilding of what JJ Abrams did in Episode VII, rather than building off of it. Which made it interesting.

    I will probably have to see it a second time since I have too invested in Star Wars. Much better than that god awful Rogue One movie and all of the prequels.
     
  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    LOL, i just watched The Force Awakens and Rogue One this week in preperation, and love them both. I was honestly a bit unsure two years ago what to expect, but I'm really excited for the Last Jedi Now. Highest personal expectations.
     
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  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Apr 22, 2014
    Saw the movie last night. Mixed feelings but overall I left disappointed.

    There was some beautiful filming, some great characters, so clever bits and pieces, but mostly I found it lacking as a 'Star Wars' movie. Felt like the writer just didn't care for the 'old' Star Wars lore and feel and really wanted to move in a different direction. Out with the old in with the new.

    If you're familiar with anime, this, to me, felt more like a 'slice of life' Star Wars approach, rather than an episode in an epic saga, which, to me, Star Wars should be.

    Oh and that 'parody' moment with the "ship" landing.... there's humour and then there's humour.

    More and more I believe they've handled these sequels wrongly.
    They should have just one writer/team for the whole trilogy and one story to tell.
    They failed to build on the original story and instead repeated too much.

    Overall, these movies feel, to me, like Star Wars fan films, than a legitimate continuation/termination of the story.
     
    vmarcilfan75 and cuchulainn like this.

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