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Merge: Report: Joe Philbin wanted to replace Ryan Tannehill with Derek Carr

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by muskrat21, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Thanks for posting that. I had honestly started to forget about what an absolute clueless dumass of a coach Philbin was. I feel better about how the season turned out now.
     
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  2. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    If what Mando is reporting is true, it's almost like he was being sabotaged by his head coach. Maybe that's how guys like Dallas Thomas and Jason Fox have managed to stick around.
     
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  3. OkiePhin

    OkiePhin Well-Known Member

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    Name 5 on the team that are better? LOL..

    Pouncey, James, Albert..........
     
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  4. OkiePhin

    OkiePhin Well-Known Member

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    Well last season everyone was saying Jason Fox and Billy Turner were the answer and should be given the nod. No, the reason Fox and Thomas are still on the team is because the FO didn't address the need.

    How many people have changed opinions of Tanny this season? He has lost a lot of support. Maybe Philbin was right. Time will tell. Just for the record, I like Tanny and think we need better Oline play but I could be wrong..
     
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  5. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Im a Carr fan.... But behind Philbins o-line? .... Lmao.... What a hindsight statement to make, if true. Philbin also clinged to Sherman, who endorsed Tannehill. It will be nice to see Tannehill under a coach who knows what he's doing.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I want to take yet another opportunity to apologize for my defense of Philbin again.

    I was incredibly stupid.
     
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  7. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we fought pretty good on that one. Not the same as Irish. But good. I hated the Philbin hire, and he was actually better than I thought he'd be. I thought we would be worse than just mediocre. Hated the way the team always quit on him at the season's end.

    I like the Gase hire though. No need to witch hunt OC's. Regis and Cam had that "gomer" aura about them. Totally lost guys, who couldn't lead. This is a different kind of football mind with Gase. I like the direction Miami is going in. I like the technology and the progressive staff and front office we have put in place. We have a forward thinking coach now, and I think better times are ahead. Hope we lock down a solid staff, and enter free-agent with momentum.

    I remember the disgust this time last, after retaining Philbin and Coyle. Feels pretty good to be a fan right now, especially after beating up Brady pretty good to conclude the season.
     
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  8. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I, too, want to apologize for my defense of Philbin.
     
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  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Tanne did develop under Philbin. Remember, he kept improving every year?
     
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  10. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ding
     
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  11. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yes, and yet Philbin wanted him replaced. Why? Probably because Philbin was a ****ty coach who didn't know how to deal with players. He probably also wanted a scapegoat to support his friend Mike Sherman.

    I'd also like to apologize for defending Joe Philbin for too long. My bad.
     
  12. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I think Carr is already better than Tannehill. We'll see if Ryan can elevate this year.

    That said, the report shows just how dysfunctional this place really was under Philbin.

    You hire Mike Sherman and draft his QB, hitching the franchise's future to him. Then, in effort to save Sherman's job, you throw his QB under the bus and blame him for the team's failures.

    HELLO..... YOU DRAFTED THE GUY. He was your QB. If he goes, you go too.

    - sent via Tapatalk -
     
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  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thing with Tannehill is the inconsistency, will not forget the 30 yd scramble on 3rd and long for a first down, great throw to get us inside the ten yd line, then was not even close to converting a Td, the throws were waaaay off the mark

    Then Douglas had the misque on the snap count, to me when you are determined to have a "young" roster, these things will happen time after time, they are learning on the job.

    To me, THill answered critics on his deep passing, me being one of them, now he has to answer his critics about not being a "winner" and making things happen.

    Where I agree with Deej is it was obvious Tannehill was being handcuffed via Philbin, whom I suspect simply did not trust his decision making so played close to vest, stay in the pocket, go through your reads do not improvise..very ol Cautious Coach Joe
     
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  14. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I think there's merit to that. He's not truly been trusted his entire career here. Hard to be confident with that in the front of your mind.

    Coach him up, let Marino in, give him ownership of the offense and let it rip.

    - sent via Tapatalk -
     
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  15. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Nothing says, "I don't care about my QB" more, than assigning Zack Taylor as the QB coach.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Him improving does not mean that it wasn't in spite of Philbin and the team around him. I think there's a good chance he would have shown more improvement had he had a competent oline and competent coaches.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And?
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    For me, the "proof" is found in making Wr's better players. Landry, Matthews, Miller, even Parker showed out a bit.

    players who underperformed where Jordan and Jennings, mostly due to miscast or other guys being ready to step in

    This with Guard play that is consistently the worst in the league.

    In 07, the roster was devestated and devoid of talent, in 16, the roster is fine with some tweaks

    Do really believe we need a stud MLB, the franchise hung it's hat on a procession of HoF worthy MLB's, we have had a bunch of dudes at MLB
     
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  19. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill has slowly been whittling away his biggest weaknesses. I remember a lot of criticism when he came out about him not throwing well to the middle of the field which he does pretty well now, IMO. I think he got better with his pocket mobility (though he still has a lot of room for improvement). I think his footwork has gotten better as well.

    This season he proved that he can throw the deep ball and was actually pretty good at it. He managed to improve his YPA and finally get it over 7.

    Obviously his efficiency came down a bit, but I think a lot of it had to do with:

    1) lack of chemistry with some of the new receivers
    2) bad OL play
    3) lack of overall support from the coaching staff and others involved with the team (cough Miko)

    I think he probably felt he was kind of on his own and it may have hindered his confidence and overall output.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I still think he has a lot to work on... but considering everything he's been through, it's a wonder he actually managed to put up the numbers he had throughout his carreer.

    I think the one thing he needs to do to prove his doubters wrong now is to put the team on his back and make things happen when the game is on the line. He needs to improve his 4th quarter efficiency and win some games when it's not his business to win them. When/if he starts doing that, he'll start to gain respect from everyone who has been doubting him.
     
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  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I agree with your first sentence, that he's been slowly getting rid of his weaknesses, but the rate at which he was doing that the first 3 years didn't continue into the 4th.

    There are 3 things IMO that if Tannehill improves on (regardless of supporting cast) he becomes a franchise QB: 1) better pocket awareness (shifting away from pressure as well as knowing when to run), 2) 4th quarter comeback wins, and 3) consistency in level of play.

    He does those things, I don't care how bad his W/L record is or surrounding cast is and I'm sold. He doesn't do those things, I'll still have serious doubts.
     
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  21. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Exactly where he belongs. And maybe he can pick something up for his queasiness while he's there.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Let's talk 4th quarter wins. I watched Wilson get a 4th quarter win today. His defense held the Vikings to 3 points for at least one half. After the td, the defense strips Peterson. They hold the Vikings to 9 points, along with the kicker missing at the end. I'm sure people will pull the "Wilson is CLUTCH," out on me , but I don't care. Wilson was getting sacked, and could not move the ball. Yes, it was cold, whatever. Point is, 4th quarter wins are about so much more than the QB.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Another thing, as far as consistency...I think you are saying you want game to game consistency, because his yearly numbers have been pretty consistent the last couple seasons.
     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    RW didn't play well today and the Seahawks are lucky to have won that. There's nothing wrong with taking a microscope to "4th quarter comeback wins" stats and saying in this or that case the QB wasn't the main reason for the win, and for today's game I agree.

    But on average, that stat does tell you something about the QB because while some % of 4th quarter comeback wins shouldn't be credited to the QB, some % of failed 4th quarter comebacks should be blamed on the QB. Things tend to average out with many of these arguments so it's a useful stat.


    And yes I mean game-to-game consistency. I don't want to think Tannehill is a franchise QB after one game then think it's best to get rid of him after another. If he's going to be a good game manager for us, where we rely on a good surrounding cast to win, then game-to-game consistency is important.
     
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  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I agree, cbrad, but, it's important to look at how often some QBs have a chance at a fourth quarter win, due to the defense keeping the game so close. When looking at 4th quarter wins, it simply is not enough to look at the record. There is so much else that goes into it. Today's game was just a good example. I mean, if were talking about Russel Wilson and the playoffs, he's had two games, this one and the one last year that I got a 24 hr ban during, where his defense kept him in it. He played like crap, but got the win. Again, just two examples, but they illustrate my point.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    To put it another way: which QB would you say has, on average, the better chance at a 4th quarter comeback: the one whose defense on average gives up 16 points per game over the past 4 years, or the QB whose defense gives up significantly more than that?
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    LOL since you insist on bringing up Russell Wilson...

    [​IMG]

    He turned that into a 35 yd completion.

    That's why he's one of the best in the NFL, if not the best.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, definitely the average point differential for a 4th quarter comeback would be a useful form of context when comparing two QB's. But if you remember how I've argued about Tannehill's stats on 4th quarter comebacks, you'll remember I don't use the 4th quarter comeback stat per se (partly because of the problem you mention), instead I use his stats while trailing with <2 or <4 minutes left. The bigger the point differential, the BETTER his stats should be because the opponent should care less about letting us score (i.e. garbage time stats).

    So when you see a difference in the trailing stats that's abnormal, especially given the general argument that the defense lets us down more than for other teams, then you know you have a problem.
     
  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah that play I remember.. was real good. But there were a ton of plays that were bad. I mean he overthrew people, there was a long-ball underthrow as bad as the worst Tannehill has been accused of (should've been a TD), etc..

    This wasn't one of RW's better games, though I agree he's a really good QB. And yeah I do think the cold had something to do with it.
     
  30. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Philbin came in with high expectations as an offensive genius and had worked with Aaron Rogers. Naturally you would assume he would be a large factor in Tannehills development.

    Btw, you do realize a huge factor in hiring Gase is to.......further develop Ryan Tannehill, don't you?

    And WTH? Every college player that enters the NFL needs to be developed.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, it's amazing that the defense let the receiver run free so that Wilson could chuck it to him. The defense didn't stick to their assignments.
     
  32. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    His passes weren't so much the problem as it was his receivers.

    His efficiency was down in large part because we were in a lot of must-pass situations.

    I hope he can learn to improvise and process what's going on on the field a little faster in the years to come.

    We have to get better on first down as an offense, and I suspect you will see improvement across the board.
     
  33. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to change the subject, but in defense of both quarterbacks in that game, it was -2 degrees Fahrenheit in windy conditions. To throw a ball accurately in those conditions can be a tough task for any QB in the NFL.
     
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  34. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah man. No need to get defensive brotha'. I was just referring to the comments that Philbin didn't know how to develop talent and that was regarding Tanne. I supported Philbin quite a bit. I do with any Phin player or coach until they've worn out there welcome. I've admitted that it was certainly time to see him go.
     
  35. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    For the love of God, please stop talking about Wilson. It's just a petty argument at this point any time you try to draw some parallel.

    That's our beloved Resnor though .... always "adjusting" the narrative. If that were Tannehill out there he'd be adding the "weather" to the list of things potentially restraining his performance.
     
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  36. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 2022 Mother's Day and May Flowers!

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    Just hope that the Gase era will be a smooth transition. Just Philbin was not the right fit for the team.
     
  37. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    You missed the point, at least of his post in this thread. He was criticizing the 4th quarter comeback as a reasonable way to measure QB's success, and not so much Wilson.
     
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  38. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    It's most definitely an important metric. Much more important than reading off lazy "yardage" totals.
     
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  39. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    They're both poor/incomplete, imo.
     
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  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not saying he's right, since I've been against him since hired, and Hard Knocks just confirmed my opinion. But throughout last season and the offseason, I mentioned quite a few times his coaches throwing him under the bus, including Philbin and Lazor. Remember Lazor at the time was a wunderkind and this forum hadn't soured on him yet. And the Tannehill Defense Force came up with reason after reason of why I was taking those comments out of context.

    Well, turns out, neither coach thought much of Tannehill. So some on the TDF need to rethink how objective they really are. Because it was OBVIOUS from last year, Philbin and Lazor didn't think highly of Tannehill, yet some were convinced they were, and their public comments just meant something else.
     

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