1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

La Canfora: Gase entering treacherous waters in Miami

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Comparing any college player, from any round is simply not an accurate comparison to a rookie head coach. Main reason being, a rookie head coach doesn't have previous head coaching experience that someone can examine and rate. A rookie QB has college tape, usually as a QB that one can review.

    What? Not sure that this is even an actual sentence, much less a complete thought. You didn't ever answer your "how many are successful" question. Then you go on to say that the "successful" coaches skew the win%. Again...what??

    Please tell us how you define a successful head coach.

    So much here...again, what is "success rate?" You say it's more important than win percentage, but never tell us what "success rate" actually is, although it's the important stat that we should be looking at.

    Then, you tell us that you don't know any actual numbers, but the answer is easy. Really? If it were so easy, then why not post the numbers?

    You then say most fail, but can't give actual numbers, but, still, we don't know how you're defining "success," so we also don't know now what it means to "fail."


    You then double down on all this ridiculousness with this absolute gem.

    Amazing. Well played.
     
    Steve-Mo likes this.
  2. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    LOL

    WOW, just holy freakin WOW.

    I'll do some grammar school simplification for you, k;

    If 100 1st time HCs are hired and only 10 of them are successful, then what is the success rate?

    If you answered 10%, then you're correct.

    Success = good at their job.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    If win percentage isn't relevant, how are you quantifying success? Why do you refuse to answer this question?
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

    5,649
    1,853
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    DC
    If the SB or Playoffs aren't your criteria for being good at their job, what is? Todd Bowles is a first time coach with a winning record that didn't make the playoffs, does that mean he's a failure? How long do they get to be good at their job?
     
    Ohio Fanatic likes this.
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Time to move on guys.

    If Finster defines "success" then great, but if not I think we can all agree "success" for a HC is some weighting of wins and win %, both over regular season, playoffs and SB. Each person can choose their personal weights on those 6 categories but otherwise it comes down to wins and win %.
     
  6. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

    6,053
    5,608
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Lake Worth, Fl.
    He just asked you multiple valid questions and you keep skirting them. I'm interested in your definition as well.....
     
    Fin D and resnor like this.
  7. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    I do believe he is defining success in terms of how many first time head coaches actually last in the league. Success is winning and staying in the league as opposed to flaming out like Cameron and Philphin.
     
    Finster likes this.
  8. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

    2,129
    909
    113
    Mar 29, 2008
    Orlando, FL
    Finster, you're Stephen Ross and you need to hire a coach. Obviously, you are looking for the most successful coach - someone who is really good at his job. How do you separate the successful coaches from the unsuccessful ones? What criteria are you looking at to narrow down the field?
     
  9. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

    2,129
    909
    113
    Mar 29, 2008
    Orlando, FL
    That's how you wind up with a Jeff Fisher.
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Troll post.

    How are you determining that those 10 are successful?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Except he specifically stated that success rate is separate from wins.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    No.
     
    resnor likes this.
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Every coach.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    No to which part? To move on or that success is some combination of wins and win % across regular season vs. playoffs vs. SB?
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Time to move on.

    He's insulting people with false incredulity and won't even answer a simple question about his stance.

    That is EXACTLY the type of thing that happens at Finheaven and a major part of why that place sucks. Its been happening a lot here lately and it seems to be from the recent exiles from that place.
     
    resnor likes this.
  16. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

    2,553
    1,793
    113
    Mar 14, 2015
    This place is nothing like Finheaven. Thankfully.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    I see..

    Well at least we agree on what's important to me which is the key components of defining success for a HC.

    Anyway I'll sit on the sidelines until the next topic. Just try to keep the back-and-forth entertaining will ya :wink2:
     
  18. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    Well, it is a somewhat entertaining thread to get to this point debating what is 'success'. Doesn't that mean different things to different people?

    Are we really fighting over what is a successful coach? Winning more than losing is the deal... right?
     
    Finster likes this.
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Not, apparently, to Finster. In fairness, I sort of agree. A coach of a ****ty team shouldn't be judged in the short term, on wins. But he should be able to help build a team, and have positive things people can point to that he is being successful at.

    But Finster hasn't actually told us what he defines as success.
     
    dgfred likes this.
  20. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    OK, I'll post it again;

    Success = being good at your job.
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    How do you define being good at your job as an NFL coach? Wins? Win %? Playoffs? Super Bowls?
     
    dgfred and resnor like this.
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    And that means what, exactly, to you? This should be easy for you to answer.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Keeping shoes tied and no gum wrappers on the field?
     
    dgfred likes this.
  24. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

    2,129
    909
    113
    Mar 29, 2008
    Orlando, FL
    Bravo.
     
    resnor and Fin D like this.
  25. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    most coaches , well all coaches , don't last if they don't win..... but maybe you can find stats that prove otherwise.

    and just for the record Fisher has a winning record in his NFL career and has been to playoffs and a Super Bowl.
     
  26. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

    902
    438
    63
    Sep 12, 2012
    Well, uh, okay.
     
    resnor, dgfred and Fin D like this.
  27. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

    2,129
    909
    113
    Mar 29, 2008
    Orlando, FL
    He's finished with a winning record 2 times in the past 12 years, and his Superbowl appearance came 17 years ago (the length of Dan Marino's career). In the last 12 years his win percentage is .460.

    A few losing years here or there or gradual improvement out of the Rams, and maybe I'd think differently, but I think he's flamed out as you put it.
     
    resnor likes this.
  28. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    The team responding and playing well within the boundaries of their limitations, you know, a good HC.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    So win % is irrelevant, but this nebulous piece of non committal rhetoric is what we're supposed to use?

    By that definition, it could be argued that Philbin was a good coach.
     
  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    We all know how much you loved Philbin, but no one would say that the team responded and played well within the boundaries of their limitations while your boy was here, so there's that...
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Our roster, apparently sucks. Getting to .500 two years in a row with a such a bad team and QB (according to you) is amazing coaching following your definition.
     
    dgfred and resnor like this.
  32. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

    902
    438
    63
    Sep 12, 2012
    I think that in order for an NFL head coach's season to be successful, you need to win a playoff game. Has any head coach been fired after a season in which they won a playoff game? I know Marty Schottenheimer got fired for going 14-2, but they lost after the bye week.
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Bill Parcells was fired after taking NE all the way to the Super Bowl in the 1996 season and losing there. Parcells wanted more control and Kraft vetoed it.

    Also, Jimmy Johnson "retired" after the 1999 season where we won the Wild Card game but lost 62-7 to the Jags in the Divisional playoffs, though you could argue he fired himself.
     
    Steve-Mo likes this.
  34. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

    4,355
    397
    83
    Apr 14, 2010
    Western New York
    I don't think that has happened. Closest I can think of is Jimmy Johnson "mutually parting ways" with the Cowboys after winning back-to-back superbowls.

    EDIT: Beat to the punch for Jimmy. Dolphins one is a better example anyway.
     

Share This Page