Is #1 true though? Say for leadership? You can posit the existence of something called leadership, specify a hypothetical relationship with stats, then say leadership did this or that. But that's not validating its existence. How would you validate the existence of leadership independently of the effect you hypothesize is a result of it? #2 is true if you're arguing just based on stats we have at the moment. At some point though you have to accept the limitations of current stats (theoretically you can get far more discerning stats from a football game) and say the stats we have are insufficient to make a case. So yes you're right they have no proof given stats we have, but that doesn't mean they're not onto something. I think I'd just stick with having no proof given the stats we have at the moment and not go so far and say their intuition is wrong.
You can identify things that show leadership. It's why we can define leadership. These may have nothing to do with stats. Sidenote, being down 31 in the second, does the rest of the game count as garbage time now?
Not to push this too far (I don't really care too much) but how are you defining leadership, in ways that can be identified/measured?
Leadership can be many things... Supporting your coach, not throwing teammates under the bus, first one in the facility to watch tape, running drills the hardest, calling out underperforming teammates, helping teammates learn the playbook, saying the right things in front of cameras, pushing for the extra yard, hopping right up after his, etc, etc. I'm simply saying, there are a myriad of proofs for all these "intangibles."
OK, fair enough. I'll just say that for me I'd definitely include the ability to rally a team when it looks like things aren't going well so that the team performs better than average in tough situations. That for me includes 4th quarter comebacks, just saying.
Yeah, my only issue is, that in spite of how well a QB might be capable of playing, it requires multiple people to make 4th quarter comebacks happen.
...... and yet Wilson didn't fold like a cheap suit being down 31-0. He lead their offense to 24 unanswered second half points vs. a defense that had their ears pinned back. Here in Miami we'd be blaming anyone and everyone else as to why the offense couldn't get back in the game.
lol. If they had a real QB they would be going for their third or fourth straight super bowl trophy. Can you imagine Phillip rivers on that team russell wilson interception machine vs good defenses. Wouldn't be surprised if Seattle drafts a pocket passer in the next yr or two. We'll see how long it takes Carroll to realize his mistake. What a waste of that great defense
Where did I say those things don't exist? I said if you want to argue if a person has them, then you should probably be able to define them. I also said you have a major problem defining things you spout.
You can believe whatever you want. I don't much care. All I'm saying is that if you want to tell me QB X doesn't have the Y intangible or the Z intangible, then explain what specifically you mean by it. Its like color. You can say something is blue and want to discuss or argue the aesthetic of that blue, and I maybe picturing an entirely different shade then what you're thinking of. How are we going to have a meaningful or even non confrontational discussion/argument about blue if we're talking about two different shades? Same goes for most of the intangibles. "Leadership", "It factor", "drive" can have different shades. Or intangible concepts like "4th quarter comebacks", "choking", etc. can often rely HEAVILY on other players, playcalling, setting, whatever.
4th quarter comebacks are precisely defined and not intangible: "An offensive scoring drive in the 4th quarter, with the team trailing by one score, though not necessarily a drive to take the lead." And sure they are influenced by a lot of things. But I think most agree the QB is one of the biggest influences, so it makes sense to talk about 4th quarter comebacks when talking about QB's.
They are intangible for the reason I gave, they cannot be all on the QB. Its literally impossible. So to say so and so is great at 4th quarter comebacks, you aren't really defining their skill at it, because so much besides their skill is involved, that you're really talking about an impression. And its THAT, that makes an intangible. They are not the biggest factor. The defense is every bit as much of a factor in 4th Q comebacks.
That's not the way people use the word "intangible". Using your definition, then EVERYTHING is intangible because we can't precisely know all influences on it. 4th quarter comebacks are defined and not intangible. Not gonna argue this with you.
Sigh. You're so effing annoying sometimes. You argue with me, then tell me you're not gonna argue. Its cowardly and arrogant. My definition does not make EVERYTHING intangible, that's just ridiculous. A QB can do everything he's supposed to for a 4th Q comeback and the defense can let the other team march down the field and win the game. That's a little different then your ignorant over generalization. You making that claim is as dumb as me saying your stance means the QB is responsible for everything that happens on the football field and off it.
The Tannehill lovers simply are shameless when looking ridiculous as long as they think it apologizes for whatever reason they feel Ryan is being held back. Pretending intangibles do not exist, calling the 2nd quarter of a playoff game garbage time, claiming numbers when arguing FOR Ryan then dismissing or excusing Ryan for his numbers compared to (X). After the shnit storm that was the 2015 season we have people claiming Ryan is a top 10 QB....which to anyone with any football aptitude would laugh at. I forgot how bad these guys struggled in these discussions before yesterday....congrats..yiu ARE what I thought you were. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not really. The timing on this this, couldn't be more impeccable. http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...s-recruiting-class-dolphins-marlins-heat.html
To the people who say that Ryan doesn't have intangibles, how many other QBs in the league would not only play, but help the team win against the frigging Pats a week after peeing blood because he is beat up so bad from continuously getting beaten up because of a terrible offensive line? And in a game in which he could have mailed it in because the Dolphins had nothing to play for?
Yeah, we're looking for the intangibles that help while the team is still in the playoff hunt. Yeah those intangibles.
I would agree that Tannehill isn't very vocal from what we can see on the field. I would also agree that could be an area he needs to work on. But that doesn't mean he shows no leadership qualities. I've already mentioned 1 area where I believe he shows leadership.
You look for your intangibles. We'll look to upgrade our offensive line. It's really going to be amazing to see how tannehill's intangibles improve with a better oline. At least Gase gets it
True but we finally got a coach who understands how important it is. It's no coincidence our front office said upgrading our oline is priority number one, namely guards. We are finally going to have a professional offense
They've been trying to upgrade it. Tannenbaum was here last year. We drafted a Jamil. Jawuan the year before. Not sure how much we can depend on Albert. A few good guards did go in the 2nd round last year but we drafted Landry. Let's just wait and see on oline. It takes 2-3 years to build a good one.
I don't think they're drafting the guards. I think they're going free agency for at least one of them. We don't have three years to develop a lineman from college. We need immediate starters
Looks like we have an early candidate for dumbest post of the year...11 months to go but it might be hard to top this gem.