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Dolphins hire Colts QB coach Clyde Christenson as OC

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FinSane, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    There is a reason it would be though. If your offensive line is already among the worst, it is going to be exponentially worse when the defense KNOWS its a pass on its way three or four downs in a row.

    Also a huge difference in being down 1-2-3 points and 4 or more.
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    In most physical/biological/social systems, it's the opposite. If you perform at a low level on average, you have less margin to drop even lower, so all other things being equal you should see the greatest increases/decreases for teams right around average (if you randomly choose one or the other from a realistic distribution) because they have the ability to increase or decrease performance the most just by the nature of the scale everyone is put on.

    Being down by more points than average works for, not against, the stats. The greater the point differential when you're trailing, the more the opponent will be willing to let you score, so you'd expect better performance not worse.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Being down by a score or less, the defense most certainly is teeing of on Tannehill, knowing full well that Tannehill gets zero protection. Tannehill's choices are usually take a massive hit and get sacked, or take a massive hit while throwing to the guy open short.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Totally agree.. but none of that invalidates the argument I've made about comparing relative drop-offs in performance.
     
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The other thing, cbrad. Is that often, even in the fourth quarter of games, teams could rush four players, and get quick pressure on Tannehill.

    That stuff makes a huge difference.
     
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    haha! yeah resnor, I'm not disagreeing with any of that either. Only way that's going to change the validity of that drop-off comparison is if you can show stats for the influence of "teams rushing only 4 players" vs. "teams rushing more than 4 players" on QB performance across the league, and show what it is for the Dolphins. Give me those stats and I'll condition on them.

    Absent that, the simple analysis does show Tannehill is worse than average at those trailing situations in the 4th quarter.

    No need to fight it dude. I go wherever the data leads, you should know that by now. Doesn't mean Tannehill sucks!
     
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  7. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    It's not a bad theory, makes sense. But it's still just a theory. You'd have to drill down and really see if defenses were relaxing while ahead.

    My guess is youd find more conservative play in the secondary but more aggressive pass rushing from the defensivery line. More passing from the offense, but less ability to use the run to set up the pass. It kind of evens out, no?
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, but you don't know if you're using complete data. That should bug you more than it does me.

    Really, I've been arguing for years that the data on pressures is severely lacking. If someone wanted to pay me to watch film for eight hours a day, I'd sit at home and slow-mo my way through thousands of hours of game tape to properly investigate the pressure situation.

    I don't see that happening any time soon, though.
     
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  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Would be nice to have more data for sure!

    Anyway, I know the data I'm using isn't anywhere near complete. But it's all I have to work with, so that's what I'll go with. This would be different if I saw with my own eyes something that explained that abnormal drop-off in 4th quarter trailing situations. I just don't see anything obvious, so until proven otherwise I have to say the QB shares a decent part of the blame (along with other parts of the team) because of his influence on the game.
     
  10. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    The idea that Tanny NEVER gets protection and is harassed on every single one of those down and distances is blatantly false. It's part of the hyperbolic narrative used in his defense.
     
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  11. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    He doesn't have that data for you. It's easier to speak in generalities.
     
  12. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Because most of them are nothing more than arm chair QBs who learned what they know about football from Madden?
     
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  13. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    If we're arm chairs then you're the foot stool. I mean how ironic could you be? You never played in the NFL.
     
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  14. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    more money!
     
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  15. argos31

    argos31 Member

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    Sounds nice, but how much impact does a QB coach have? He probably had next to no impact on Manning who was his own coach (hopefully he learned from Manning), and Luck hasn't progressed much at all.
     
  16. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I think you should look at Luck's player page again. I'll link it for you so you can check that out more easily. http://www.nfl.com/player/andrewluck/2533031/profile
     
  17. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I wasnt talking about actual stats but rather win/loss coming from behind.
     
  18. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Every down? No.

    Every drive? Id actually say yes just about, but again no-one has actual statistics one way or another. All it takes is one sack or poor block on 3rd down to kill a drive. Now you're playing from behind if you do happen to get decent protection.
     
  19. hatchettjack

    hatchettjack Member

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    Impossible to rate tannehill in the clutch! Because the opponents rush always beats our pocket when they need to in the clutch!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Every day I look around here I am amazed at the lack of support for RT from Phin fans. I don't understand it... and don't understand why we are not discussing the rest of the team more often. The Miller FA is a giant question IMO. If we don't sign him... Aj doesn't rise up to the spot we are going to be in a running game mess. Our defense--- HOW CAN WE FIX IT? or at least get it to decent.
     
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  21. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The board was a lot more evenly split on Tannehill before last season. Some didn't think much of him but others thought he'd easily be top 10 this year. The lack of support by so many is mostly due to the lack of continued improvement people were expecting (based on his first 3 years). Tannehill more or less plateaued off with a few exceptions (deep ball did get better for sure).

    So you're right about there being other problems on the team, and one big one we've talked about: coaching. But the QB is highly influential and it's no surprise there's so much discussion about Tannehill whichever side you're on (just saying you shouldn't be surprised by the lack of support).
     
  22. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Still shocked in a way. RT is far from the team's 'problem'. Easy to see.
     
  23. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    QB is the heart of an NFL team, the most important player on the team, by a long shot, arguably the most important player in all of team sports, in fact, the job of a QB is SO difficult that there is only a handful of good ones in the entire world at any given time.

    The thing is, if your QB isn't part of the solution, then you have an issue, and imo, as far as his play goes, Tanne isn't part of the problem, but at the same time he isn't part of the solution, which makes him part of the landscape, and if your QB is part of the landscape then the team has a QB issue.

    This is why he is such a topic, and that should be easy to see imo.
     
  24. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    How do you know he is not part of the solution? That seems to be the 'big' problem. Lack of confidence and insight IMO.
     
  25. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    He hasn't proven it, it's pretty simple.
     
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  26. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    So prediction of future is based on what he has done so far under terrible conditions? Right.

    I thought maybe the critism would calm down a bit... instead you pounce and turn it on some more.

    Do you want what is best for the team... or just don't like RT? You are proving it is the latter more and more.

    RT is NOT the problem and will NOT be.
     
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  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Like I said, I don't think he's a "problem", I just don't think he's part of the solution, because he isn't clutch, and I'm not turning anything on more, I've been saying the same thing.
     
  28. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'm pretty sure that first sentence is completely false. I believe a good majority of fans were firmly behind Tannehill before this last season. That's why it boggles my mind that so many people were quick to turn their backs on him.
     
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well I'm only going based on memory, but this is what I remember:

    1) In multiple threads and I think at least one poll, we found out that most posters thought Tannehill should be ranked between 10-15, with some saying he's already top 10 and other saying he's mediocre at best. I'm very certain on this one btw

    2) There were just tons of Tannehill threads where you had entire groups of posters on each side of the Tannehill debate, not just arguing who was at fault for what (e.g. deep ball), but who thought he was a franchise QB.

    Now I don't know if #2 was really just about individual flaws of Tannehill and had nothing to do with supporting him, but my memory says this board was far more evenly split on whether Tannehill was our franchise QB before this season vs. after.

    Memory can be wrong of course, so if others want to chime in and say what they remember I'd welcome it.
     
  30. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I wasn't talking about rankings per se. I just meant the number of people that simply supported him and were behind him. It sticks out because, as I mentioned, I was stunned at how many people turned on him so quickly. I'm not even just talking about here. On Twitter before the season Tannehill seemed beloved by the majority of people.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The difference is this season the negative guys came back out of the shadows, and we picked up some new ones from other sites, so the whole anti-Tannehill vibe picked up a head of steam again.
     
  32. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Dgfred...it sounds like you're pushing an agenda here. He CLEARLY said RT was not part of the problem or solution. Then clarified he thinks as being part of the landscape then he thinks the team has a QB issue. Don't push your “you just don't like RT” agenda.
     
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  33. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    What? I was commenting on all the negativity towards RT. If you don't think 'being part of the landscape' is not negative... that is up to you. My agenda is for my team to get better with the more than average QB they have under contract at this moment. I don't see him as the problem... I see the OL and defense as the problems. That ain't agenda... that is reality.
    Saying your QB is not the problem or the solution isn't exactly a positive statement.

    But hey... it is always the same two or three that insist on making RT 'the' problem. Some how, some way. I am learning.
     
  34. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So by this line of reason only a handful teams don't have a QB issue?
     
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  35. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I think most Dolphins fans just have extremely high standards for a QB (ie. Marino), and will always hold their QB to those standards, and that is a shame because it's likely we will never have another Marino again. I'm from the camp that we should enjoy what we have right now in Tannehill because we CAN win games with him given the right team around him. The one thing we need to do though is support him, because by not doing that we are actually making things worse for the team.

    FWIW, I think the one guy who is done the worst damage in terms of feeding the fire for the whole anti-Tannehill movement is Omar Kelly (honorable mention to Miko Grimes) and the sooner he is gone to cover another team or sport, the better off we will be.
     
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  36. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Yes... I showed in a post earlier all the different teams and their QB problems/issues/pros/cons/etc.

    Then I got smashed about saying Rivers and Romo were waaay past their prime and hurting their teams more than helping get to the SB.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How is having a QB issue different from the QB being a problem?

    LMAO
     

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