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So you don't need great QB play...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Shane Falco, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'll be honest and say that I don't think Carolina is nearly as good as perceived. The NFL as a whole seemed a bit more balanced talent wise which led to a few "really good" teams looking elite.

    For example Denver was terrible offensively all year. New England was a shell compared to their former selves. Carolina had some very tight games against poor competition. I thought Arizona and Seattle were better teams than Carolina in terms of body of work and team strengths (not just head to head match ups which can be impacted by one key player having a really off day).

    Really there was no complete and dominant team in the NFL this year. Carolina had a great record but as many holes as everyone else.
     
  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    oddly all those teams have good QB's too. except houston. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Thill is better or as good as the QBs for Denver, KC, Houston, Cincy, Arizona, Minny, Washington.
     
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  4. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    God I wish we had him. I think that Tanny is good enough to win a SB. We just need a D like Denver. I didn't think that they would shut down Cam like that.
     
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  5. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Fed Ex me those good drugs you are taking.


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  6. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Meh, I thought the Pats could've beaten the Panthers also...We've already got a Miller in Dion if we can just let him play LB. Denver's interior line play was impressive. They consistently stymied the run. I think we could have that if Phillips blossoms. We need Lippet to blossom, also. Draft Ramsey or Hargreaves and keep Wake. Bobby McCain is a great slot corner already. Really hurts that we didn't snatch up Denzel Perryman in the second rd last year, although we did make hay in the fifth round.

    It's tough though. Great defenses just seem to fall into place. Dion Jordan really tripped up the process. If he is salvageable, then we have a lot less to think about.

    I agree that the best way to help the defense is with the offensive line right now.
     
  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree with your assessment of the needs on defense. The Dolphins should try to fill their offensive line needs in free agency and spend this entire draft in an attempt to start rebuilding the defense.

    I don't see them winning more than 5 or 6 games next year. So they should have another top ten pick in 2017 to keep bringing in younger talent for the defense and the offensive line.

    Gase might turn out to be a decent head coach in time, but this team is two or three solid drafts from being a legitimate playoff contender. So they need to ensure that the draft picks they select, especially in the early rounds, are players who can come in and contribute immediately and are players they can build the future around.
     
  8. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    When did you call that again? Do you remember in what thread or maybe a screen grab would do. Yeah... sweat for Cam and sweet for the Broncos.
     
  9. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    I told my brother Denver was gonna take it before the playoffs began, like I care about proving myself to you. And I've been saying the NFC is garbage all year to people I actually know and talk to, whether or not I can prove that to you means nothing to me but on this site alone I'm always s****** on over rated NFC teams lol. Ask JDang whatever his name is about our debates as to how elite Matt Ryan was when he was 5-0 this year. I knew he was over rated like the rest of the NFC even when he was hot, what a beautiful year this year ended up being. HOW BOUT THOSE BRONCOOSSSSSSS, WHOOOOHOOOOOOO. AFC RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. Man-U

    Man-U New Member

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    Yeah that's some BS right there. And Dion is Miami's Von Miller??? That's funny
     
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  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Which of those qbs I listed do you feel is better?
     
  12. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Are better or has performed better?

    Alex Smith and Carson Palmer are not even a question for each....Kirk Cousins looked better this year than Ryan ever has although I'm not sure that the ability gap is nearly as big. I have a low opinion on Dalton but its hard to call Ryan Tannehill better. Him and Bridgewater you can flip a coin, Houston he is better than their options. Osweiler is too inexperienced and Manning is too old to really evaluate based on 2016.
     
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  13. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Regardless of their careers, at this point in time Tannehill is a more valuable asset than any of those QB's. If you were a real Dolphins fan you would probably understand that but you're not.
     
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  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    If I was a real moron, I would.

    Remove your head from his lap and recognize what he has been and not what you HOPE he will be. And to call him a more valuable asset is about as funny of a post as I have seen on this topic....and that says a lot. However I welcome any attempt to justify that comment ....its Monday, Im bored and could use some entertainment.
     
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  15. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    So am I the only one who remembers all those years we had a really, really good defense and a terrible offense and consistently lost in the 1st round of the playoffs because we couldn't score points?

    Just sayin' it works both ways, and Carolina's really, really good defense went home a loser last night. There's really only one way to win a championship, and that's to get hot at the right time. Denver's defense was absolutely scalding throughout the playoffs.
     
  16. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Gotta love obscure stats...
     
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  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hey guys, Baltimore Ravens won a superbowl after having a mediocre offense, a mediocre defense, a mediocre run game, mediocre pass game.

    THAT'S TEH SOLUTIONZ TO ALL OUR PROBL3MSSSSZZ!

    We need to be more mediocre.
     
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  18. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Bottom line is our roster needs to be improved in all areas. Even if we can't build an elite defense its highly important we upgrade a number of positions of that side of the ball.
     
  19. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    So we're talking about building a Denver/Carolina/Seattle-caliber defense. Realize we have quite a long way to get there. Those three teams have elite players at each level of the defense and solid players throughout. Denver specifically has one of the greatest defensive minds of all time commanding them. Pete Carroll is no slouch either. Sean McDermott served a decade under the great Jim Johnson.

    Miami has hired a Wade Phillips disciple. But as the Belichick tree shows, a disciple doesn't automatically equate to a messiah. We don't know what to expect here.

    Personnel wise, Miami needs help at every level. Especially in the secondary, where Miami is looking to fill 3-4 spots around Reshad Jones. Basically a full rebuild. Meanwhile, the teams referenced above are essentially 'no-fly zones', with multiple top players in the secondary.

    Additionally, Carolina and Seattle have elite QBs on offense. Manning had fallen off, but not enough to irreparably harm the team. He's was an elite, Hall of Fame mind in game-manager mode.

    I think we need to intelligently build the entire roster rather than trying to be heavy somewhere.
     
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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not sure I'm putting Cam in the "elite" category.
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You don't need those level of defenses. You did need a better defense then we've put up. To get better we still need to address the same areas we would to be elite.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Definitely not. QBs I'd rank above today, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Big Ben, Romo. If he could develop some accuracy and touch though, Cam can leapfrog all of those guys with the physicality and running he does.
     
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  23. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Well, to be fair their defense was pretty good, their run game was ok but solid, and iirc Flacco threw it all over the place in the playoffs with like zero ints. They got super-hot late. Mediocre would be a massive improvement in a few areas for us.
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No, no. You're right **** defense and dead last in rushing attempts is the way to play championship football, the only problem is the QB.
     
  25. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    I think all those QBs listed are great... but for possible 'potential' I think Cam exceeds them all. He doesn't have the Brady/Montana 'cool' under pressure IMO yet... but he could possibly get better at it and work like heck on accuracy. He is a giant S.Young IMO.
     
  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Newton has a very mediocre receiving Corp and yet he had a better season than any of the QB's you listed above.
    I consider him an elite QB. He just happened to run into a great defense yesterday and great defenses win championships.

    I agree that the first four QB's you listed should be in the elite class. I just don't see Romo in that class. He is a good QB, but his inconsistencies over his career prevent him from being put into the same class as your first four QB's.

    I would certainly put Newton well above Romo as an NFL QB. If I was starting an NFL team and could take any QB now in the NFL. My choice would be Wilson or Newton and I don't think I could go wrong with whichever one of them was quarterbacking my team.
     
  27. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Something better than 30th overall please!
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I personally don't think Cam has more potential than he's already showed. Put someone else's brain in his body and I agree with you, but he just acts like a spoiled brat sometimes. You remember that play yesterday where he didn't even make an effort to recover a fumble? I mean this is the SB we're talking about..

    Well.. who knows, people can change, but I personally don't think he's mentally suited to take that next step because he thinks he's so great already.
     
  29. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I would argue the year that Cam had was more related to his defense putting him in good positions as well as some fluky luck.

    We're talking about a guy that in 5 full seasons now throws for less than 60% and has only crossed over that number once. What is funny is that almost all of his numbers except QB rating and TD's fall right around his career averages. His increase in TD's is easily attributed to one of two things:

    A) A very very weak schedule
    B) His defense as I stated early putting him in great field position more than the past.

    To be honest Cam is a very average QB who is capable of catching fire and looking elite due to his raw physical skills, the honest truth is you can track his progression since day 1 in the league statistically and basically prove there has been no progression.
     
  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Might I ask why?
     
  31. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Maybe because his TD's increased while all of his "indicator" stats remained the same. Which points to the fact that its a statistical anomaly caused by the circumstances around him and not an upgrade in play on his part.
     
  32. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Are you speaking for Res?
     
  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    In this thread...the same people who apologize for Ryan are meh on Cam Newton.

    You cant make this stuff up


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  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Because he hasn't shown that he can play at a consistent "elite" level. One season does not an elite QB make.
     
  35. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Nope just inserting my opinion where it probably doesn't belong :lol:
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Incorrect.

    Although, I can't speak for others, but all I said was Cam isn't "elite." We could say, though, that once again, the anti-Tannehill guys are all over-rating another QB, based on one season.
     
  37. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    From a statistical standpoint Ryan is better than Newton. In the very least as a passer. Statistics bear that out.
     
  38. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Should tell you all you need to know about statistics.


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  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    all the way to the Super Bowl, but yeah lets just toss out what got them there.
     
  40. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Cam has always been a playmaker, even when he struggled as a passer he still was an asset. Now? It's ridiculous how good he is.


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