Ordained ministers don't bring up other posters wives. So I call a massive amount of BS. Just saying.
It's been said that the NFL stands for "Not For Long"... meaning what have you done for me lately? I specifically said the past 3 seasons in my comparison of the two. Once upon a time Matt Ryan was part of a team that reached a Conference playoff game. SO what? No one is taking that away from him. I pointed out that that Mark Sanchez did that as well. Both had really good players around them and very good defenses. But, again, what has Matt Ryan done recently that Tannehill hasn't?
The major flaw w/this argument is it lacks the context of era. Those QB's all belong to the pre 2004, "run the ball and play great defense" era. Eli Manning is the lone exception on this list (2007 and 2011). However, he did play like an elite QB during his playoff run, which muddies the water a bit. Peyton is truly the first all around "game manager" to win a SB in the modern era. The Bronco's defense is that impressive. And the question becomes, can anyone replicate those results, consistently? Until they can, I'm more likely to suggest that the Bronco's championship was more an anomaly than a rule. I'm not suggesting that defense doesn't matter either. It does. Every SB team needs a defense capable of getting after the QB and creating turnovers. I just don't think your example is evidence of anything, given it doesn't account for era.
But RT gets compared every time to QBs who were superstars but are not really now or are really old. He is not Brees 7 yrs ago, he is not Big Ben now or 5 yrs ago, he is not Brady and might not ever near it but/but/but he is going into his 5th yr... the entire point of the entire thread was decent QB play with a stout D can win a SB. Nobody could hardly play worse than Manning did. I know the D was out of this world be it just needs to be somewhat threatening... ours is not. Comparing RT to 'franchise' or longtime superstar QB isn't really fair considering it is 4 years into his career and he hasn't done too bad with zilch OL and a crumbling D... not to mention coaching and all that entails. If more would look at it from an opposing coach's point of view... RT would be a worry then but you would be licking your chops of what you were going to do to our OL and how you were going to shred our D.
There is some truth there. But remember Russell Wilson threw for 206 Yards and 2 TDs. Not exactly awesome. The defense controlled that game literally from the first snap.
Offensive PPG Rankings first 4 seasons as starter (Arod not included due to unusual time on sidelines before starting) Russell Wilson: 9-8-10-4 Matt Ryan: 10-13-5-7 Andy Dalton: 18-15-5-7 Joe Flacco: 11-9-16-12 Big Ben: 11-12-9-9 Rivers: 1-2-5-4 Brady: 6-10-12-4 Luck: 18-14-6-17(1/2 season) Stafford: 4-17-13-22 Cam:5-18-18-15 (Ranked #1 in 2015) Tannehill: 27-26-11-27 Please tell me which QB doesn't belong?? Is it all his fault? Stupid question, of course not. But if you think we have some hidden gem that is just unluckier than the rest of these guys, forgive me for being skeptical.
Hey, that stuff does matter....what if I told you Miami's defense in 2 of those 4 years was TOP 8 in points allowed? What if I told you the Dolphins averaged over 4.5 yards per carry in those 4 seasons? I get it, he has dealt with a bottom 1/3 OL and the coaching appears to have been a problem also, but is THAT really why we see such a differential? Ability wouldn't have anything to do with it now would it?
Yes, Tannehill has had run games that averaged good yards per carry....but they didn't really use it effectively. Not to mention, his first two seasons he was very, very raw.
And how convenient for you to just type "they all had better coaching" how do you know that? Is that just more BS and you talking out of your ***? How good was Matt Staffords coaches, defense, and running game? One more that will make for some fantastic, entertaining attempts to refute... Tom Brady? The guy who has been so blessed with his surroundings? Had a worse scoring defense on average his first 4 seasons as a starter (My mistake just saw it, I looked in the wrong column Brady actually had top 10 defenses 3 of 4 years)...maybe it was all time greats like Antoine Smith and WR/CB Troy Brown that carried him. Sheesh....some guys have all the luck!
No they didn't, they were idiots. But I can't hang my hat on its coaching that is the single biggest difference between Ryan and these other guys.
Well son, I actually pay attention to ALL the teams, not just Miami. I watch all the games. And I have never seen such moronic coaching as I have in Miami the last few years. And yes, I coached for many years. So I know what I am watching.
Era doesn't matter in regards to what my post was insinuating. For example, look at Brady's first 4 starting seasons in the NFL. He averaged 23 TD's, 13 INT's, 3400 yrds a season. Yet the Pats won 3 Super Bowls. Why? 5th, 1st, and 2nd ranked defenses. That's why. As to the other QB's on that list, they were mostly average (or worse) throughout their careers. There are only something like 28-29 Super Bowl winning QB's. Out of those only 2 won a Super Bowl with a less than league average defense. P. Manning and E. Manning.
2010 Saints ranked 21st in Points allowed But your point is valid. Ofcourse, I'm not sure why we are even lumping Tanne/Dolphins with Super Bowl winners.
2015 Off Coordinators and the system they ran of... Chargers Vikings Panthers You have responded quickly so i expect the same
So thats WHY NE won Super Bowls? Isn't it kinda relevant that in the 3 SB games that Defense allowed 22ppg and that offense that is NOT the reason WHY they won scored 25 ppg. Your go.
No one was calling Brady elite his first four years starting. In fact, people were calling him the product of a system, and Capt Checkdown.
Sorry daughter took my laptop. Shula ran a read option scheme for Carolina Turner ran a spread offense for Vikings McCoy ran a pro style offense in SD
I haven't mentioned Tanny. I'm talking about defense and the fact that an "elite" QB is much more rare than a Super Bowl winning QB. (And you're right about the Saints. However, they were 20th. Still valid though. So there have been 3 QB's with sub-par defenses.)
Yep. And he's still not doing anything differently than a dozen or so other QB's in the league. Sure, the Pats are great teams (cheating) and he's their QB and he IS a great QB. However, I don't see him as close to being the GOAT. IMO
Thank you guys for proving my earlier point, that you will do all you can to discredit good/proven QBs...then turn around and find ANY excuse why Ryan after 4 years is regarded as a low third tier QB.
I think it's relevant that they had good offenses too. However, how many of those 25 ppg were from the Pats defense? I bet if you take those away you'd see a different story.
For example, Fin-O, in those 3 SB's the Pats defense created 8 turnovers. To the offense's credit they only gave up one turnover.
What are you babbling about? I'm not discrediting Brady at all. In his first four years starting, no one was calling him elite. But you think Tannehill should be elite in his first four years...even though the tan and coaching he's had are nowhere near what Brady had. Not even mentioning, Brady didn't start immediately after being drafted.
