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Are Dolphins thinking of tagging OV? Why?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finster, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Is this article pure supposition?(link at bottom) Tagging OV would cost 15 mil this year, is that really even a question? Why would anyone think he's worth that money?

    After all, we're talking about a guy who has 14 sacks and 2 forced fumbles over the last 2 years, and for 15 mil I'd want more than that in a yearly total, half that would be my limit on him, and I'd have to think about that, rumors are going around that he would want 10 mil per, Cam Wake money? I think that's crazy.

    Wake) past 2 years(24 games) 4 PDs, 7 FFs, 1 FRs, 18.5 sacks.
    Vernon) 2 years(32 games) 0 PDs, 2FFs, 0 FRs, 14 sacks.

    There's no real comparison in level of disruption, and if this 10 mil per thing is true, you NEED to be a disruptive force, I don't need to even think about 10 mil per, I'd have to think about 7.5 mil per.

    I like OV, he's a decent starting DE, but you don't pay decent DE's 10 mil, never mind 15.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article62186802.html
     
    EverFin likes this.
  2. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    If he's asking for 10 mil per, I let him walk. No way am I even considering 15 per.

    If I'm in the FO, I may want to place the non-exclusive franchise tag on him so we get something for him if he leaves. There will be some team that will look at him because he's only 25.
     
    dgfred likes this.
  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This year he was as dominant as anyone in the league.

    You tag him because you haven't seen him for long enough- you don't know if he is an elite edge rusher, or more like he was prior to 2015. It's time to evaluate.
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    It's always a pain to let good players go, especially when you feel like there's already a lot of gaps to fill, but that's the reality that has to be faced in a capped league. This is mostly fall-out from two things - all the bad coaching/management decisions leading to a lack of success and the higher contracts dished out which limit spending. The bottom line is that unless the team can build incredible good will and convince Vernon and others to stay on for less than they could get elsewhere, we're going to lose some good players. That's just where we are right now. The other side to it is that where we are is looking forward to be good again in 2-3 years minimum and then, hopefully, good for a time to come.

    You can't keep stirring crap into the pot and adding salt to cover it up. You have to tip it out and start fresh. We've brought in new cooks (although the owner and manager remain the same), and we've still got some quality ingredients in the cupboard, but some of the other ingredients weren't used in time, or used properly, and they're done, so. sadly (but with hope) it's time to start cooking from scratch again.
     
  5. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    His age might be adding to the confusion, he's only just 25 years old.
     
  6. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    In the current NFL game environment ,effective edge rushers are a valuable commodity second in importance only to franchise QBs. Someone will pay him the amount he seeks .

    I am speculating but If he is tagged it could be because we want to use those valuable draft picks on other needed positions like DBs,LBs and OL . Then next year we can address the DL position.
     
  7. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The question is though, how effective is he? He doesn't get a lot of sacks, and he doesn't get the other stats that indicate effectiveness of edge rushers, like batted balls, or more importantly, forced fumbles, effective edge rushers put the ball on the ground.

    If tagged, that's 15 mil this year, no deferring any of it, so that will seriously hurt any FA moves, or have to let go other players, who then have to also be accounted for.

    If I have a choice of signing Miller and Matthews for a combined 10 mil per, or sign OV for 10 mil per, that's not even a choice imo, if that would be the choice, Miller and Matthews combined are much more important to the success of the team, again imo.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Sounds more like a slow news day article. Can't imagine any GM would tag OV for 15 mil.. so I'm dismissing this as a non-story.
     
  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    That's the only conclusion I'd like to come to, but the way the team has been run lately... lol.
     
  10. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    He has a lot of QB pressures even though they don't always translate to sacks.
    not sure why we have an issue putting the tag on him, makes sense for the reasons Disgustipate mentioned.
     
  11. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    It could go either way... I'm not a big fan of his, but he has had very good production.

    2013: OV had 11.5 sacks and 57 tackles. Wake had 8.5 sacks and 37 tackles.
    2014: OV had 6.5 sacks and 46 tackles. Wake had 11.5 sacks and 36 tackles.
    2015: OV had 7.5 sacks and 61 tackles. Wake had 7 sacks and 9 tackles in 7 games.

    We're paying Wake almost $10M... OV has never missed a game, is much better vs the run, makes more tackles, and does compare well at this point in the careers of both on QB pressures and hits.

    He was playing injured in the first half of last season and still dominated weaker competition. He had a very good second half without Wake. He does draw too many penalties, but so does Landry.

    His floor was set with the Vinny Curry and Cameron Jordan deals. Vinny Curry signed a 5 year, $47.25M contract with the Eagles, including a $10 signing bonus, $23M guaranteed at $9.5M average annual salary. Cameron Jordan signed a 5 year, $55M contract with the Saints, including a $16M signing bonus, $33.5M guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $11M.

    OV will want between $10M and $12M each season.
     
  12. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    He needs to cut down on the stupid penalties. He single handedly cost us the Jags game.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Finster, cbrad and PhinishLine like this.
  14. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Just saw this:

    [video=twitter;702920166657662976]https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/702920166657662976[/video]
     
  15. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    I guess you have no idea what QB hits and QB hurries are
     
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  16. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    No kidding. Do people still not know what these stats are?
     
  17. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think you have to cognizant of what his responsibilities were under the old regime. If he was asked to play a little tighter than Wake, which was the case before awake went down, then will also affect his responsibilities. If you believe that every DEnhas the same responsibilities when rushing the passer you would be mistaken. People should take notice of what he produced when he was split wider.

    Then the real question is what do we expect to get from Wake moving forward versus OV given Wake's age. Also what do we have behind them? Not much in terms of rushing the passer. Both backups could play OV role. Whereas who do we have to play Wakes role?
     
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  18. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Please let this be true. If we can dump him for a 2nd rd pick I'd do cartwheels.
     
    Finster likes this.
  19. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I am curious as to what the compensation would be.
     
  20. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    And if you think he has an anywhere near decent chance of being elite, then there's no way you let him walk for nothing.
     
  21. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A tag and trade whether we get a third even is a better option for the franchise, we get an asset and it's cheaper. From a long term perspective it helps especially considering the holes we have and that realistically it's "grow year" for the defense.
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd love to sign OV to a long term contract but we just gave Suh a crap ton of money. Kicked his salary cap can down the road. I'll leave it to the capologist at Miami to figure out but that's gonna be a lot of money on the Dline.
     
  23. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    You think they'd go all in on a DE in the first round if this is the case? Or would they pursue someone in FA?
     
  24. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Feel good for OV. He's earned his new contract with three good seasons with us. I hope we can tag and trade with the Giants.

    The more high round picks the better for this team. I like the guard and safety talent in the second; Eli Apple, as well.

    We could possibly see three second round picks by dropping mid-late first in the draft. This would be great for Gase and fortunate for our needs. Considering we could get elite prospects at our need positions (G, S, LB).
     
  25. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yes I do, and they're nice, but they don't always put the ball on the ground, QBs throw successful passes, including TDs, all the time after being hurried or just before being hit, elite edge rushers put the ball on the ground, strip sacks are often time game changers, and are almost always momentum changers.

    Vernon has 4 forced fumbles in 4 years, Wake has 12 in that time span, Wake is an elite edge rusher and Vernon is not.

    Then there's the batted passes, OV doesn't get those either, and they are play/drive killers.

    He doesn't get sacks in high volume, he was tied for 28th in the league last year, tied for 40th the year before, and he played in every game.

    OV is a good DE but doesn't make near enough drive killing or potential game changing plays to be paid like that.
     
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  26. patcobb

    patcobb Active Member

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    Dont know the stats but OV had more qb hurries than anyone else down the stretch of the season. He is only 25 and will likely get better. He can be elite and because of his position he will be getting PAID. Its going to be hard seeing him leave.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Wake was also 29 before he became Wake.

    Vernon has improved every year he has been in the league, plus he is much better at playing the run than Wake. Letting him go would be a mistake.
     
  28. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Derek Wake didn't put much effort into football until he was 25, then he had a personal transformation and put everything into it and became Cameron Wake, and he's been Cam Wake since he was 25, just doing it in Canada, then at the age of 27, as a back up he had 5.5 sacks as an NFL rookie, then had 14.5 sacks, 4 PDs and 3 FFs as a sophomore.

    OV has been a high effort guy, he won't be having a Wake transformation, it's really rare for edge rushers to to get it all of a sudden after 4 years in the league, OV is a good DE, but he isn't elite, no sense paying him elite money.
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Based on what?
     
  30. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 2022 Mother's Day and May Flowers!

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    Yeah as really O.V. needs to earn it.He is good. But needs to be elite to earn that money. Like it is about earning it.
     
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  31. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    1 year at 15m is a lot easier to swallow than a multi-year contract at 10m+.
     
  32. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    We get Suh and a big long-term contract for OV is out of the question. Win-win. :)
     
  33. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Your going to see some insane deals this year. Some teams carried over a massive amount of cap to this year. This is also the final year in which a lot of teams need to get to that minimum of 89% of their cap spent over a 4 year period.

    If your going to play O.V. like they did once Wake went down then he is worth the money (remember he's also going against teams best OT's). If your playing him like Coyle did then no you don't pay him.

    Albert, Jordan's and Wake's contracts won't last much longer. Grimes even shorter. So really the only guys making big money are Ryan, Suh, Pouncey and Jones. Jones you can probably manipulate with a new deal next year to drop his $8 million plus cap hit into more manageable numbers for a couple years.
     
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  34. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    One thing about OV, during one of the broadcasts this year, they showed a graphic where OV had more pressures over the past 3 years than anyone else who plays normally from the RDE position. At 25, I just don't know why we would let him walk. I love Wake but this may be the point we have to let him walk unless he does a team friendly restructure.
     
  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm good with tagging OV to keep him on a one year deal, and I'm also good with doing it to trade him. We could make a lot happen with a second first round pick, or maybe since Jacksonville has been rumored to be on him as a UFA, swap our #8 pick for their #5, and pick up the #38 pick as well. Then, we'd have a really great shot at Jack or Ramsey in the first, and would have the 7th and 11th picks in the second. Just spitballing.
     
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  36. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Or Dallas... they slide down a bit and still get their QB (if they want one) and we get to 4. They need pass rushers that are not crazy or don't smoke so much weed.
     
  37. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how you do that and afford him. Tag would be like 15 million wouldn't it? not cap space.
     
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  38. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't think you have to look at the first round as the spot to grab a Passrusher. There are players who will around in the middle rounds who can help that situation. The other thing is not to assume that a DE is the only way to acquire a Passrusher. Having pressure through the middle is just as effective and is more disruptive as it is a shorter path to the ball.
     
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  39. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    The Fins can create lots of cap space with a handful of moves. Vernon can be franchised and fit. The question is just whether the team wants to.
     
  40. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As well as he faces the LT every game where teams tend to put their best tackles..my god, he is 24 and developing towards his prime now..why do we have to keep developing great talent for other teams..that and bad coaching recipe for mediocre whin finster and gunn y'all hate with the rest of us...he was injured 1st part of last year and came on like gamgbuster..i do want to see the late hits eliminated but i think h will thrive under VJ defense.
     

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