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Worst Draft I've Ever Seen

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Alan112, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    they stated they went alpha males in the draft. They expect these guys to be players, not just role players
     
  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    second rate???? seriously have you looked at his stats or anything about him?
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Lol if there is any team that should complain about their draft, look no further up north than the Buccaneers. Trading up for a kicker that went 14/22 beyond 40 the last two years and selecting him in the second round. I read the buccaneers fans reaction and you can imagine how they felt..
     
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  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Trading up for a kicker in the second round
    is a phrase that no fan base ever wants to hear. Its comical.
     
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  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It means we spent a ton of resources giving Tanny weapons and trying to protect him. Pretty simple actually, if you read it slowly ...
     
  6. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's actually not as simple as you want to make it out to be, that's his point. Just because a player was taking in the first round, doesn't mean he turned out to be a first round talent, nor does it mean he's still a first round talent at this point in his career. For example, Albert's continued injury problems. Sure, he's a former first round pick, but how much have we actually gotten out of him here in Miami? Not a whole lot.

    I'm not getting involved any further than this, but I think its erroneous to say oh look, there's 4 first round picks on the OL, no more "excuses". Past success, or draft status isn't indicative of current talent level, success, and performance. That's like saying Peyton Manning was a #1 overall, and still equating his on field play last year to that. It's just simply not true for a variety of reasons.
     
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  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You build the team through the draft. You supplement through FA. Which young stud DE/DL did we add? We lost Vernon and Shelby and have Williams and Branch. Wake is a year older.

    The bag of potato chips in FA doesn't make any sense because we went hard after some bellcow RBs and didn't walk away with any in the draft. So that contradicts your argument this draft was a reactionary one to what happened in FA.
     
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Albert has always been hurt. He's doing exactly what he did when we signed him. Playing 14 games a year. There are literally no more excuses. James, Pouncey and Albert play well when they're healthy is what' we've heard all season. Now they've added what some consider the best OL in the draft, likely to play guard, the position many lamented as ignored for several years now. I mean, I won't mention the other wildly successful QB who has seen all his OL starters go down. They have thrown many, many resources at protecting Tanny, and weapons for Tanny. Eventually we need to see massive production.

    If Albert goes down and the line sucks, are we giving yet another pass? At what point are we going to say, okay, this is the NFL rarely do teams get great OL play, or even decent OL play for an extended period of time. Does this kid need a good OL his entire career?
     
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  9. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    When he's talking about the amount of investment that's went towards the offensive line, it is simple as that.

    Investment doesn't always yield returns though, that's the way it works.
     
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  10. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly my point. Let's not ignore the WR position where tons of resources have been spent. A position I feel is highly overrated by the way (good/great QBs lift the corps, not the other way around).
     
  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    now that you mention that Dangerfield, Grant, Higbee (TE) all receivers that were drafted or signed as FA's out of WKU this draft because of Doughty. None of them likely make it without him.
     
  12. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    It's popular because not only are Kiper an company wrong every year, but so are NFL teams wrong every year, and all us draftniks, that do watch tape, or watch a ton of college ball, have our own ideas, and like to compare them with the NFL "experts" that also make plenty of their own mistakes.

    I thought Ireland was on drugs when he traded up for Jordan, so me, and others of like mind were right and he was wrong, but I also like Jamar Taylor, so we were both wrong on that, and I thought Landry was drafted to high, so I was wrong on that, and there's the fun of it imo.
     
  13. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Pardon me but WTF are you talking about?

    I was talking about Feely, second round pick to the iggles and a2nd to the Vikings for Crappooper, a 2nd to the rams for Green, 2nd to the foreskins for Frerrotte, who am I missing? Fiedler? Did we give up a second for him?
     
  14. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I was mistaken apparently on what you were trying to say.
     
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  15. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    exactly and it is amazing how people think we are wrong because of what we think all the while the experts are just as wrong if not more so. I did not like the trade up for Jordan and I did not like Taylor pick (primarily because he was injured) once I saw him on the field I knew he was crappy. Miller and Matthews I loved and they turned out really well.
     
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  16. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Ajayi is our bellcow rb. It wasn't going to be foster. He's on his last legs. Anderson maybe but in all likelihood it would be an even split until someone took over. The fact we tried but didn't get a rb means what exactly. All I get from this post is you wanted us to draft a DE. Instead of what offensive pick? And what makes you think they didn't have the offensive pick more highly regarded
     
  17. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    the draft was not the worst ive seen it clearly was not even on the top 50% but maybe in the middle, that says a lot of the horrible drafts we have had.

    First thought was Tunsil - great talent but him in south beach might create some johnny manziel bs, but we will see if he plays to his ability then thats much help for RT

    Drafting 3 wr I don't understand if you needed a WR should have kept Mathews at his measly 5 mill a yr for a guy who was arguably the best wr behind landry. but carroo has some speed if he can make the roster.

    a nice pick was Duarte out of ucla at TE in the 7th rnd, if we can get some 2 TE sets out of GASE this kid will be a huge counter to Cameron and a huge achilies heel for RT if he can make the roster, he has some skill good routes and great hands. I never thought he would fall to the 7th round but glad he did. I live on the west coast and have ucla season tickets so I seen this kid a lot, if he can get a little bigger and get better at blocking might be a huge steal at 7 he might even compete with sims, but at 6'2 230 thats a huge stretch to compete but I do like his talent but unfortunately he wasn't given the height.

    I liked the drake pick if he can get and stay healthy his ability to catch passes will be tremendous help to counter ajayi, this is a position still in need, we are counting on a RB that hasn't proved his ability to handle a big amount of downs. as well as a young runner with a lot of injuries.

    Other than that I guess we have to wait and see if alonso and Maxwell can play better than at the eagles that's going to make not drafting those position seem like a mute point.
     
  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm aware of the point he's making, but the greater point to be made is exactly what you said... investment doesn't always yield returns. So, then how can we sit here and say, there's 4 first round picks there. No more excuses. Well, sure... there's excuses, I wouldn't call them that though, I'd call them facts. Albert is the point... always injured. So just because he's a first round pick we are supposed to overlook that and not use that as a reason why our OL hasn't been as good as it can be from a pass pro, and run blocking standpoint? We're just supposed to overlook it because... OHH!! First round draft pick!!! It's just to me, an example of using something to benefit an argument one way or another, without looking at the context of it.

    Hell, we could have a team of 22 first round draft picks starting week in and week out, huge investment, yes. However, if they all terrible football players, or injured. Does the investment really matter when it comes to discussing performance, and "excuses"?? To me... it doesn't matter. It's an investment, sure... but that's irrelevant. The important part is the return of said investment and how it impacts the team, and other key positions.

    You can't just claim... 4 of the 5 starting OL are first round picks, so they aren't to blame for anything any longer. There's a hell of a lot more to look at than draft status. That's all I'm saying.
     
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  19. darefugee

    darefugee Active Member

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    I see you joined in December of 2013. Since you weren't here in May 2013, you get a mulligan.
     
  20. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I think the point is no one every blames the QB, it is always the line, the coaching, the WR's the RB's the OC the the the the.
     
  21. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know you are probably trying to block it from your memory but Pat White
     
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  22. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Achillies' heel is someone's weakness or shortcoming. I don't think that is what you meant.
     
  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is a false statement.

    Mostly everyone blames the quarterback. Which is why some people have to bring up the terrible line, poor coaching, and OC who couldn't adjust after his offense was figured out.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hahaha

    I'd settle for decent OL play for one season. Seriously, you guys underestimate oline importance so much.
     
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  25. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I think our OL has sucked for a long time. I think the resources we've brought in have mostly been bad moves. We've tended to "fix" these problems with the wrong players or at the wrong stage in their careers. That 2008 Parcells rebuild started out good but went sideways, that was when we were suppose to build for the future, but they screwed up the roster in many ways. We drafted Long, good move until he got hurt. Then we signed and overpaid for busted up former All-Pros like J. Grove, Smiley, and whatever has been RT that was available every other year (Colombo, Clabo). We drafted John Jerry at G who was terrible and played here too long, and drafted Pouncey who has been our only decent OL draft pick since those years whose stuck around, and even he is pretty overrated compared to other Cs who are\were All-Pro. Dwight Stephenson, Mike Stepnowski, Olin Kreutz, he is not. Jury is still out on J. James but from what we've seen he's pretty average at RT and that's when he's been healthy. Everyone else we've had in the meantime were band aids like Likkenbach and Colledge that were done or terrible OL that were drafted that have no business being in the NFL(Turner and Thomas, maybe Douglas already as well.) B. Albert would've been a great signing 2-3 years before we signed him, when we finally did he was damaged goods. When he's healthy he's our best lineman, and that's saying something considering he's been playing on one knee. So to say there aren't any excuses, well our biggest one would be neglect and incompetence by our FO who can't seem to put a coherent roster together, from Parcells/Ireland to now Tanny/Grier.

    As for our QB, it is hard to say for sure what the problem is. There are times when Tanny looks like a franchise QB when he's not running for his life. By all means he should've been David Carr by now, done in by a weak line but he keeps marching on, gotta admire that. But it is also true that good QBs can manage behind a bad line and make bad-average WRs look good. Tanny simply isn't that guy. So what we have is a slightly above average QB playing behind an average at best line with so-so WRs most of his career. Excuses or reasons, whatever, these are the facts.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
  26. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Well, as any of this pertains to Thill, this is his make or break year. They set it up that way in his contract and the front office has added enough pieces that all excuses are gone. Real or imagined.

    This is it for him, for better or worse.
     
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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Can good QBS manage behind bad olines when they are being undercut by their coaches, not allowed to audible, and have one of the most underused run games in the league? The best QBs look much worse when their olines are garbage.

    And characterizing our oline as anything other than terrible, is giving then way to much credit.
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I write this because Seattles line was considered one of the worst in the NFL {i believe theres metrics out there that state that}..in his last 7 games Russell Wilson had 27 tds and 1 int, finished with the highest passer rating in the league..thats fu##in hall of fame sh##..

    ryan has more sacks over the last four years than any other qb...by 20..


    needs to step up his game...no matter the surrounding variables..needs to be smart enough to figure out what needs to be done when protection breaks down.
     
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  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, WHY compare to Wilson, when Tannehill and Wilson are literally nothing alike. Tannehill dish not possess the physical ability to evade rushers like Wilson, nor was the Dolphins scheme set up to take advantage of Tannehill's athleticism. Nor did Tannehill have the benefit of a shutdown defense, or a steady, productive run game.
     
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  30. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    Where this draft makes sense is hopefully we've put the finishing touches on the offense. We should be a high scoring team and we are going to hang our hat on scoring. If the defense can do just enough or we can finally give it lead most games, maybe our dline starts getting QB hits and turnovers. We score even more. The players brought in, complete our receiving core, te, and rb. We needed more speed and size at war, we got it. We needed and better 3rd down back, we got it. We needed a flex te, we got it. Throw in we have Tunsil and this draft allows us to change our offense week to week which is what Gase has stated from the start. Drake looks like he's a guy who could out a few more lbs on and run between the tackles.
     
  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes. Was part of this on the line and coaching? Sure.

    But Tanny also has a ton of improvement to show as well.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Honestly, does being able to audible and have a running game and a good OC play no part in your mind?
     
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  33. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Nor should any QB be expected to deal with all of the crap that Ryan's had handed to him the last few years.
     
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  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Errrrrrr but but but but.....

    So typical...blame everyone and everything but the guy you happened to like. Grow the fk up, no way to live your lives.
     
  35. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    Have any of you gone back and looked at the 2013 draft? Not just for us but overall? What a terrible draft. It would have been hard for anyone to hit that draft. Looking back you wish we would have taken Richarson at 3 or Jamie Collins. Man no wonder our class sucked, the entire thing sucked. Even the guys who have been good like Ogletree have had lots of injuries. Guys like Austin, Werner or any of the OTs have been avg or worse. Wow never realized how bad it was until reading how no one is using their fifth year option.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You asked about a qb who played well behind a sh%$y off line..

    a steady productive running game does not stem from their sh$$y offensive line, you should realize that once Lynch went out and you and others couldn't use the whole Lynch excuse as to why you think wilson is overrated..

    forget all that..Ryan Tannehill has to rectify the weakness that is staring at him and every qbs face every sunday, and that is, what are you gonna do when protection breaks down?, doesn't matter whats happening, doesn't matter the variables, this is like death and taxes, its going to happen..

    problem is, and why that sack number is so high, is because he hasn't figured it out..

    listen if you believe that the line has been real bad for four years, and you know that going into a game, then you gotta figure out a strategy of your own..fu## whats going on around you...make a freakin play, end of story..

    will he improve this year?..yes he will, better weapons, coaching and oline, his numbers will go up, does that mean much to me ?...no...why?, because I know that important games come down to qb's making some individual efforts to buy time, manipulate the pocket, run, step up and throw, improv your way out of trouble..if he does not learn this skill he will be nothing but a robot..

    The top 6 best qbs in the game right now do exactly what I'm talking about..

    Rogers...master of the reset, will run..

    Wilson...best playmaking qb in the game..really good at everything.

    Cam newton...nothing needs to be said..

    Rothlesberger..every play is kept alive by his extraordinary ability to move.

    Brady..works a pocket, always moving..and ran past the los more times than ryan..

    Brees..unreal pocket maneuverability..

    top 2 up and comers..

    Mariota...elite ability when protection breaks down

    Jameis Winston..this dude is unreal and most just think he's a pocket passer...hell no he aint..dude runs all over the freakin place trying to make plays for his team, is willing to put his body on the line just to get a first down..

    these types of plays cause a ripple effect imo, the derivative affects are felt throughout the rest of the game, changes a defenses mindset..

    if ryan wants to play champ football, its time he learns the skill, the fact that he hasn't and completely ignores this part of qb'ing tells me he's not playing smart football..converting is how you win football games..converting is not just about waiting for the perfect call, protection, and throw, its about adapting, resetting, changing platforms in chaos, running, scrambling...making plays within the pocket and outside..

    When you have a guy who played receiver at a big time college football program who goes long stretches of games without ever making a defense pay for turning their backs on him, you have a major issue..

    if you come back with,'' well, yeah, you try to scramble or run when the line doesn't give you any lanes'', lets just end the debate again.

    I think ryan will improve, Im rooting hard for him, he's got talent, but he must understand this nuance of the game much much better..
     
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  37. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I could see Jim saying exactly that.
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    DJ, for someone who harps on players playing loose, in order to make good plays and throws, I don't know how you completely ignore Philbin and Lazor attempting to replace Tannehill. Think about it: Tannehill was coached to stay in the pocket and protect the ball. Now, his two main coaches are trying to replace him, and telling the owner he's terrible. How loose is he gonna play? How often is he going to go off script?

    There was far more to the situation than "Tannehill needing to improve." Further, how invested do you think Philbin and Lazor were in improving Tannehill? If Tannehill improved, it showed them to be further idiots.
     
  39. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I was mostly going for the ones we traded our 2nd for. But if we want to add draft picks in the second to the crapfest lets mention the Stormin Mormon Beck and Hanging Chad Henne.
     
  40. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Pete Carroll credited their improved OL play after the BYE for the reduction in sacks... link: http://www.seahawks.com/news/2016/02/25/seahawks-offensive-line-focus-offseason

    That's not taking anything away Wilson, or his unique skill-set, but it's not like he suddenly woke up mid-season and had a Rocky-esque 2nd half. The OL play improved dramatically, as the result was their entire offense's production.

    As far as comparisons - I'd take their LG, Justin Britt, over Dallas Thomas every day of the week, and the same thing with their RT, Garry Gilliam. He was far and away better than Jason Fkn Fox, who was one of Gase's first cuts, and rightfully so.
     
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