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Dolphins rookie QB Brandon Doughty happy to return home to Miami/ Combine vid

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sceeto, May 7, 2016.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And looking at the Combine velocity measurements that they take on the out route every year, he had 53 mph velocity. Approximately 70% of Combine velocity throw participants have fit within the 52 to 57 mph range on the out route, and it looks to me like Doughty fits right into that range.

    I don't think that Combine velocity data is worth dissecting on a micro level because you would be SHOCKED at how fast some guys threw and how slow some others threw which to me points to some issue in either the measurement precision (very likely) or translation. But to me when you've got Austin Davis popping up in the top 13% and Kirk Cousins the top 8% strongest arms to throw at the Combine over the last decade, and Mike Glennon and John Skelton as among the worst arms at the Combine, something is off.

    I mean, generally speaking it shows about what you'd think. No surprises that Logan Thomas, Colin Kaepernick and Brandon Weeden are among the strongest arms tested. Nor Tyler Bray or Paxton Lynch for that matter. No surprise that Blake Sims and Colt Brennan came in dreadfully deficient, either...nor that Josh Johnson, Matt Flynn, Dan LeFevour, Jarrett Brown, Tyrod Taylor or Connor Shaw came in at the lowest end of acceptable, with Shane Carden, Christian Ponder and Sean Canfield not far above that.
     
  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    And if you really want to watch a drive that is the drive to watch. It is Marino like. I remember thinking, hmmm those timeouts may be helping WKU out. Start at the 1:06:45 mark and watch it, really impressive.

    I was that game on the far end where they scored the TD.

    I think you might have passed me up for the Doughty homer award :)
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not necessarily, just doing my research.
     
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  4. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Great stuff ck. When I first watched a few film clips on him, I wasn't too impressed, but I didn't really have time to search around much for more clips. Watching the clips you posted, I got to see a lot more of what he can do. There's definitely a lot to like about him. His composure, his inability to get rattled in the pocket is something that really stands out to me. Good poise and football IQ. Definitely more of a pro-type system Psyched about the pick. Thanks.
     
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  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I love the implications he carries as far as figuring out where the game is and where it is going. Can a guy like him make it nowadays? Is he 20 years too late? Does college production matter at all, even higher resolution analytics that show remarkable efficiency in very key areas? Does none of that matter unless it is the SEC? What is the nature of the floor/ceiling debate for quarterbacks as it relates to physical prowess versus mental/technical perfection? Is it really backwards, as ive been theorizing for a long time?

    As for Doughty himself, I believe Miami has a good QB so I am not trying to have illusions here. I am just very intrigued with the story, and the implications toward personnel evaluation.
     
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  6. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Hard to read these posts from CK and not be excited about the kid. CK, honest question - Do you think he could eventually prove to be legitimate competition for Ryan Tannehill? Based on your assessment, I'm thinking your answer might be yes, but I might be reading too much into it. Either way, sounds like Miami got great value in the 7th round.
     
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  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The way these things work, its never competition. He could look like an All Pro in practice and preseason, and Tannehill doesnt leave the field unless there has been an assessment saying we do not think Tannehill is worth this contract anymore and we are moving on. That assessment usually doesnt come cleanly in the off season so usually the backup would have a chance at some point to prove what he has.

    That, or Tannehill gets hurt for an extended period and Doughty lights it up in his absence.
     
  8. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I believe Doughty is the better QB. I don't think he will get a shot to unseat Tannehill. CK explains well it below.
     
  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    It cracked me up when, in another thread, you mentioned how Doughty threw an amazing 8 TD passes in a game. You then mentioned how the last one of those TDs was to come back and win the game. Ha! 8 TD passes and he was still playing from behind? Wow! I would think when the QB accounts for 56 points on his own, that team is well ahead in a blowout or something. I know it's college, but wow.
     
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  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've never seen anything like it even in college. It wasn't just 8 touchdown passes. He threw two more right where it needed to be to an open receiver, one receiver never found the ball and the other receiver dropped it off his hands. And then after the 8th touchdown (which came in overtime), he threw a 2-point conversion to win the game. Talk about ballsy. This was an undefeated Marshall team whose defense was dominating the previous 11 opponents at 16.5 points per game. He comes in and slices through them. It was Conference USA, but still.
     
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  12. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Better than Tannehill?
     
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  13. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    He started and threw for more TD's then Tannehill did in college. I just see a QB that gets and understands the game of football, he has played QB his entire life, not for 5-6 years. Again, I am not sure Doughty will be given a shot to actually start unless Tannehill gets injured.
     
  14. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So I guess we should go out and get Tebow? He was better than Ryan in college. So was Mark Sanchez, how'd that work out for the Jest and Philly? Theres no reasoning whatsoever to say that Doughty is better than Ryan, I mean this is a guy who hasn't even made an NFL roster yet and you are assuming he would be better than Ryan? Based upon a lot of stats in a college division that is a notch or two above Community College/High School level? I mean that is just ridiculous.
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Welcome to the rabbit-hole, finsfan.

    It's fine to be excited about a rookie prospect, but let's not crown him anything just yet.
     
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  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Doughty's Shrine Game appearance wasn't quite as bad as I remembered it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRXdxxcN-Kg

    I mean it was bad, with the two interceptions. The first interception really fed the perception that Doughty panics under pressure (which isn't really a narrative that has backing in the full library of his film). But I gave him a break on that interception right when it happened because Joe Bolden blitzed him in the pocket and the Shrine Game's rules are crystal clear on not allowing linebackers to blitz unless it's a 3-4 front and it's an outside linebacker. Joe Bolden was playing middle linebacker, and he delay blitzed Doughty, hammered him and forced Doughty to get the ball out early. Bolden broke the rules and did something Doughty had a right not to anticipate. On the other, lots of stuff happens in the NFL you had a right not to anticipate.

    The second interception I thought the receiver Geronimo Allison (who was being overrated by Draft Twitter, IMO) throttled down on the slant route and Doughty was not expecting that at all. That created the pick. There were two passes Doughty had with the second being a double-move miscommunication with his old WKU receiver Jared Dangerfield that I thought exemplified the problems you sometimes run into with these All Star games and the unfamiliar playbook being learned, miscommunication that happens between QBs and WRs. Even though it was a QB-WR combination that was very familiar, it was an unfamiliar playbook and I thought Doughty had the right of it to assume that Dangerfield would continue his double-move vertically instead of cutting it off.
     
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  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's not quite the damning logical point that you think it is. Tim Tebow was a dominant force in college, but as a dual threat quarterback. It's not necessarily the same category for comparison with a Ryan Tannehill or Brandon Doughty. Tim Tebow was not as good a passer as Tannehill or Doughty. I mean, you could argue the Dolphins camp fodder wide receiver Tyler Murphy was a better college quarterback than Ryan Tannehill was at aTm, but Tyler Murphy was a dual threat quarterback. It's a different position and carries different implications for translation to the NFL (not good ones).

    Brandon Doughty and Ryan Tannehill were pro style passers in college and Doughty was the better pro style college quarterback. But Tannehill was and is better equipped physically to handle the increased speed of the NFL game.
     
  18. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Cmon, Doughty has an uphill battle to even make the team. The guy he needs to beat out is Matt Moore and I'd put money on Moore if I was forced to bet. I like Doughty's story and I've watched a lot of the videos that have been posted, I've enjoyed them but when you consider the level of competition its still dicey to predict him even being on an NFL roster this year. I wish the kid the best and hey if he came in, lit it up and we moved on from Tannehill and didn't have to spend a high draft pick on a Qb because we had a 7th rounder that was a starting caliber Qb then we have a genius front office, I'll give them that. I'm looking forward to seeing him play in the preseason, I wish him the same luck I wish everyone we draft, heck I hope he's a HOFer one day.
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't see how it's dicey to predict him being on an NFL roster. The Dolphins were legit surprised he was still available at the top of the 7th round. They hadn't really intended on taking a QB this year because they had Logan Thomas and Zac Dysert, and Matt Moore came crawling back to them for less than $2 million a year, which is a great deal for a 31 year old primary backup QB with plenty of skins on the wall.

    They had a 5th round grade on Thomas Duarte and they prioritized Doughty over him, even though they already had all four camp arm slots filled up at the position. What does that tell you?
     
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  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Incidentally, where was the level of competition argument against LSU when Brandon Doughty was throwing three touchdowns in Baton Rouge during a torrential downpour that favored LSU's ridiculous ground game with Leonard Fournette? He had that game within reach into the 4th quarter before it broke open.

    Doughty's interception in that game wasn't even his fault. Receiver fell down on the route because of the rain. Ball went straight to where the receiver should've been, but a defender was there because the receiver wasn't. And no, that's not something you can see happen before you throw it, unless you can see the future.

    Western Kentucky had to change their game plan five minutes before the game started because the rain wouldn't let up. They had been planning to attack LSU's man coverage with some vertical passing (Doughty is one of the most productive deep throwers in NCAA) but the rain changed it, played right into LSU's hands with Fournette. Meanwhile, Western Kentucky's highly touted bruiser at running back was out injured. That was an ouch. Still...325 yards, 3 touchdowns, the interception not even his fault, that's pretty damn good.
     
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  21. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    He doesn't have to beat out Moore, they will carry 3 QBs, as they always have, and as nearly every team does, with 2 active on game day.
     
  22. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Its been a while since we've carried 3 QBs and I don't think many other teams do either.
     
  23. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was one game against a decent LSU team, a decent performance but obviously it wasn't enough to get the guy drafted by anyone else so its not that much. Look, I don't want to go after the kid or sound unimpressed, he looks like a good prospect, I'm looking forward to seeing him play. I just think the notion that he's even close to as good a prospect as Tannehill when he came out or better than a player like Tannehill who has performed at a high level for stretches in the NFL is way out there and unwarranted. Liking someone and thinking they could work out is fine but saying a totally unproven player from a lower division school is a better player already even before playing a snap in the NFL is just way, way out there. I know you didn't say that specifically but its been said and I think thats an absurd notion.
     
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  24. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If he wants to be suited up on Sundays he does. Look when you come in as a 7th round rookie you want to make the team. To make the team and be a part of it in anything other than a emergency role or practice squad role he has to beat out Moore for the backup role. If he does that I'd have to say he'd have looked great in camp and in the preseason because even beating out Moore is going to be tough for the kid.
     
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  25. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You're trippin' if you think they'd carry Tanny and a 7th round rookie as the only two QB's on the roster.
     
  26. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that. The other guy said we always carry 3 QBs on the 53 and that isn't true.
     
  27. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Doughty is a great story. So was Matt Moore, who wasn't even drafted back in 2007. And I remember when a bunch of guys were gushing over NDSU QB, Brock Jensen, a few off-seasons ago and posting the same sort of glowing endorsements.

    Here's a fun thread - http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...nsen-Brings-Championship-Pedigree-To-Dolphins

    Nothing against Doughty, but he's still got to earn a roster spot first. Let's start there. ;-)
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you know what, thats cool man, I hope your seeing something that I am not..the mental aspect of the position is critical, maybe your tuned into something..
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I actually think its taken Ryan longer than the norm to adapt to the speed at this level.
     
  30. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree but you have to admit he's been victimized by horrific coaching and one of the worst stretches of Oline play in the team's history. A lot of questions are going to be answered this year one way or the other with Tannehill, the excuses/reasons are gone now and its time for him to put it all together or for us to move on.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't think so at all. He had that pretty much right away even as a rookie when he never really looked overwhelmed. He had crap for weapons but was still productive, still won games, operated the offense he was used to operating. He could do that because his physical talent was good. Good arm, good spin, good throwing mechanics and accuracy (except for a tendency to lock his front leg at times), ability to run, good arm and accuracy while on the move. These are the weapons that allowed coaches to help make sure the speed of the game was never too much for him.

    What has taken a while is for him to develop his full game as a quarterback, and it shouldn't be surprising because he hadn't even done that in college. He was deficient as a quarterback even in college, didn't use the middle of the field well, didn't play well against good opponents, didn't really manipulate defenses with his eyes, etc. It wasn't as if he was playing a polished game in college, and then went to the NFL where the speed got faster and he took a while until he could play with the same polish against faster defenses. He never had it in the first place, and he's had to try and continue to slowly develop it over time. And he's had **** all for quarterback coaching to help him do that.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with that thats why the evaluation is so polarizing
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you quoted me talking about Doughty..but i know what your referring to.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's no blitzing in the game, its hard to come to any conclusions except that he didn't play that well against a non blitzing defense.

    When watching him play I often see him step strait back when pressure arrives, even if its just a couple steps, Id like to see him navigate thru some traffic better in forward motion and step into the pocket with much more frequency..That offense functions so fast, its like 1 read and throw it, sometimes i feel like when a play requires patience the whole thing breaks down.

    carreer 102 carries -285 negative yard-2.8 ypc..a bit scary to me, Those are rushing attempts which leads me to believe that it may be correlating to his propensity to step backwards in the face of pressure.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    those are really good points..I have said before that it would take longer for him considering what he came from in college, I thought it might be a little quicker, but those points make sense.. He's gonna be 28 years old before the season starts.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Except that Joe Bolden the middle linebacker blitzed anyway. As I just told you he did, and as can be plainly seen on the tape.

    He played well with the exception of that blitz play which was illegal. You say he did not play well. Can you explain this in a little more detail? Particular plays, throws, etc?

    Unlike the NFL, college statisticians lump sacks and the lost yardage associated with sacks in as run plays for negative yardage.

    In his last two seasons at Western Kentucky he was sacked 32 times for -243 yards. That means he ran 34 times for +69 yards. But that counts kneel-downs as run plays as well, and I believe you lose 1 yard each kneel-down. I found four of those in 2015 and four in 2014. So it's possible he ran more like 26 times for +77 yards.

    Either way it's clear he's not a scrambler.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Fixed it
     
  38. Man-U

    Man-U New Member

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    The sign of a pathetic fan. Oh so many do the Dolphins have.
     
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  39. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks for the insight.
     
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  40. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    because I watched him play. He understands the game on a level Ryan does not. I never stated that Tebow nor Sanchez was better then Ryan so your point it pointless.
     

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