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****The Official 2015-16 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by TiP54, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Are you arguing it hasn't been?
     
  2. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    I'm not an expert by any means - but seems like Ty Lue really screwed this one up. Asking guys to play a complicated style of defense they don't have the roster to play, and have never done. Guys are lost, and even if they weren't, I don't think they could play this, anyway.

    Taking away Curry and Klay is great, but can't give up a lay-up line to the bench guys.

    After Curry looking human and coming off an injury, I think I might've stayed home on everyone and made Curry beat you. He probably does, but make him score 40-50 every night and hope he wears down.

    90% chance it fails - but there's a 100% chance this strategy fails, so...
     
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  3. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    If you think THAT sentiment has anything to do with this season then I do not know what to tell you.
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    We'll see how close the Cavs can make the series these next two games. I still don't think they can win it, though maybe they can make it interesting for a bit. I was called a hater for it, but I just never believed they were a well put together team. I felt they had vulnerabilities that would be exposed against the West and that's what we've seen these first two games. People were fooled by their easy trip through the playoffs and the fact that it went 7 games last year. Anybody who believed that b/c they went 7 games last year that it would be closer if Kyrie and Love were healthy has a fundamental misunderstanding of basketball. It's a team sport and while those players may be better on an individual level, their defensive weaknesses created mismatch problems against good shooting teams that made the team worse.
     
  5. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I took GS in 6 @ +450 because why not. Not looking too good right about now.
     
  6. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    This shows the power of the media propagating that BS last year. You thought it went 7 games. When it went 6. Cavs were up 2-1 and then Golden State ran off three straight blowouts to win in 6.
     
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  7. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you trade Love and Kyrie, you ARE starting over, though. You're trading your second and third best players with the hope that whoever you bring in will fit better. It's also much easier said than done. What will you get for those guys? We don't know that yet, and we certainly cannot assume that they will be better than what they have.
     
  8. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I fully expect Game 3 to be one of those LeBron games where he just comes out and dominates. If he doesn't, then Cavs fans might have some real cause for concern. Not concern about the series, because it would obviously be essentially over at that point, but concern over the future because that might mean LeBron has already checked out.

    I do expect that he goes off, though, and if that is enough to get them the win (it might not be if Curry and Klay wake up) I anticipate all the talking heads saying Cleveland is back and it's a series once again. And while that is possible, I still think the longest this series goes is 6 games because while LeBron can do that kind of heavy lifting for some games, I just can't see him doing it 4 times while also getting sub-par production from the stars on the other end.
     
  9. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would think that there are teams that would give up quite a bit to get Kyrie, maybe Love too. Lebron needs some help from role players, not guys that need the ball for 20 secs a possession to make an impact.
     
  10. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would think there would be teams that want Kyrie and probably Love too, but would they give Cleveland a return that improves the team? You never know. And if he were simply surrounded by role players, I don't think that gets them over the hump. To win today you need multiple stars. He made it work in Miami with other stars, so it can be done. Maybe you get stars that don't dominate the ball, but you need guys that can take pressure off of LeBron and make plays when he's out of the game.
     
  11. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Here's a column I missed, but wished I had seen. There's a really salient point that Section brought up during last year's Finals, and many people dismiss because reasons:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15700317/toronto-exposed-cavaliers-weakest-link

    Last season, the Warriors were MORE worried that Irving and Love were out. FiveThirtyEight adds more to this:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kevin-love-and-kyrie-irving-got-eaten-up-against-the-warriors/

    Of course, if Kyrie wasn't also a dumpster fire on offense so far this series, the disparity wouldn't be this great. The Warriors probably only win by a combined +30 rather than +48 and you have to think he settles down offensively back home in Cleveland. The reality is, though, that Cleveland gives heavy minutes to two guys who are 'sky is falling' bad on P n' R defense and are up against a team whose bread, butter, grits, eggs, and afternoon tea are P n' R switches leading to easy offense. This is the biggest mismatch of opponents since Holyfield made the mistake of getting in the ring with Romney.
     
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  12. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I think the biggest question is, does it even matter if LeBron goes off. LeBron going off in last year's Finals was important because of his usage. LeBron's Usg% in last year's playoffs was the 5th highest since 1968 and was definitely higher if you just take the Finals. Last year, he used probably 40%+ of the Cavs' possessions in the finals. No way he gets back to that point. Lue would have to consciously choose to run LeBron ragged if he wanted the kind of impact necessary to steal multiple games.
     
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  13. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Really Lebron is probably hosed no matter what happens unless Golden State has a career ending injury to one of its top players or one departs via free agency, trade, etc. They are a better team than anything Cleveland could conceivably put together. I think if Lebron had stayed in Miami he'd still have no titles the last two years. Its easy to blast Cleveland or Lue (he deserves it though) but really GS is just a great, great team, one of the best ever and any team Lebron was on in the entire league would probably lose to GS. The only way I could see Lebron beating GS is if he went to OKC or San Antonio.
     
  14. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Right. I do think it's possible that LeBron goes off and they still lose.
     
  15. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe. And maybe I'm a Miami homer, but I think Pat Riley can find a way to at least give it a real shot. There were rumors that had LeBron stayed in Miami that not only would Deng have still signed there (for cheap), but that Pau Gasol also would have come to Miami. That alone gives them a real shot, and if you add the chance that Miami adds Whiteside to all of that, then that is a real powerhouse team even if Bosh is out. Joe Johnson also very likely would have been on board this year. Riley continues to find ways to add good players without real resources. When you add LeBron to the mix, the draw becomes even stronger.

    Also, like you said, San Antonio is an interesting option.
     
  16. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I think LeBron stays in Cleveland. For all the talk of 'winning' being his reason for exiting Miami, you can't undersell the money. He gets paid whatever he wants in Cleveland (so do his friends) and his endorsements and stature improved as well. I don't know if he gets that lifetime deal with Nike in Miami, but he certainly doesn't get another one outside of Cleveland. His marketability would be shot if he leaves Cleveland, tail between his legs, and admits that he's not a basketball superpower on the level that he portrayed himself. He would be openly admitting that he was in over his head, and he looks like a ****ty person and teammate if he leaves Love, Irving, and others holding the bag. Love, Smith, Shumpert, and Thompson all locked themselves into Cleveland on multi-year deals at the behest, or at the very least, on the idea of LeBron. If he leaves, that would be the ultimate ***** move, and be the death knell for his public stature. He recovered from Miami by winning and then calling it essentially a youthful indiscretion. His play and winning wouldn't matter anymore after that. LeBron's compensation off the court far outstrips his on-court compensation. That would take a nose dive if he leaves Cleveland.
     
  17. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's likely he stays in Cleveland for many of the reasons you outline. I think he'll make just as much money in Miami, though, and I think if he went back to Miami it wouldn't look as bad as if he went elsewhere because that is his other home. And if his legacy is what is most important, he will be looking to get as many rings as possible. It doesn't look like that is going to happen in Cleveland. It may not necessarily happen in Miami either, but I think the odds are better.
     
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  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    LeBron staying in Miami long-term was a pipe-dream IMO. I can't see him and Wade giving up so much money. His time in Miami benefited them greatly - it got Wade his Li-Ning deal, it changed the narrative around LeBron's career, and it gave LeBron the opportunity to see how a successful NBA organization operates. Those benefits lose value the longer he stayed.
     
  19. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Game three is a must win game for cleveland and lebron.
     
  20. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Was it? You guaranteed he was not leaving two summers ago.

    The benefits of winning rings never loses it's value if you're chasing history.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yeah - I still will hit the pipe this offseason if the possibility is there.

    We are talking about millions of dollars these guys would have to give away. How many players actually are giving away money to marginally improve their chances to win more rings?
     
  22. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd say that it's more than marginally, and he did it once before.
     
  23. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
    Ya think?
     
  24. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    At this point it will surprise me if Cleveland wins a game. The Dubs have yet to play all that great offensively; the two bigtime shooters haven't had huge impact; they're turning the ball over and losing at the FT line. And winning handily. It's nuts. Their on-ball defense deserves most of the credit, imo, and the role guys of course playing better at home.
     
  25. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    If Love and Kyrie are out/moved to the bench respectively, Cleveland will have a better shot. They're defensive liabilities who are drawing terrible matchups on both ends. Which would've been the case last season.
     
  26. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    That's not entirely true. Bron wanted Wade to stay with Jordan brand and was told to lobby Wade to take the $85mil deal they offered. Wade left for a subsidiary (LiNing) of one of the many Chinese entities that Micky Arison does business with.
     
  27. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hmm circumventing the salary cap?
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That may be the case, but IMO Wade would not have received the amount of money from Li Ning had LeBron not been in Miami.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Hell, Mario Chalmers got a shoe deal off the Big 3.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure. Obviously, none of us can know for certain, but I was in China in 2009 and I saw large building size posters of only three NBA players. The three players were Kobe Bryant, Yao Ming and Dwyane Wade. From talking to locals, those 3 players were far and away the most popular NBA players. I'm sure the 2012 Championship didn't hurt, but Wade was immensely popular there already.
     
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  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Idk about that, Micky Arison's influence definitely played. He does business with them. And every Miami Heat store sells Li Ning. Its one of those shoe deals that im shocked the league didnt get involved. Kind of like under the table money from Micky to Wade.
     
  32. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I forgot about that. Looking back again, the Dubs are 7-0 in last 7 games and 9-3 over the last 2 seasons against Cavs.
     
  33. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    No ****.
     
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  34. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I don;t see how that matters. LeBron is a big deal HERE. In China..the two biggest basketball stars are Kobe and Wade.
     
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  35. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    How can you say they arwnt far off but should trade one or both of their top players.
     
  36. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How else do they improve? You can trade players and improve your team with the right trade. Maybe if the salary cap goes up and they can get another piece or two that way they can keep the core intact but I think they need to get some better team defenders, they are getting exposed right now. They can still win the East with the team they have and maybe GS will have an injury or break down a little bit, who knows.
     
  37. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Only the 2nd game (and even then, they were only -3). They only had 9 turnovers in game one.

    And the Warriors have been playing very good offensively, just because Curry and/or Thompson haven't had an explosive game doesn't mean they (the Warriors) haven't played great. They're shooting over 50% from the field as a team, and averaging over 27 assists each game.

    Yes, they are losing at the FT line, but that is what happens when you get a ton of open looks and on the other end you play physical defense against a team trying to take it to the rim.
     
  38. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well I guess expecting a team to actually follow the rules is a bit much, my bad.
     
  39. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Now you're getting it .

    Sent from my SM-J500M using Tapatalk
     
  40. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    To be fair the Cavs are completely selling out to stop Klay and Curry so I don't think it's just a case of them having bad games - the Cavs are literally giving up lay-up drills to the rest of the team cuz they won't leave those guys.

    And Curry is STILL dominating.
     

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