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Dolphins rookie QB Brandon Doughty happy to return home to Miami/ Combine vid

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sceeto, May 7, 2016.

  1. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I went to and graduated from WKU. I was able to see a couple games of his a few years ago when he was a sophomore. I thought wow, that kid is good. Even though his stats (14 TD 14 INT 2857 yards) at that time were not that great, I saw what he could do. I made a point of trying to watch every game I could the next year cause I just saw something in him, had no idea he would put up stats like he did though in his jr year 49 TD 10 INT 4830 yards) After that year they had a meet and great in Louisville and I made a point of going to see him, wanted to see what he was all bout as a person. Came away really really impressed by who he is. Watched every single game and snap of his last year (sometimes rewatching games) and enjoyed the way he played and how he handled himself. I was able to watch him live in 3 or 4 games including their championship. I started really following him after his sophomore year reading everything I could. Since I was a WKU grad I heard extra things from friends that work on campus, the local newspaper, and WKU websites. but, quite honestly meeting him and talking to him that day in Louisville cemented my man crush on him. Genuinely a really nice, good guy and the QB of my favorite college team, and now NFL team :)
     
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  2. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Oh, that's awesome. I like listening to his interviews. Dude has a ton of passion and confidence. I hope he sticks.
     
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  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    his interviews are more serious now then they used to be. He has tightened them up since drafted, he used to be more loosy goosy, I think he feels that affected his status. There is a combine one you can watch that is example of what I mean, now he is more series in each interview. I don't know he made the change for that reason, but there is a difference. One interview he says who would have thunk it about being drafted, each interview since then has been, who would have thought it.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He's impressively self-aware that way. I was impressed particularly when I heard him discussing his weight gain from 2014 to 2015, how he did it because he needed to look more like an NFL prospect at the position, that he was too skinny before.

    You'd be surprised how many guys have an attitude that says I am who I am and if you don't think that's good enough then it's you who needs to change not me, because I know I'm good enough. That or they make the mistake of downplaying certain things and then finding out the hard way they were more important than they thought.

    One reason I like Doughty is because a year ago I liked another kid who dominated the Conference USA at the quarterback position, and he had some issues working against him very similar to Doughty in his build and the way he speaks. He did nothing to change those issues and he's in the CFL. I really wished he'd have done more, had more self-awareness, a higher priority on things that seem minor but may be bigger than you'd think. He didn't. But Doughty does.
     
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  5. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I was actually just about to ask you how they compared, being small school guys who put up some really good numbers.
     
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  6. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    to me they didn't really compare. I thought Doughty was the better QB. I know Cato had some great numbers, but his defenses were also really solid. Last year Doughty had a better defense, but the year before it was horrible.

    CK has a good point about Cato not doing much to make himself better, but his completion % in college was pretty bad. Less than 60% his final 2 years.

    Don't forget Chad Pennington was from Marshall and he did pretty good. "small" college "small" conference.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Doughty is a bit more consistent in his mechanics and accuracy. People criticized Cato's accuracy because of the completion percentage but that was a function of the offense. Rakeem Cato played in an offense more similar to Doughty's back in 2012, and sure enough he had a 70% completion. Thing is, even noting that, Doughty is more accurate and that doesn't reflect poorly on Cato because Cato's accuracy was good. You can count the number of purely missed throws on one hand every game for Doughty, even if he's throwing 40, 50 or even 60 passes in the game. Doughty's accuracy, or the consistency of his accuracy as you can think about it either way, is on par with elite level NFL quarterbacks. He's the most accurate quarterback in the draft. Doughty also shows more mastery of NFL play concepts, the playbook, play calling and defensive coverage. He's a far better communicator. He's more self-aware and grounded from a personality standpoint, doesn't seem to retreat inward and become unreadable to the people around him.

    On the other hand, Doughty has a bare fraction of the pure play-making ability that Rakeem Cato has in terms of physical awareness and presence, body control, agility, speed and the ability to make big time throws while running for your life. That was where Rakeem Cato was special. While the trait Doughty shares with elite level NFL quarterbacks is accuracy, the trait that Cato shares with elite level NFL quarterbacks is pure play-making ability under duress.

    Which do you take? I have a feeling that the size and personality issues represent the delta of impact, the reason one makes it and the other does not.
     
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  8. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I am loving this pick more and more. I've been watching a lot more of his games. As I've said before, his composure in the pocket is obvious. He's does not get rattled by pressure. He has great mechanics. He has touch and can throw with different velocities well. He can zip it or loft it, etc. He's great with the play action fakes and the pump fakes, etc.

    There is one play against Marshall where Doughty throws just a perfect ball, over the defender to the outside shoulder of the receiver for a strike near the sidelines. Check it out at around the 4:40 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwD9vyI15mI. There's obviously a ton of great plays in that game. That play is just special and a good example of his touch and accuracy. That's NFL s--t right there. Or check out the TD pass to Higbee in the endzone. That's at about the 5:30 mark. Amazing! ..between two defenders.

    Can you all really tell me that when you watch Goff or Wentz, you see much better or more advanced QBs? You don't. He seems to have a lot of Pro style skills. He's trained very well in the pocket and that's what is really going to make it long term in the NFL. Seems like a great prospect for Gase to work with and develop. Seems like his type of QB.

    P.S. I really wanted Higbee in the draft. He can be a great TE. Oh well.
     
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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Coordinator said he's picking up the system very quickly.
     
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  10. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I am having trouble finding more info on Brandon. Do you have the link or anything to read? I like that this is supposed to be an uptemp offense, he can run that easily.
     
  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, any of the "expert" reviews on him really didn't watch film. Many knocked him on the LSU game, but he threw over 300 yards 3 td's and 1 int... so how is that bad? AND that was in a literal monsoon with ankle deep water.

    Higbee would have been great pickup, his off field issue kinda hurt, but really glad Rams picked him up. He could be a total stud.
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I notice that. And it was interesting if a bit predictable the way he switched gears from talking about Doughty to Logan Thomas. He praises Doughty for picking up the system quickly, never looking lost, then asked about Logan Thomas and he pivots to his pure physical potential and the fact that his accuracy isn't where it needs to be yet, then goes on to mention the problem is they have five quarterbacks so too many to hand out proper snaps to. The way I read it, it sounded like he's basically saying we've got to get rid of one of these guys and Logan Thomas's physical potential and bad accuracy isn't doing it for him.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Wentz has more physical talent, that much is clear. And he's persistently rumored to be a genius in the classroom (though not necessarily on the field). So I get why the "ceiling" guys are all over him. Goff probably has a tiny bit better of an arm than Doughty, but the difference is marginal. He's faster too, but again the difference is marginal. Otherwise they had virtually the same performance level but Goff did it at Pac-12 level while Doughty did it at CUSA level...so that's why one goes #1 overall and the other goes in the 7th round.

    I don't know that I would've drafted any of these QBs in the 1st round unless I had a mid to late 1st round pick and absolutely nothing good at my QB position, and even then I'd make it clear publicly and privately that we're not hitching our wagons to this pick, we may draft another one in the 1st round next year. Just get it out there immediately and let everyone criticize the sentiment all they want.

    As for the throw you mentioned, I think it does show that he has the ability to make all the throws. He's got a number of throws like that. But his consistency on velocity is not what it is on accuracy. Here's an example, something I posted in Club about a month ago:

    He doesn't have the pure arm to maintain compelling velocity in situations where he's got bodies in his face. Believe it or not, a lot of guys in the NFL do. They can throw all arm and still torque that ball to 50+ mph on a throw of that size. I'm pretty sure I've seen Luck achieve that velocity while literally no part of his body was touching the ground because he was falling. So there are arm limitations on Doughty that show up in the consistency of his velocity which isn't 100%. Lucky for him the consistency of his accuracy is among the highest I've seen.
     
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  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Two more while we're on the subject of arm strength. Deep ball and arm strength are often taken as synonymous but they're not. Chad Pennington was a very good deep ball thrower because his timing and accuracy were impeccable. Nonetheless there is a pretty large component of the deep ball that is pure arm strength, particularly BECAUSE of the timing component involved, and I demonstrate that in the first of these posts below:

    (again things I posted in Club about a month or so ago)

    The timing aspect is all-important. The more time the ball takes to get where it needs to be, the further a full speed receiver will get down the field. The further he gets down the field, the further a QB needs to throw the ball. The further the ball goes, the longer it takes to get there, which gives the receiver even more time to run, and so on and so forth. That's why slight imperfections in the timing can quickly multiply into big problems in the efficiency of the connection.

    The point I was trying to make is that the ability to lay the football out without an extra gather step positively affects the timing of a deep ball. The ability to keep the ball at a good pace (doesn't "lose energy" or "float" as a Greg Cosell would say), also affects the timing aspect of the deep ball. Most NFL quarterbacks (who are actively screened for arm strength) have these abilities. I believe Brandon Doughty does as well, even if it's not quite on par with a Matt Stafford or Joe Flacco.

    I think of arm strength issues in terms of, "you must be this tall to ride this ride"...and after that, marginal increases in arm strength do not necessarily translate efficiently into marginal increases in NFL performance. I feel like, based on a thorough evaluation of a wide array of his throws, Doughty meets the prerequisites.

    That should give him the foundation from which he can build success off his uncommon accuracy. And if his performance versus pressure and total handle of every aspect of the offense at WKU were not flukes, then those could be differentiating factors as well. His arm strength will not keep him from differentiating himself on those bases.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I watch the all the interviews on miamidolphins.com...clyde christenson is the one you want..he's a really good listen as well.
     
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  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I see two differentiating factors in favor of Brandon Doughty:

    1. Accuracy, or to define that, the consistency of mechanics which produce consistent on target passes. He can throw 40, 50 or even 60 passes in a game, including deep balls, and you can count the number of purely off-target, uncatchable passes on one hand at the end of the day. The ball goes where he wants it to go. If the receiver is open, the ball will be there. This is one among a few key factors that consistently differentiates elite NFL quarterbacks. However, I should note that I separate this factor from ball placement, which I believe to be a little different. You can consistently put the football where you meant it to go and still have poor ball placement. I think Joey Harrington was an example of that. Contrarily, you can miss a higher percentage of passes and still exhibit great ball placement on the on target passes. I'm not saying Doughty has poor ball placement. I'm saying that the consistency of his mechanics which produce catchable footballs at an elite rate, is more of a standout aspect of his game than his ball placement. There's definitely a correlation between consistent accuracy and consistent ball placement, but it's not a perfect correlation. They're not synonymous.

    2. Command of the field. I am tempted to put his ability to handle pressure here as a differentiating factor because his pressure numbers on a PFF basis are extremely compelling (most compelling in the class, as a matter of fact), but that would gloss over the fact that he doesn't have the natural play-making ability you saw from a Rakeem Cato, or that you see from an Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson. Those guys have kinesthetic awareness and control that allows them to do very impressive things when in live fire situations, scrambling and making ridiculous throws. Doughty isn't hopeless this way but ultimately he's a 5.1 or 5.2 athlete. You have to go to the root of the reason he was so good with pressure at Western Kentucky, and the reason was his complete command of the offense and defense, knowledge of where his hot reads were, etc. He didn't hold onto the football for long amounts of time (which is something I overlooked in Brandon Weeden, for example). He got the ball out quickly where it needed to go, and when there was pressure he knew where he could dump the ball off for some yardage. This command aspect of his game is something Lance Zierlein brought up during the draft coverage when they talked about Doughty going off to Miami. He knew every nuance of that Western Kentucky offense and his total and complete command of it was impressive. Now of course he's going to learn a new offense, so we'll see.

    There's lots of little stuff, ball spin, pocket presence, foot mechanics, arm mechanics, ball placement, ability to use his eyes to manipulate the defense, clutch factor, deep ball timing, touch, competitiveness, etc. But those are the high level factors that differentiated him and could help him the most.
     
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  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I watched every throw he made in every game last year. Every game at least 1 to 3 times he would hit the deep ball. If he missed it was WOW he missed as opposed to wow he completed one. It seemed really rare when he missed.

    as far as catchable balls he got a lot of YAC from the receivers.

    I was thinking of this offense and who the team brought in and have, they remind me of a lot of guys Doughty played with in the skill positions.
    Drake reminds me of Ace Well the WKU RB,
    Carroo reminds me of Dangerfield WR, who was picked up by the Saints, a real physical WR
    Grant reminds me of Taylor WR who had like 17 TD's last year and is speed WR
    Duarte reminds me of Higbee TE who was also a former WR and kills the seam.

    Along with a quick temp, this offense seems built to Doughty's strengths.
     
  18. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I kind of see that on certain throws that get away from him.

    Yeah, you posted those plays and a lot more. I just happened to be watching it at the time and they are great passes.

    Agree on the QBs.
     
  19. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen him miss on the first pass and realize he needs to get more on the pass (on the same route) the next time, which he does and thus completes the play.
     
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  20. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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  21. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Gase commented on Doughty today, said and I'm paraphrasing here, "[w]hat's interesting about him is he has some kind of knack for finding the open guy. You can go back and look at film and he's throwing somewhere other than where he's supposed to go and you ask him, 'why'd you go there?', he says, 'he was open'", so he just has this knack for completions".
     
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  22. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Logan Thomas waived. Apparently Gase likes what he's seen in Doughty.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The interesting thing about the obvious Marino parallels involved in this interaction is how Marino himself was indeed instrumental in Doughty's evaluation.
     
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  24. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...-gase-update-video-20160616-premiumvideo.html

    that is the clip about Brandon.
     
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  25. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    it sounds to me like Gase says "he is like a magician."
     
  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You can take the Marino comparison a bit further, when Walsh was interviewing Marino, Walsh was putting forth scenarios, of what would do here if you see this and so forth, and Marino said, "I just hit the open guy".
     
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  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Would be great if Doughty could provide legit competition at the position and/or be an adequate backup.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
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  28. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Gase also touched on something that CK had wrote about before, about Doughty's study habits, Gase mentioned at the beginning about Doughty's "knowledge of the offense", so as CK had suggested on earlier posts, Doughty is obviously studying hard and absorbing the offense.
     
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  29. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    yeah, he is study freak for sure. I know some of his "date" nights with his then girlfriend were going over the playbook at WKU. I am sure it is the same now.

    There was like an extra pleased surprised expression in how Gase was describing the situation too. I liked that.

    I'm pretty sure I pointed out the study habits before ;)
     
  30. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That is what I was referring to when I said the conversation draws obvious parallels to Marino. Dan was notorious for his "find the open guy" philosophy of throwing the football. He could see the field so well and deliver such perfect throws that it often didn't matter if he threw it where the coach would've thought it should go based on the coverage.

    It also reminded me of something Alen Dumonjic wrote about Eli Manning's performance when he beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl the last time. I believe there was a throw down the left sideline to Mario Manningham that was really instrumental on the game-winning drive, big play, big throw, big catch, etc. Not necessarily like that one catch the receiver got on the other side of the defender's helmet (forget his name already) in the first Super Bowl where the Giants beat the Patriots, but it was a big play. Alen (who is in coaching now I believe) wrote about how Eli didn't necessarily throw that ball to the most correct receiver on that play. But he had the right feel for the game, the right feel for the coverage and his player, and delivered a perfect ball, and sometimes that's exactly what you need from your QB to win big.

    Anyway I loved the note from Gase. It was an affirmation of Brandon Doughty's main peculiarity as a college quarterback, which was his ridiculous penchant for some how, some way, delivering a football onto the hands of a receiver. It wasn't just that he rarely misfires on throws. But it also wasn't necessarily because his ball placement is pinpoint. His completion plus drops, especially if you account for things like throwaways, pressure, etc...really just off the charts. And his system was not as reliant on screens as many systems out there in college, so that's not the reason. He threw deep quite a bit.

    A lot of that ridiculous penchant for delivering the football to the hands of a receiver has to be a feel for the game, ability to read the defense and find the open guy. It's not just accuracy. That's why I often substitute talking about Doughty's consistent mechanics and delivery rather than being lazy and talking about "accuracy". To me, "accuracy" will also encompass ball placement...and Doughty's ball placement wasn't the best I've seen. But the aspect about his accuracy that is among the best I've seen is just his pure ability to be so consistent in his mechanics, targeting and delivery, that he rarely misfires the ball. I mean you hardly ever in a game see throws where the ball just goes too wide, too high, or hits the turf before it can get to the receiver. You can count those instances on one hand even if he's throwing 50 or 60 balls in a game with plenty of deep throws.
     
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  32. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Often the offense would not take off until they stopped throwing those screens, I would be like just throw the damn ball down field. When they would start throwing the ball downfield in a game the offense would just slaughter the defense.
     
  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    That was David Tyree btw, that made the helmet catch.

    I've always debated myself and others on what was more incredible on that play, Manning escaping what seemed to be inescapable, or the ridiculous helmet catch, truly one of the most miraculous plays in not only SB history, but in NFL history imo.
     
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  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    No debate IMO.. the helmet catch is unique (as far as I know, and certainly no other example that was that important) while many QB's have escaped like that.

    Personally, my favorite NFL play of all time is this (the "Wrong Way Run"):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1UZy7SSdDI
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Weren't there several olineman blatantly holding on that play, which allowed him to escape?
     
  36. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I would absolutely love it if he could become Ryan's backup, at least through his rookie contract and then hopefully beyond. He seems perfectly suited to it.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Would save the Dolphins quite a bit of money if he could assume that role this year and hold it his entire rookie contract like Tyrod Taylor did in Baltimore.
     
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  38. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Marino seems to really like Doughty.
     
  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Must be amazing to be able to work with your idol like that.
     
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  40. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    They're trashing him over at FH.
     
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