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****The Official 2015-16 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by TiP54, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Not against reuniting Noah and Horford
     
  2. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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  3. biggiesmalls3k1

    biggiesmalls3k1 ZT = H.O.F. Club Member

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    So Durant has begun Trolling, started following Heat owner Mickey Arison on Twitter. So it begins...
     
  4. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Portland and Miami (currently) are the best basketball situations for him, but the "Tax thing" may not matter to Him..but it sure will matter to Sean Kennedy, who will be negotiating his first Max contract. trust me, an Agent WILL "massage" a client toward where he can make up to 500k more in commission.
     
    rafael likes this.
  5. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think it's trolling necessarily. I'm certain we'll get a meeting
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Which means the Heat have to offer the same amount of money as Portland, as opposed to what we had previously been pondering where the Heat could offer a contract reduced to the point that the "real" money (after taxes) would be the same, and therefore he'd choose the Heat by default. That idea seems out the window now.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Still wonder if Pat Riley could switch gears entirely on Hassan, pull kind of an "Olay" on him and go hard for Durant with the idea of putting Bosh back at the five position. That could entice Luol Deng to stay (for cheap money) with the promise of playing the four position more often, which seemed to really invigorate him.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see Micky on KD's Twitter
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I would expect that if Whiteside were to see the basketball situations as even that the expected massaging by the agent would push things towards the side that makes him more money. Whiteside may not care (or possibly understand) about the taxes. If he sees the basketball side as even, he'll probably rely on whatever the agent says is the better financial deal. I doubt that the taxes aren't a consideration. I think they're just not what Whiteside will focus on.
     
  10. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    No. the Taxes apply MORE in this case, since the commissions will originate from the state the checks are paid out from.

    In the Dallas case, yes, they will have to match. Portland is up ****s creek IMO.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So you think Miami will offer less money than Portland and that Whiteside will take it on the basis of the taxes making the contracts equal, even though Hassan's "friend" specifically said that isn't going to happen?
     
  12. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Would think Heat could sell him on $ value of winning & their relationships with sponsors -


    Flip-side he might think going to a team where he's a bigger focal point on offense would help him there more.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The problem is you guys keep assuming equal offers with therefore one team offering him more after-tax money. You keep using terms that imply MORE money from Miami because of lack of taxes.

    But that's not what we're talking about.

    I'm saying that you could've argued before, and in fact we did argue, that Miami could offer LESS money and it would be viewed as an equivalent contract offer to a team that operates in a state with income taxes. Hassan Whiteside's friend is basically saying that's not going to happen because if Hassan gets traded from the no-tax state to a state with income tax, all he's left with is a contract that pays him less. This is actually a very logical position to take, though a bit paranoid. Yes your $19 million in Florida may be the equivalent of $22 million in Oregon (I have no idea what the real figures are, it doesn't matter), but if halfway through the contract I get traded from Florida to New York, I'm ****ed because I have a $19 million (instead of $22 million) contract AND state taxes. Logically speaking, that potential is worth something. So Miami's real money (after tax) offer actually has to beat Portland's.

    I don't even know if this is up for argument, unless you believe Hassan's friend lied to the Herald (which is possible).
     
  14. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Cleveland got bailed out by Lebron no doubt about it but Lebron went the Finals two years in a row and they've won a title, you can't really 2nd guess a ton of their moves the last 2 years.
     
  15. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats interesting. Don't hear too much about his mother these days....
     
  16. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    A no-trade clause or other alternatives would alleviate that concern pretty easily. I don't believe that the statement from Whiteside's friend changes anything. I think that Whiteside's focus is going to be on which place is the best basketball fit and that he'll most likely and logically rely on his agent to tell him if there's any differences or concerns on the financials/contracts side. So if his agent or financial advisor tells him that a contract pays him the same or even slightly more in real money due to the relevant taxes that he'll listen to this person. So Whiteside will not focus on or care about the tax situation at this point. He'll focus on where he wants to play. Then he'll focus rely on the people he trusts on the financials. If he's told that both contracts pay him the same in real money then he'll listen to that.
     
  17. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Yes. because the money is equal. and remember, the rate of raise in Miami is 7.5% and it;s 4.5% elsewhere.

    If you start at the full max, it means that Miami over 4 years, will pay Hassan $4 million more on raises alone. Miami value in $$ for 4 year deal is $96.2mil. Elsewhere is $92.2mil.

    On raises ALONE....his agent if he is capped at 3%, has to leave $120,000.00 on the table in commissions if he goes to Portland.
     
    rafael likes this.
  18. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Why? the offer is the offer. it is taxed in it's entirety (even on the commission, which makes it IMO, a flaw in the the Tax code).

    Portland in this case, has to beat the Miami Offer to make up the shortfall. The rate of raises, allows the Heat leeway.
     
  19. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    In other words...Miami has $4mil to play with over the 4 years, BEFORE Taxes. So Portland has No chance whatsoever to beat a Miami Offer, Unless Miami goes so far under market that it just makes this all moot.

    If Dallas and Miami (teams with same Tax advantages) go Dollar for Dollar ALL IN...Miami's contract is worth $4 million more.
     
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  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Exactly and good point about the raises. A lower contract in Miami would still mean more real money for Whiteside and his agent. Whiteside may not care about the taxes now, but I'm sure it would be explained to him. The primary factor is where does he want to play, but if it's Miami then Miami can give him a lower contract that pays Whiteside more money than Portland on the basis of the raises and taxes and more than Dallas on the basis of raises.
     
  21. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    I know this has been covered, so I apologize -

    But how does Miami have to do this so they don't lose Whiteside but still get a shot at Durant? Is there any worry that waiting for Durant to decide could cost Hassan?
     
  22. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Exactly. Miami has a Built in $4 million dollar advantage. It's a finger on the scale in a bidding war. There can;t be a bidding war.
     
  23. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    There is a Moratorium. Nobody can sign anything for 6 days after July 1st. there is time, and Cell Phones.
     
  24. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I can't recall if you explained this or not. Can Miami sign Whiteside at a near max and Durant to a max (1+1) deal now along with Wade at some reasonable amount? Does it depend upon whether or not Bosh returns?
     
  25. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    it's tight and near impossible without dumping McBob, but they have a plan.

    If Bosh does not return..then the Heat is LOADED for next season's offseason while returning this year's team at the same salaries (Wade at $20mil) and maxing HW.
     
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  26. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    So it goes like this if you are OUT of this year's FA class:

    Bring back the same team at same salaries (pay Wade another $20mil), Max out Hassan. Play with $10mil to improve the team. Play with $15mil if you dump McBob. NEXT YEAR, you got near a Max and you then revisit with Wade then, and you got the FULL MAX for Durant or Westbrook...or CURRY..etc....

    This is a TWO year process. Team is DONE with major improvements via FA next year, one way or another.
     
  27. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Report that GS will target Whiteside, Horford and Batum if they don't get KD
     
  28. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    I'd be devastated if we lost Hassan, not gonna lie. Especially to freakin Dallas.
     
  29. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    They could've had a ton of space next year for what is probably a better FA class. And I think they'd have to lose one of Iggy/Bogut and Livingston/Ezeli to pull off any of these deals.

    There might be quite a bit more turn over there than we expect.
     
  30. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    that is not a very sound plan, when you have to jettison Barnes, Iggy and Bogut BEFORE you sign Durant. Durant says...no...you trade those three guys for Whiteside or Horford, or Batum?
     
  31. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    Gentleman, seeing as the talk has turned towards the new basketball year, when does the official NBA year begin so we can start a new thread?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  32. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    New Year starts June 30.
     
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  33. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    I'm a Cavs fan, I ain't never leaving this season.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We're not on the same page here. Doesn't matter.

    Either way, the statement by Hassan's friend shows that Miami will not get the discount it otherwise could have because Hassan is worried about the possibility of being traded sometime down the road. I don't consider that up for debate unless you're saying the friend is lying or doesn't know what he's talking about which I admit is VERY possible. We have no idea who this "friend" is or how reliable. I'm just saying IF we take what he said as a given then it impacts Miami's ability to get away with an engineered contract that is the same in "real" dollars as whatever the Blazers offer. Yes I'm accounting for the higher rate of raises Miami can give compared with Portland. Yes I'm accounting for the taxes and even those to be paid off the agent's fees.
     
  35. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You didn't understand. Not an "Engineered" contract. A Dollar for Dollar contract. Which blows a Blazers offer out of the water in real cash. About $2 more Miami Dollars per year.

    In Dallas's case it becomes $1mil more per year.

    and Engineered contract is around $18mil per. I am talking about going ALL THE WAY to the FULL MAX. ($21.2mil per starting)
     
  36. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you fully expect them to land a big fish this year or next?
     
  37. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    are the rumors true.. are the wizards offering Noah 120 million for 4 years? What the hell?
     
  38. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    For John Wall's sake and as some1 in the Wizards market I pray that this is not true.
     
  39. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    finfansince72 likes this.
  40. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    That wouldve beaten SVG giving Rashard Lewis a max contract by a landslide as the worst contract in nba history.

    Right up there with Carmelo getting the max.
     

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