1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Doughty love

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolphin25, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If that were the case...I think that would be something he could explain to Gase.

    Personally.....maybe its just me thinking this because Im rooting like hell for this kid....(come on....raise your hand if you remember playing football with your friends and imagining you were Dan Marino. Doughty grew up a direhard Dolfan...hes living our dreams).....

    But if hes getting progressions wrong...and making completions just because he senses which receiver is open....????

    Im keeping that kid. Because whats it going to be like when all the sudden he does get his progressions right....and he still has that sense for where a WR is open?

    To me thats the kid you hang on to....thats the kind of rare rock that could go from a 7th round pick to a great starter someday.
     
    resnor and Finster like this.
  2. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

    5,257
    1,725
    113
    Apr 28, 2008
    Well, he's seeing something that cues him in, whether he can articulate it or not. I mean he's not pulling a mental telepathy thing; he has to be recognizing something. I guess that's the "anticipation" thing Pennington was so gifted at.
     
    Finster likes this.
  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    Doughty himself says he senses it.
     
  4. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    Who is to say what progression is right? I mean the coaches set it up obviously, but isn't the objective to complete the pass and get a first down? I think i would say just keep doing what you are doing :) obviously the knows the plays or he would not be able to sense things.
     
    Finster likes this.
  5. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

    5,257
    1,725
    113
    Apr 28, 2008
    Oh come on. QB throws by psychic connection? Is that what you're saying?

    He's seeing something he either can't, or won't, articulate. Maybe he's noticing a slight lack of effort or a miscue by a DB and processes it super quickly, but he has to be seeing something. In that sense, he's "sensing" it, because he notices something that's observable and it's definitely a talent, but he's not using psychic powers to find an open receiver.
     
    cuchulainn and ckparrothead like this.
  6. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    again he says he senses it, that is how he describes it. perhaps that is the best way he knows how to describe it. I would not describe as a psychic connection. But, I get what he means by sensing it. When I play baseball I can often sense where the batter will hit the ball. It is not a psychic thing, but a understanding of the batters stance, the way he is being pitched, the count, an understanding of the variables. No one says he is using psychic powers, not sure how you came up with that one.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Strange phenomenon, knowing the playbook and being able to deliver the football to open receivers on time but screwing up the progression. I thought the progressions are structured the way they are to help the QB keep his sense of timing.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Just threw his first interception of camp.

    Ball bounced right out of Matt Hazel's hands in the end zone, intercepted by James Burgess.

    Threw another touchdown to Jakeem Grant though, Grant just too fast for Ifo Ekpre-Olomu to keep up with. So that should've been two TDs.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    I thought Gase structured things to fit the player?

    Shouldn't they be looking at HOW Doughty progresses through his reads, and structure the reads accordingly, instead of trying to force him to go through his reads in a way that is unnatural to him?
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I don't think it works like that. There isn't necessarily a rhyme or reason to why he's getting them wrong. Plus Tannehill is the starter. You're not going to re-structure the playbook for the third string quarterback.
     
    resnor and number21 like this.
  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    but what makes the wrong? I mean i thought positive results were good. I get the if 1 is not open 2 should be, if not 3 should be, but if you see 3 open NOW, why not throw it there first?
     
  12. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    I'm not saying restructure the playbook, just his progressions, the plays should be flexible enough to do that, if he does have a pattern, which I'm just assuming, but in all likelihood he does have a pattern.
     
  13. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

    5,257
    1,725
    113
    Apr 28, 2008
    Which is what I said: he may not be able to articulate it, but he has to be seeing something.

    Because when I made the comment previously that he had to be "seeing" something, you responded with "he says he senses it" as if in refutation, and the put up the Orlando Sentinal video (that I'd seen previously and he says something to the effect of sensing the open guy). To "sense" something he has to see, hear, smell, taste, or feel by touch. Those are the senses. I immediately rejected his being able to "hear, smell, taste, or feel by touch" an open receiver, so that leaves only sight and seeing something. If you reject that he's seeing something that cues him as to who's open, then he has to be perceiving it by some sense other than the five senses the rest of us operate with. That is referred to as having "psychic" abilities.
     
    cuchulainn, resnor and Steve-Mo like this.
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Progressions aren't about looking at a specific receiver to see if he's open. More often they involve a progression from reading one defender to the next, and what you read those defenders to be doing is key in making the decision which guy is going to be open and how you need to throw the football. More often in the NFL you have these two-man route combinations that are attempting to play monkey-in-the-middle with a certain defender. Then you read that defender and it dictates where you go with the ball. But before you even get there you might be making a middle of the field (they call it MOF) read which can dictate which route combination you're going to work.

    These progressions are set up to avoid making mistakes and throwing interceptions. What Gase is saying right now is he just has no idea what in the hell Doughty just read on the play or in what order, based on his eyes and head during the play.
     
    cuchulainn, Steve-Mo and Fin D like this.
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    It doesn't work like that.
     
    number21 and resnor like this.
  16. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

    2,476
    1,128
    113
    Mar 21, 2013
    Making pizza tonight in honor of all the Doughy Love.

    [video=youtube_share;nfxpwbWBNuU]https://youtu.be/nfxpwbWBNuU[/video]
     
    ckparrothead and dolphin25 like this.
  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    I never rejected that he is seeing something that cues him as to who is open.

    I said he said he senses it because that is what he said. He sees the field and thus senses who will be open.
     
  18. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    Did you see the one clip where he says he knows the playbook? His reaction was like, yeah I got that down pat. he also goes on to say he understand what the defense is trying to do to stop it. So he knows both offense and has an understanding of what the defense will counter with. Impressive.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Gonna get d25 a present.

    [​IMG]
     
    Limbo likes this.
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Incidentally this is what I would imagine to be on the cover of the British romance novel, "Doughty Love"

    [​IMG]
     
    Pandarilla and Silverphin like this.
  21. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    Actually it does, because Doughty is going through his own progressions, and it's working, he just is not going through the progressions they want him to, so obviously it does work like that, they just have to conform their progressions to him.

    Gase has talked about only asking his QBs to make throws that they throw well, so obviously he conforms his offense to the players, this is really no different than that.
     
  22. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    and I still don't totally understand the progression thing. At what point and time do you throw it to the open receiver? It sounds like Doughty is throwing it to the open receiver, so not sure where the issue is. I would hate for Doughty to say dang I need to do those progressions and start losing those completions.
     
    Finster likes this.
  23. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,843
    10,283
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    I'm not the expert by any means but I think ..The issue with the progressions is that Gase has his offense that he wants implemented and a rookie or anyone new to the system has to learn to play Qb the way he wants them to play Qb. It sounds like Doughty is kind of playing backyard football which might be ok at times but Gase might not be comfortable with putting his offense in the hands of someone that doesn't do what he wants to do. Guys like Romo, Farve, Marino, etc. made great careers out of going off script at times so its not a horrific trait or anything but maybe Gase doesn't want a guy doing that. Who knows its still too early to predict anything about anyone yet.
     
    Finster likes this.
  24. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    it is interesting. the plays are still Gases plays and Doughty is making them work, just not the way Gase thought they would or could. I think I would be concerned about a coach that only wanted his plays to be successful in one way.
     
    Finster likes this.
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I think you're letting your mancrush on Doughty get in the way of understanding what Gase is saying.

    Of course a coach will be concerned if a QB is not operating the offense the way it's designed, when practicing. Who knows what will happen in a game. That being said, I haven't seen the coaches say anything really negative about this, only that they don't understand what he's doing.
     
  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    It's true, they have been more positive than negative in what they've said about Doughty, the only real negative has been saying that his progressions are wrong.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    The progressions are what they are for a reason and they're dictated entirely by the play's design and the defense that is being executed against it. The notion that you would change them to something unsafe with timing that doesn't match the routes being run is absurd. Like hey, I'm going to check off this read before the defender is actually being put in play, and then I'm going to progress to this defender after the routes being run against him are already past their window, just because that's something unique to me as a quarterback and you should just rubber stamp it because everything I do is automatically right.
     
    resnor likes this.
  28. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    but I wonder what makes them wrong? I mean as in an understanding of what and why the want the progressions a certain way. Again, I would think seeing the open guy and making a connection would be best. Even with progressions you are assuming the defense is going to react exactly in a certain way.

    And I agree I don't hear them saying it is a negative exactly.
     
  29. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    I think you may be exaggerating the situation a bit, because Doubty IS going through the progressions wrong, but is achieving success.

    Marino, as well as some other QBs, also had their "own" progressions which did not match with the "text book" progressions of the O, something I often quote(paraphrase), is when Bill Walsh was interviewing Dan, Walsh was asking about progressions and Dan says, "coach, I just look for the open guy and hit him."

    Progressions are 1, 2, 3 etc receiving target orders, as in looking to this guy first, this guy 2nd and so forth, no one is asking for the play to be changed, or to make stupid decisions. If you're running the same play, and 1 guy follows the proper progressions, and the other guy is not, but is achieving more success, which one is right?

    All I'm suggesting is that perhaps they can see how Doughty is going through his progressions, find a method to the madness, and adjust the progressions accordingly, without changing the play, so as to not disrupt the rhythm he already has.
     
  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    He is simply not going through the 1, 2, 3 etc, order, he is doing, for example, 3, 1, 2, or some such, looking at the 3rd receiver in the progression 1st, but as you say, does it even matter much if he is getting completions.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    People are overreacting.

    Progressions as the QB are important for game time situations. QB X maybe really good at anticipating who is going to be open when the team is in shorts going half speed in practice when the defense knows what's going to happen. Its likely a different story in an actual game.

    You don't practice for when things are going exactly as you want them to. You practice for when things go to ****. Understanding progressions by play are important for a QB, especially a young one, so that they have a tool to counter the times when stuff goes bad.

    Besides, QB X may have feel for anticipating when a receiver is open four Sundays in a row, but maybe he's off (like happens to everyone from time to time) on the 5th, wouldn't it be nice if he could fall back on his progressions till he's back in the grove?
     
    resnor likes this.
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yeah, Dan threw "to the open guy." However, how can you be looking at let's say, your third read, before seeing your first read? Plays are designed to mess with defenses. You shouldn't have a third read open without the first two being covered, but you shouldn't even be looking at the third option before checking the first two. If you see the third option first, wouldn't that mean you didn't check the first two?
     
  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    Yes, and that's what Gase is saying, but Doughty may have something catch his eye about the 3rd option as the ball is being snapped, or on his dropback, that brings his attention there 1st, and Gase is also saying that he may be looking at the 4t option next, then the 1st option, because Gase has said that Doughty will go wrong, wrong, wrong and then complete the pass.

    It may be a visual "instinct" thing for Doughty, there may be no rhyme or reason to it, or it may be that he's just an oddball, one of those guys that just processes things differently than most, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out in preseason.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  34. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,843
    10,283
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    Its actually nice to have a backup Qb that is worth watching in the Preseason games, he should at least make things interesting.
     
    cuchulainn and Finster like this.
  35. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    Finster and Life_is_precious like this.
  36. Life_is_precious

    Life_is_precious Banned

    2
    7
    0
    Aug 14, 2016
    Everyone said that last year too and we all know how that went.
     
  37. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    I am very thankful we have Doughty, because if we didn't I'd be beside myself for us not drafting my guy Prescott, who basically had a flawless first go.
     
  38. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    Fin-O likes this.
  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Doughty looks to be a gamer, hoping he makes the team and makes Moore expandable to the next team who suffers a QB injury.
     

Share This Page